[MMO] Rift - Discussion

[JoshGuru7]

There's plenty of WoW guilds that will take crappy players. The good guilds even in rift will figure out if you're good or not one way or another.

I don't disagree with you, but one of the inherent problems with DPS meters in a game like Rift is that all DPS classes here also have utility/support components. So you can have the best player putting out 38k damage with 15k worth of support, and a DPS meter will show that they are worse than somebody else who just pushed their three best DPS skills for 40k damage with 0k worth of support. This especially applies to PVP, where you can get a great score just doing AoE but will actually help your team more with focused DPS on a critical target.

 

[erikistired]

Alright. Put in a couple hours last night, and I have to say it's nothing new or innovative. It felt like I was playing a more refined, slightly more "mature" version of NeoSteam meets WoW. IMHO the souls concept is nothing more than talent trees. Big deal. The graphics are okay, not as refined as WoW, but more refined than NeoSteam. For a steampunk genre, it's a bit too serious in content, but too silly in experience. It seems to have an identity crisis of sorts.

My best experience though, I have to say, was watching the chat spam of all the noobies that logged in and 10 minutes later say, "I'm going back to WoW... just so I can tell all my friends to try this game!"

souls and talent trees are completely different. that's one of the aspects of the game i actually like. not only can you combine them, you are forced to to some degree. with talent trees you are forced into one tree until most of your points are spent, and at that point you can pick up some of the tier 1/2 stuff from the other two. i also like how you'll eventually pick up all of the souls, and can run up to 4 different combos of 3. i would love to have a 3rd and maybe even 4th spec in WoW with pvp and pve builds, and playing a healer/dps class.

i'm also enjoying all of the world events, although i expect that to slow down once the game leaves beta.

i really wish they hadn't gone with the "you're not playing wow anymore" adverts, i think it does the game an injustice. while i believe the only people who can kill wow are blizzard, i think this game has enough merit to stand on its own. it's certainly better than any other mmo i've played lately.

 

[SunnyD]

souls and talent trees are completely different.

See, I really can't agree. Yeah, the soul sort of defines what you do as you level it up. But still, it's really just a talent tree. They just put a lot of effort into putting in multiple trees for each base class. There's nothing really "unique" about it. Yeah, it's slightly more mix'n'match, but I don't see how it's really any different in overall implementation than talent trees.

That said, played a bunch today, started a mage. It was lackluster... I felt like I was playing WoW. Just with a shitload of spells at low levels.

 

[Merad]

This game is looking fairly interesting. I'm DL'ing the open beta ATM, hoping I'll be able to squeeze in a few hours to try it out tomorrow (last full day of OB, right?).

Other than a brief return to EVE last fall I haven't really played a MMO in about 2 years, and I'm really thinking about dropping a pre-order on this one.

 

[Punter]

See, I really can't agree. Yeah, the soul sort of defines what you do as you level it up. But still, it's really just a talent tree. They just put a lot of effort into putting in multiple trees for each base class. There's nothing really "unique" about it. Yeah, it's slightly more mix'n'match, but I don't see how it's really any different in overall implementation than talent trees.

That said, played a bunch today, started a mage. It was lackluster... I felt like I was playing WoW. Just with a shitload of spells at low levels.

For me the unique part as a Cleric is that I will have the option to play different roles:
1. Sentinel/Warden/Purifier - Group Healer caster
2. Shaman/Justicar/Warden - Solo/DPS melee
3. Inquisitor/Sentinel/Purifier - Support caster
4. Not sure what this will be, possibly Warden for a HOT/AOE PVP raid healer.

I love the option to switch between melee and casting; sometimes I want to hit things.

 

[Daemas]

unfortunately, I think I'm going to pass on this game. not that it's not a good game, it's just not my type of game.

EDIT: which sucks for me because I'm currently bored out of my mind right now

 

[CurseTheSky]

For me the unique part as a Cleric is that I will have the option to play different roles:
1. Sentinel/Warden/Purifier - Group Healer caster
2. Shaman/Justicar/Warden - Solo/DPS melee
3. Inquisitor/Sentinel/Purifier - Support caster
4. Not sure what this will be, possibly Warden for a HOT/AOE PVP raid healer.

I love the option to switch between melee and casting; sometimes I want to hit things.

This is exactly what makes the game so fun. Unlike WoW, you can mix and match Souls, allowing you to tailor the character to your play style. You can even try some really unruly combinations, just because.

For example, in WoW, if you roll a Rogue, you're a rogue. You get stealth, poisons, lots of melee damage, and stuns. On the other hand, if you roll a hunter, you're a hunter. Sure, you can specialize in traps, or specialize in pets, or specialize in ranged damage, but in the end, you're just like every other hunter out there.

