[MMO] Rift - Discussion

[crownjules]

Got 5-6 hours of playing time in on the weekend's free trial. I split that between a rogue and a cleric. The game is definitely slick and well polished - one of the better MMO releases in awhile. But I didn't get the feeling that the core gameplay is any different from WoW or its clones. The spirit trees really just specialize your character into what are essentially base classes in other MMORPGs (Hunter, Shaman, Warlock, etc) or serve to be talent trees.

That being said, I did like some of the ways they have tried to address the whole healing isn't fun aspect (my Cleric was a Justicar/Druid/Warden). I might give it another month of subscription, at least to explore their world since it did seem interesting.

 

[CVSiN]

Wow... after the nerfs I just cant find anything I like about my rogue at all..
tried several different combos and just cant get back into it without bard.

 

[lupi]

just logged in and still have free time on mine.

still not sure about the soul thing, seems like it could be neat but not sure yet if I 100% like it. also thought I read somewhere about changing your sould line up with the push of a button, or something very similar to that. assuming that ability comes much later?

only at L15 now and did die about 6 times, but all was while closing rifts with L19 mobs. Do have a bunch of artifcats and rift drops already. also did some pvp above the point that I hit the trial pvp point limit and snagged the pvp quest weapon reward from 5 victories.

to me the game seems a bit of a cross between lotro and wow. played mostly on my comp with the e6600, so it's a bit cpu limited for the gpu card and only played at high settings with low 30 FPS. would be interesting to see how much better it looks with a setup able to go to highest setting.

 

[skace]

Veliko, comparing health bars to threat numbers is ridiculous. First off, there isn't any visible way short of death to know when to heal a player, there are ways of solving this issue however no developer has taken them on yet. For instance, we could add visible damage models to players and in which case we could ultimately agree that you could get rid of health bars and utilize a much more realistic visible damage model. I know there would be many healers that would bitch about this, but also a few who would be excited in the possibility of trying to gauge how hurt a player is by how visibly damaged their character is.

However, there are other methods of determining our threat generation. As we play the game, we should be picking up queues from the monsters as to how our spells affect them, when we steal aggro, how difficult it is to get aggro back, etc. Once the player reaches end game, they should have a significant amount of information already created about how their class plays the game and generates hate. Most of these concepts are pretty basic, how much damage or health a specific spell does usually directly correlates to how much hate it generates.

The beauty however, of not having the numbers pop up in your face, is that once players get beyond those basic principles, a lot of theorizing begins to surface on how xyz spell works and interacts. A lot of this stuff can be a lot of fun, especially when the game hides it's math well enough that players can never fully be sure of how a specific spell works. Ultimately, the further you get from the direct math that runs the game, the more magic becomes "magic" and not an excel spreadsheet.

 

[smackababy]

This threat meter argument is funny. No, GOOD players don't require addons to raid. However, the majority of players are neither good nor ready for end game content. Therefore, addons give them a much needed handicap because advice always falls on deaf ears. If Trion wants the majority of players to stay with the game and do end game content (and get those purples they love), they are going to either have the game so easy all the good players will leave, or allow some sort of handicap system (such as addons) be available to help those that aren't smart enough to understand standing in fire is bad.

 

[coloumb]

just logged in and still have free time on mine.

still not sure about the soul thing, seems like it could be neat but not sure yet if I 100% like it. also thought I read somewhere about changing your sould line up with the push of a button, or something very similar to that. assuming that ability comes much later?

I think you can run the quests now [you'll have to go to your faction's main city]

Here is information about running the souuuullll quests.

http://rift.ign.com/wiki/Guide_to_Obtaining_New_Souls

I would suggest running all of the quests to gain all of the souls within your class before visiting your class trainer to buy a 2nd role.

Switching up to a different spec takes about 5 seconds [out of combat].

 

[Aikouka]

This threat meter argument is funny. No, GOOD players don't require addons to raid. However, the majority of players are neither good nor ready for end game content. Therefore, addons give them a much needed handicap because advice always falls on deaf ears. If Trion wants the majority of players to stay with the game and do end game content (and get those purples they love), they are going to either have the game so easy all the good players will leave, or allow some sort of handicap system (such as addons) be available to help those that aren't smart enough to understand standing in fire is bad.

If there is some need for threat meters, then chances are there's a huge problem with threat generated by DPS classes or the lack of threat generated by tanking classes. I still don't know a lot about how Rift works in that regard, but the only fight where people considered threat meters "necessary" in WoW was Vaelastrasz the Corrupt in Blackwing Lair, and all you really needed was rogues to Vanish after the first tank got Burning Adrenaline.

All threat meters do now in WoW is tell me how much it sucks being a relatively geared player in heroics as I shoot by tanks on threat with ease :\.

