[MMO] World of Tanks

[Fallen Kell]

Consider the end of the game where you're in a T-44 and there's a wounded E75 left on the other team. Your odds are against you killing him with stock rounds so you've effectively lost already if you don't have some premium rounds. Load APCR and you have a fighting shot to win the game and get a 50% income boost.

I don't know. In that situation, I think it depends more on where you find the E75. There are plenty of weak spots and you are able to circle him faster than his turret can align (if you track him). Now a real situation that calls for premium ammo would be a crusader mkII vs a damaged Togg. Good luck penning anything with that crusader mkII in the first place, let alone a Togg, and add insult to injury, the Togg is just as fast as this "light" tank is...

 

[Possessed Freak]

People call it pay to win, but the easiest way to make silver is to win. If you use premium ammo correctly, it will pay for itself. People who refuse to bring premium ammo based on principle are fools. Consider the end of the game where you're in a T-44 and there's a wounded E75 left on the other team. Your odds are against you killing him with stock rounds so you've effectively lost already if you don't have some premium rounds. Load APCR and you have a fighting shot to win the game and get a 50% income boost.

Picture the reverse please. You have fought a damn good fight in an E75, taking damage and leading your team to the end of the game. On the other side is a T44, you *should* win this. But thanks to the idiocy that is premium ammo (no drawback other than credits) the T44 suddenly has better than even odds since he has DPM that can finish me off.

Premium rounds should have a drawback, the easiest one I can think of is pen for damage. Yes you can do damage each shot, but you will do less of it.

 

[datalink7]

I limit myself on principle on my KV-2 and only allow myself to load HE.

 

[Skott]

There is no putting that genie (premium rounds) back in the bottle. Best to learn to deal with it.

 

[Possessed Freak]

There is no putting that genie (premium rounds) back in the bottle. Best to learn to deal with it.

Wargaming could address it any time they want. They already made them cost credits instead of only gold. They have repeatedly tweaked the rounds. They could EASILY make the premium rounds do less damage per shell than the default round alternate. There *should* be a tradeoff, there should be a selection.

Wargaming does a horrible job of this, the default gun is normally crap compared to the next one. There should be redeeming qualities to all options instead of: pick the obvious best gun/pick the easy mode ammo.

There is little to do to "deal" with premium ammo users. Angle the best you can, hull down if you can, and hope they don't pen.

 

[Daverino]

Picture the reverse please. You have fought a damn good fight in an E75, taking damage and leading your team to the end of the game. On the other side is a T44, you *should* win this. But thanks to the idiocy that is premium ammo (no drawback other than credits) the T44 suddenly has better than even odds since he has DPM that can finish me off.

Premium rounds should have a drawback, the easiest one I can think of is pen for damage. Yes you can do damage each shot, but you will do less of it.

E75 could use premium as well. . . Everyone is on the same playing field

 

[Ruptga]

E75 could use premium as well. . . Everyone is on the same playing field

The only time an e75 will bounce a t44 with AP is when it's a really weird glancing angle, in which case gold ammo would definitely bounce too.

 

[Craig234]

After the patch:

- The game looked like crap - low res. It wasn't until someone mentioned the 'right shift and plus key' that fixed that from 65% to 100% graphics.

- I had to switch back to standard graphics again to get decent FPS, and the game still often freezes to single digit FPS - jumping from 71 to 8 to 42 to 2 to 69. Quite bad.

- They took Karl.

 

[Possessed Freak]

E75 could use premium as well. . . Everyone is on the same playing field

Somewhere my point went RIGHT OVER your head. My point is this: The top tier heavy that fought the good fight is still massively at risk from a lower tier MEDIUM because of premium ammo. Armor means little in the presence of premium ammo.

The lower tier tanks should have to use tactics to beat the heavier armored tank, not punch through the front with p(remium)2w rounds.

Most of my tanks have a token amount of premium ammo, some have a higher percentage because their guns are horrible at the tier (A43), and a few shoot almost 100% premium (E100, 183, and the mighty M3 Lee).

 

[PowerYoga]

I think any time when you know you need to use gold rounds to take out a player, it shows enough situational awareness to make you an above average player. If I know I can't pen something (the front of a T28 for example) from where I am at and I load gold rounds to take him out so he can't have complete reign over the rest of the battlefield, does that make me a p2w derp?

I've lost count of the number of "hard" tanks that I killed with gold rounds which saved matches. An arrogant e75, a t28 on the hills, etc.

(Of course, not talking about the ones that load full gold every game and buy more from their credit card when their gold rounds run out... )

 

[biostud]

Since you can buy "gold" rounds with normal credits I also only use them in very rare occasions, and most often, I get no pen even when I switch to gold. (Granted last time was a Tortoise vs T95 front )

 

[Fallen Kell]

The crashes in 9.0 are just PISSING ME OFF! I was doing my daily double bonus in my KV-1 last night and was in a Tier 5 battle (rare anymore), so I knew I was going to just dominate. Well, my team sucked. It was on ruinburg in standard battle mode.