Now, in Rift, I can decide that I like ranged combat, but I hate pets and I also enjoy being stealthed. So I make a Rogue, and for my souls go with Marksman, Nightblade, and Saboteur. On the other hand, maybe I like to fight up close, but I also really wanted to have a pet, so I go with Ranger, Riftstalker, and Blade Dancer. I could even choose to be support / healer, but also throw bombs and set up traps by going with Bard, Riftstalker, and Saboteur.

The point is, there's no right or wrong combination. Yes, some souls naturally work better with other certain ones, but every single soul has abilities that will be a benefit to the class, and thinking outside the box can really lead to some excellent game play. That, and the fact that you can purchase extra roles (templates, which can be switched to on the fly) means that experimentation is going to be a big part of this game. Want to do Bard, Riftstalker, Marksman? Why not, go for it! This also means that you never know what to expect from your opponent(s). Just because you see someone shooting arrows with a pet at their side doesn't necessarily mean you have to watch out for traps at their feet. For all you know, you could close on the person only to find out that they're actually very potent in melee combat, and the fact that they whittled you down to 2/3rds health at range means that they can easily finish you off hand to hand.

So far I'm very much enjoying this game, but for me, it's going to come down to the end game. If the game ends up being nothing but raiding, battlegrounds, and collecting mats for crafting or rep for gear, it'll just be another WoW. However, if they manage to weave in something else than a constant grind for better gear, I'll be happy to pay them each month for the joy of playing.

 

[JoshGuru7]

See, I really can't agree. Yeah, the soul sort of defines what you do as you level it up. But still, it's really just a talent tree. They just put a lot of effort into putting in multiple trees for each base class. There's nothing really "unique" about it. Yeah, it's slightly more mix'n'match, but I don't see how it's really any different in overall implementation than talent trees.

Have you gotten to the mid teens yet? You can get quests to acquire all of the souls, then switch back and forth between roles with different souls. For example as a mage, your solo leveling build could be a Necro/Lock, with a Stormcaller/Elementalist for rifting and a Chloro/Lock for PvP.

It's basically like having a couple of alts that you can switch back and forth to on the fly but that share the same gear, crafting, reputation, collectibles, etc. I think a lot of the people who like it such as myself alt in other games already, so this is a nice improvement for us.

 

[Rhezuss]

This is exactly what makes the game so fun. Unlike WoW, you can mix and match Souls, allowing you to tailor the character to your play style. You can even try some really unruly combinations, just because.

For example, in WoW, if you roll a Rogue, you're a rogue. You get stealth, poisons, lots of melee damage, and stuns. On the other hand, if you roll a hunter, you're a hunter. Sure, you can specialize in traps, or specialize in pets, or specialize in ranged damage, but in the end, you're just like every other hunter out there.

Now, in Rift, I can decide that I like ranged combat, but I hate pets and I also enjoy being stealthed. So I make a Rogue, and for my souls go with Marksman, Nightblade, and Saboteur. On the other hand, maybe I like to fight up close, but I also really wanted to have a pet, so I go with Ranger, Riftstalker, and Blade Dancer. I could even choose to be support / healer, but also throw bombs and set up traps by going with Bard, Riftstalker, and Saboteur.

The point is, there's no right or wrong combination. Yes, some souls naturally work better with other certain ones, but every single soul has abilities that will be a benefit to the class, and thinking outside the box can really lead to some excellent game play. That, and the fact that you can purchase extra roles (templates, which can be switched to on the fly) means that experimentation is going to be a big part of this game. Want to do Bard, Riftstalker, Marksman? Why not, go for it! This also means that you never know what to expect from your opponent(s). Just because you see someone shooting arrows with a pet at their side doesn't necessarily mean you have to watch out for traps at their feet. For all you know, you could close on the person only to find out that they're actually very potent in melee combat, and the fact that they whittled you down to 2/3rds health at range means that they can easily finish you off hand to hand.

So far I'm very much enjoying this game, but for me, it's going to come down to the end game. If the game ends up being nothing but raiding, battlegrounds, and collecting mats for crafting or rep for gear, it'll just be another WoW. However, if they manage to weave in something else than a constant grind for better gear, I'll be happy to pay them each month for the joy of playing.

I couldn't agree more!

But on the other hand, I find the mixmatching of souls sometimes a bit weird...

For instance, why does the Champion soul (2H dmg) have many of the same skills as the Paragon soul (Dual-wielding dmg)...like the skill when you have stored 3 sword thingys and unleash a powerful blow...same skill in the Champion and Paragon souls...

Maybe I didn't understood some of the mechanics and menus but...do you guys have a action bar for each of your souls?

EDIT: Other question, if you have the BETA client downloaded and you pre-order the digital game from the Rift page, do you have to redownload the entire game or you'll only have to update to the retail version?