 

[lupi]

i briefly stopped at some city called sanctum and found quest to get just about every other sould to go along with the three given during the opening quest lines.


found the rift and invasion events to be a rather interesting twist to the standard play. it's to a large degree up to the players to fight them back cause I don't see an instantly appearing column of guards to come fight for you once the mobs have broken through the outer wardstones. in our cause of the most severe beatdown some 50 came by and quickly layed a smackdown, interested to see how things change in a high level zone when all the mobs are also 50. also going to make expansion rather interesting as if they add many new zones, what's to help the lowbies not lose access to some of the towns, although assuming the rift mob drops and associated rewards will keep people going around to clear them.

 

[Veliko]

This threat meter argument is funny. No, GOOD players don't require addons to raid. However, the majority of players are neither good nor ready for end game content. Therefore, addons give them a much needed handicap because advice always falls on deaf ears. If Trion wants the majority of players to stay with the game and do end game content (and get those purples they love), they are going to either have the game so easy all the good players will leave, or allow some sort of handicap system (such as addons) be available to help those that aren't smart enough to understand standing in fire is bad.

Yay, more strawman arguments. So how do you tell who is doing enough damage if you don't even have a DPS meter?

 

[Veliko]

Veliko, comparing health bars to threat numbers is ridiculous. First off, there isn't any visible way short of death to know when to heal a player, there are ways of solving this issue however no developer has taken them on yet. For instance, we could add visible damage models to players and in which case we could ultimately agree that you could get rid of health bars and utilize a much more realistic visible damage model. I know there would be many healers that would bitch about this, but also a few who would be excited in the possibility of trying to gauge how hurt a player is by how visibly damaged their character is.

However, there are other methods of determining our threat generation. As we play the game, we should be picking up queues from the monsters as to how our spells affect them, when we steal aggro, how difficult it is to get aggro back, etc. Once the player reaches end game, they should have a significant amount of information already created about how their class plays the game and generates hate. Most of these concepts are pretty basic, how much damage or health a specific spell does usually directly correlates to how much hate it generates.

This wasn't just about threat meters, it was about all add-ons.

However there is nothing in the game that teaches players about threat at all. I haven't even seen it mentioned on any of my mage spells.

 

[Anneka]

Ok; been thinking of buying the game for some time now; are there enough people to play with; i mean are there enough people online to do the quests and at the same time enjoy a nice chitchat now and then?

 

[Veliko]

Ok; been thinking of buying the game for some time now; are there enough people to play with; i mean are there enough people online to do the quests and at the same time enjoy a nice chitchat now and then?

Depends on the server - when you pick one it tells you what the population is like. Choose a high population one and you will be fine.

 

[SunnyD]

Ok; been thinking of buying the game for some time now; are there enough people to play with; i mean are there enough people online to do the quests and at the same time enjoy a nice chitchat now and then?

Yep, theres little shortage of PUGs to be able to run instances, do group quests with, run in invasions, etc. At least on the server I'm on, chat degenerates into barrens chat every once in a while, but its kind of funny because people know it, so they start poking fun at the situation. It's a very social game, more social than wow was imho. Most people aren't stuffy heads stuck up their asses instance-raid snobs.

 

[cblais19]

One thing I love about this game is when an invasion hits, you suddenly see people appearing out of the woodwork for the zone you're in. I was grabbing achievements in Moonshade Highlands, a 35-40ish area and saw almost nobody while I was riding around. Large scale invasion popped up and there were suddenly in excess of 30 people fighting the big bad guy.

There seems to be more spontaneous grouping too, run accross a rift with a couple other people working on it, join the public group, close it up and agree to roll on to the next one. Spend 20 minutes or so rampaging around through rifts then go your separate ways. It certainly seems like teh devs went out of their way to try and make a game that is as encouraging to cooperation as possible.

PS: Best random instance of cooperations I've seen? Went searching for the puzzle in Stonefield, a Defiant zone as a Guardian, and when I got up there a band of three random Defiants had just finished it. I go to start it, and they tell me to just stand by the lever and proceeded to rapidly do everything in the right order for me to complete it. Random, cool, and the highlight of my night.

 

[Veliko]

One thing I love about this game is when an invasion hits, you suddenly see people appearing out of the woodwork for the zone you're in. I was grabbing achievements in Moonshade Highlands, a 35-40ish area and saw almost nobody while I was riding around. Large scale invasion popped up and there were suddenly in excess of 30 people fighting the big bad guy.

There seems to be more spontaneous grouping too, run accross a rift with a couple other people working on it, join the public group, close it up and agree to roll on to the next one. Spend 20 minutes or so rampaging around through rifts then go your separate ways. It certainly seems like teh devs went out of their way to try and make a game that is as encouraging to cooperation as possible.

Yup, that semi-automatic public grouping is great. Before playing Rift I would have said that such a feature would be a disaster but it just works.