 

[coloumb]

So I switched up to a Justicar/Shaman/Druid build - holy crow dps machine. Lots of crits and good survivability:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00rna.x.EsdukR.Vo

Taken from this website:

http://riftclerics.net/riftclerics/2011/01/31/the-righteous-path-a-newbies-rift-cleric-guide/

A friend who started open beta yesterday said the choices of souls within each role reminded him of SWG before the nerf - something we both enjoyed - being able to customize your character to whatever you felt like and still be capable in a group.

I really like the dynamic nature of the game - randomly spawning RIFTs and invasions are a nice distraction. I'll be running some quests, a rift will spawn, and people will stop by to help "seal" the rift. How cool is that?

And the level 20-29 chatter isn't filled with "OMZG..this games rul!3s..I'm gonna go tells all my homies in WoW!". And people are actually willing to help out when asked for group quest mobs or dungeons...

I think the end game will be:

PVP battleground
Crafting - they really need to do something better with this - it's too easy to replace gear with quest betters quest items or faction/rift drop rewards
PVP contested zones
Randomly spawning RIFTS & invasions
Random GM events

This MMO will definitely keep me busy until...SWTOR is released

 

[SunnyD]

I think I made a Justicar/Sentinel/Cabalist today... interesting. Melee, AOE healing and AOE damage, all rolled up in one.

 

[viivo]

Just played the beta for a few hours after knowing absolutely nothing about this game. I stopped paying attention to MMORPGs after quiting WoW years ago, but I wanted to see if there have been any advances.

I found that, no, there have been no advances made. In fact, now that I've had time to think about it, WoW has actually stagnated ideas and creativity as every new MMORPG rushes to copy features of the leading MMO. Okay, I can understand being "inspired" by popular features, but do the pet and quest windows and hotkey bar have to look exactly the same as WoW's? Even the slightly-cartoonish look of the world is copied basically pixel for pixel. Not to mention the exact same newbie area quests ("kill 6 of this.")

Are they so afraid to change the formula the slightest bit lest they lose players? If stealing players from WoW is their only goal, they've already lost. I guess that's why the game feels so bland: the developers' goal wasn't to make the best game possible, it was to make the best game possible to draw a specific set of players.

Having said that, the class customization is neat, though many of the skills seem rather similar. I suppose it's a case of quantity of quality, and there's only so many ways you can make a skill set for the base classes of warrior, rogue, mage, and healer.

 

[Rhezuss]

Dammit I just don't understand...

I just played an hour...then I said to myself that this game was a little too repetitive...I log out for like 10 minutes and all I think about is to play Rift again...

Is this game a drug or what?!?!?

I certainly won't buy it for the headstart and wait for the release reatil box...i'll have some "things" to go check at the closest store and maybe i'll just walk past the PC games section and see if my arm grabs a box or not...

 

[Praxis1452]

If I really enjoyed guild wars PvP will I like this? I don't have tons of time anymore but guild wars PvP was so dynamic, atleast originally and skill based that I really enjoyed it.

 

[SunnyD]

Are they so afraid to change the formula the slightest bit lest they lose players? If stealing players from WoW is their only goal, they've already lost. I guess that's why the game feels so bland: the developers' goal wasn't to make the best game possible, it was to make the best game possible to draw a specific set of players.

But what else can they do? Not much. It's a formula that works, and frankly how else can you legitimately measure advancement in some meaningful (meaningless) game like this?

 

[Wordplay]

I found that, no, there have been no advances made. In fact, now that I've had time to think about it, WoW has actually stagnated ideas and creativity as every new MMORPG rushes to copy features of the leading MMO. Okay, I can understand being "inspired" by popular features, but do the pet and quest windows and hotkey bar have to look exactly the same as WoW's? Even the slightly-cartoonish look of the world is copied basically pixel for pixel. Not to mention the exact same newbie area quests ("kill 6 of this.")

Are they so afraid to change the formula the slightest bit lest they lose players? If stealing players from WoW is their only goal, they've already lost. I guess that's why the game feels so bland: the developers' goal wasn't to make the best game possible, it was to make the best game possible to draw a specific set of players.

It's pretty much how all the quests are. Kill 10 of X, get Y, deliver Z repeat.

I completely agree with the second paragraph. No new combat system, no voice acting, lack of cut scenes, no phasing, piss poor story mechanics etc. Hell even some of the talents are pretty much the same from WoW.

 

[pontifex]

But what else can they do? Not much. It's a formula that works, and frankly how else can you legitimately measure advancement in some meaningful (meaningless) game like this?

yeah, what kind of quests does he think we should be doing?