 

[Rhezuss]

I've officially canceled my sub a week before the end of the free month. I thought I would get hooked into this game but ended up bored a bit.

It's a good game though but i'm just bored with the genre I guess.

 

[erikistired]

Yay, more strawman arguments. So how do you tell who is doing enough damage if you don't even have a DPS meter?

haven't run into that problem yet personally. if you have the right numbers it seems to work itself out. focus hit and toughness seem to be what are important, not your epeen, errr dps. unfortunately dps meters are creeping into the game already, which is going to ruin endgame for a lot of people who were hoping to leave the elitist raid mentality behind in WoW. i suppose gearscores will be coming along next, segregating the community even more.

of course, the fact you're even worried about this at this point in the game, tells me which group you are in. perhaps you should go back to WoW. :biggrin:

 

[Veliko]

haven't run into that problem yet personally. if you have the right numbers it seems to work itself out. focus hit and toughness seem to be what are important, not your epeen, errr dps. unfortunately dps meters are creeping into the game already, which is going to ruin endgame for a lot of people who were hoping to leave the elitist raid mentality behind in WoW. i suppose gearscores will be coming along next, segregating the community even more.

of course, the fact you're even worried about this at this point in the game, tells me which group you are in. perhaps you should go back to WoW. :biggrin:

So tell me then - why are you focussing on hit and toughness if DPS is so unimportant?

 

[Aikouka]

haven't run into that problem yet personally. if you have the right numbers it seems to work itself out. focus hit and toughness seem to be what are important, not your epeen, errr dps. unfortunately dps meters are creeping into the game already, which is going to ruin endgame for a lot of people who were hoping to leave the elitist raid mentality behind in WoW. i suppose gearscores will be coming along next, segregating the community even more.

of course, the fact you're even worried about this at this point in the game, tells me which group you are in. perhaps you should go back to WoW. :biggrin:

It sounds like you're living in a pipe dream if you think everyone wants some ultra-casual raiding style.

Also, DPS meters are simply a tool to help better your character. Just because some may use them in an unsavory manner doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose.

 

[skace]

It sounds like you're living in a pipe dream if you think everyone wants some ultra-casual raiding style.

Also, DPS meters are simply a tool to help better your character. Just because some may use them in an unsavory manner doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose.

DPS meters ruin the mystery behind the game. Every dungeon master since AD&D knows that the more raw numbers you give the player the less mystery is involved in it. Once a player has every number, he can figure out the result of any conflict without even fighting it. Where is the fun in that?

DPS meters are a tool to better your character like crutches are a tool to make you walk better. Eventually you need to put the crutches down, go to PT, and learn how to walk properly.

 

[Veliko]

DPS meters ruin the mystery behind the game. Every dungeon master since AD&D knows that the more raw numbers you give the player the less mystery is involved in it. Once a player has every number, he can figure out the result of any conflict without even fighting it. Where is the fun in that?

DPS meters are a tool to better your character like crutches are a tool to make you walk better. Eventually you need to put the crutches down, go to PT, and learn how to walk properly.

What mystery? For boss fights there are two things you need to get right - the tactics and enough DPS. There is no mystery behind having high DPS at all, you either have it or you don't.

Comparing table-top gaming to an MMO is just daft.

 

[blurredvision]

DPS meters ruin the mystery behind the game. Every dungeon master since AD&D knows that the more raw numbers you give the player the less mystery is involved in it. Once a player has every number, he can figure out the result of any conflict without even fighting it. Where is the fun in that?

Then maybe you should quit saying that dps meters are evil and take up your fight against Rift who actually puts scrolling combat text and a combat log in the game. The info is already there thanks to Trion, wanting a meter to parse it better is part of the natural progression. Those of us who want a dps meter are not asking for anything that isn't already basically in the game. There is no mystery in Rift to begin with.

DPS meters are a tool to better your character like crutches are a tool to make you walk better. Eventually you need to put the crutches down, go to PT, and learn how to walk properly.

Quite possibly the worst analogy I've ever read, and I've come up with some pretty bad ones myself.

 

[Saga]

Finally hit 50 on my 4box crew. Have been soloing all instances till now.. tried my first expert last night and the trash has roughly 50k hp (non expert mobs are 4-10k, bosses are 60k for comparison..). After wiping about six times trying to kill the first pack of 4 with CC and 2 healers I concluded my stay with Rift is probably done, my server has no end-game oriented guilds so to play with other people who have a clue I'd have to roll on a new server.. not really my cup of tea.

Oh well, at least the month of play was entertaining.

 

[Throckmorton]

I don't get the whole raiding thing... It's not that much fun to begin with, much less with you obsessed powergamers turning raids into spreadsheets.

 

[rci2990]

this is to the moderators, could we get this thread a sticky and change the title to reflect the games current status.thank you.