 

[brandonb]

Well, I did my first instance of FAE this weekend. When I got to the top of the mountain and you are hit with the blizzard really sealed the deal to me. I thought it was neat that the snow was flying and you had a white out condition, you couldn't even see mobs 25 feet in front of you, and had to navigate through it.

I was at a LAN party with 2 of my coworkers (who came from WoW) when we did the instance and they were all like "Wow, this is so cool."

Environments play a huge part of immersion. I also like the fact that rifts spawn invasion forces that take over areas. I was in Sanctum, and about 5 invasion forces came in simultaniously to Sanctum watch and took it over, and there was 40 mobs sitting there, had to get into a raid with other players to take them out and clear the area so people could leave the noobie town.

While it is alot like WoW, it has dynamic content which adds alot of gameplay.

 

[Rhezuss]

Well, I did my first instance of FAE this weekend. When I got to the top of the mountain and you are hit with the blizzard really sealed the deal to me. I thought it was neat that the snow was flying and you had a white out condition, you couldn't even see mobs 25 feet in front of you, and had to navigate through it.

I was at a LAN party with 2 of my coworkers (who came from WoW) when we did the instance and they were all like "Wow, this is so cool."

Environments play a huge part of immersion. I also like the fact that rifts spawn invasion forces that take over areas. I was in Sanctum, and about 5 invasion forces came in simultaniously to Sanctum watch and took it over, and there was 40 mobs sitting there, had to get into a raid with other players to take them out and clear the area so people could leave the noobie town.

While it is alot like WoW, it has dynamic content which adds alot of gameplay.

Thanks brandonb, you may have sealed the deal for me too!

It could be cool to start on the same server too...just proposing.

 

[brandonb]

I'm playing on Byreal, something like that. I can let you know my character name on Thursday after I create it. I don't want to give out names until I'm certain it's not taken, etc.

 

[Rhezuss]

Any of you tried a "sword&shield" tank leveling toon?
I love the Warrior calling and found that 2H for leveling was really quicker and to some point awesomer!

But I really like the Tanking side of some souls but...how are the DPS when you find yourself simply leveling your toon? How long it takes to kill a mob with only a 1H weapon and your shield?

With Rift, I want to try something new, something I did not tried in earlier MMOs and single player RPGs in the past...

So, how's the Warriors defensive souls faring?

 

[akugami]

I certainly won't buy it for the headstart and wait for the release reatil box...i'll have some "things" to go check at the closest store and maybe i'll just walk past the PC games section and see if my arm grabs a box or not...

The collector's edition has a bonus, probably the largest one, of a 24 slot bag as the starting bag. Other bonuses are a pet, a resist buff and a mount but IMHO the biggest is a larger starting bag since bag space can be limited. Direct2drive is running a 20% off sale which will drop it to the same price of the regular retail box. Mine came out to about $53 with tax.

But what else can they do? Not much. It's a formula that works, and frankly how else can you legitimately measure advancement in some meaningful (meaningless) game like this?

I can see how the first 15-20 levels can be a bit bland. You're still getting into the game. However, I hope there will be long and winding quests later on. These are only wishes but I hope we something similar to the Coldain Ring War in EQ1 where there is an invasion on the Coldain dwarf city. Or perhaps like an EQ epic quest minus tedious camping. Some of the scripted fights should be like those found in later parts of EQ such as during the Planes of Power expansion. Keep in mind I was not into WoW and largely quit playing after WoW was released so I'm not sure what type of scripted boss fights they have. I want hard fights. I want fights where you need to use skill.

 

[pwilson316]

This game seems to be the perfect cure for my altitis.

With 4 characters and 4 Roles I can mix things around as much as I want without having to start a new character.

With all the Soul combinations you can find the mix that is right for you at that moment, then change things up when needed.

I wonder how many from here are joining and whether it's worth looking into starting a guild. Or does anyone have suggestions on a guild to join.

 

[Phobic9]

This game seems to be the perfect cure for my altitis.

With 4 characters and 4 Roles I can mix things around as much as I want without having to start a new character.

With all the Soul combinations you can find the mix that is right for you at that moment, then change things up when needed.

I wonder how many from here are joining and whether it's worth looking into starting a guild. Or does anyone have suggestions on a guild to join.

I totally agree with you on the altitis. I have it bad. I've never reached max level in any MMO, with the exception of WoW due to alts. The fact that you can switch roles on the fly makes this game great.

I'm also looking for a casual guild myself to play with in Rift. Preferably EST on the guardian side. I played defiants for the entire beta so guardians should feel a little new to me.

 

[pwilson316]

Yup, same for me - looking for an EST casual Guardian guild.

And, thanks to akugami, I grabbed the collectors addition from D2D for just under $48 (mostly for the pack).

Have the server names been announced yet? I thought I heard that the names would change from Beta.