I at least waited at our base until the rest of the team found the bulk of the enemy (since a KV1 is too slow to pick the wrong side of the map and move over to help the other side and too slow to come back to defend base if I go and attack, etc). So unfortunately both field and city were being attacked by the enemy, but the bulk of their forces were city, so I moved to fight them. By the time I get there, everyone on my team was already dead, leaving me alone against 6 tanks (a KV1, a Stugg, a M4, a T49, and two light tanks that I don't remember).

The KV1 was just under full health, and lumbered across one of the roads in front of me. I hit him with a shot that tracked him and did ~140 damage. While he was still turning his turret to aim at me, I hit him again. The stugg popped up and started firing at me I bounced his shot. I fired a third shot on the KV1 and light him on fire (he fired his shot and bounced, before the fire killed him). I then turned on the Stugg (who was a full health). I hit him and tracked him so he couldn't pull back behind cover. We then traded blows, with him doing about 100 damage on that shot. His next shot bounced (I was able to angle better against him since the KV1 was now dead). And I then killed him on the next shot before he could reload (I use the 85mm?, the one that is highest pen and highest dps because the KV1 gets into too many tier 7 fights now, you need the penetration to be useful). The M4 and T49 move to flank while this is happening, with the 2 lights taking pop shots the entire time (and bouncing). The M4 was heavily damaged and I one shot him as he turned the corner to aim at me. I moved up and use the reckage of the M4 and KV1 as cover (they were next to each other).

By this point the other flank had failed and I am the only one left on my team against 2 arty, the 2 lights that were in city, the T49, and 3 more lights that were on the other flank. The T49 and the 2 lights in the city were flanking me and essentially tag-team pop-tarting me (their best chance of winning), but I backed into an alcove between buildings to only have my front armor exposed at bad angles to both sides of the street. Where-in I was bouncing everything they were firing, and let me focus on shooting one of them at a time. Both lights were already damaged, and I was able to 1 shot one of them.

I then push out of the alcove to get a better shot on the T49, but he backs away. At this point, I am thinking that an arty might be trying something like moving up to try and blap me from behind. I guess right, because I moved back to the other edge of the street (by the fountain), and caught one of the arty in the open making a run for the fountain. He fired while he was moving which means he completely missed. I stopped for 1/2 a second and aimed properly and hit him, then moved, and the other arty's shell hit the spot where I had stopped to shoot the first arty, and missed me completely. I then kill the one arty that was caught in the open and moved back up the far street towards my base, where 1 of the enemy tanks had started to cap. When I get back to one of the cross streets that goes towards the base, the T49 was waiting and hit me taking me down to about 240hp. I returned fire doing some damage, and angled on him. His second shot bounced, and the other light in city pops up behind me and tracks my rear. I shoot at the T49 and kill him (ammo rack I believe, as he had ~200hp), and I start turning my turret towards the light tank. When he tried to move back behind cover, he ran over some of the rubble on the road and got caught up on it as it wouldn't let him move back and he had to start to turn to get off it. This gave me the time to swing my turret around and blap him.

I move back up the road towards base, and one of the lights came charging down to attack me. I bounced his shot and one shoot him and continue moving back to defend. As I get closer, I can see the back end of the light tank that was capping peaking out over some of the rubble. I aim and track him, resetting the base capture. I move forward to get a better angle on him and then two shot him before his track repairs (his turret was behind cover from my position and couldn't even get a shot off). The moment he dies, CRASH!

And I start cursing. I get the game restarted, and start loading the map (and see that I am still alive), get 1/2 way into the reload, and CRASH! Restart again, get a fraction into the map reload, and CRASH.... I then crash 5 more times!!!! I finally get back into the game and the match is over with a draw... I don't have my exact damage, but I have 8 kills, high calibur, sniper, steel wall, defender, top gun, and some other award.... I did get >50,000 credits and over 1000 exp... But dammit, I could have killed those last 2. They didn't even try to kill me I am guessing when I went into crash fest otherwise they would have seen that I wasn't moving at all....

 

[skipsneeky2]

Standard graphics and both me and a buddy both have seen a good frame increase using 337.50 NVidia drivers versus 335.23. Any other settings outside of standard honestly makes the game very much unplayable despite low gpu usage but that is ok cause I only roll with standard anyways.

 

[Fallen Kell]

...and most often, I get no pen even when I switch to gold. (Granted last time was a Tortoise vs T95 front )

Bad choice for using gold. From the front on the T95 unless you hit the hatch, you are not going to pen, no matter what tank you are in. And you don't need to use gold to pen the hatch, so it is a waste.

Gold rounds do not automatically mean magic pen. You need to know the gold round for your gun to know what it actually is getting you. Many have the same penetration power as the standard round, but do more damage. Others only have a slightly higher pen with a slight increase in damage, while some have a much higher pen, with no damage bonus. Some guns are only useful with gold rounds (SU-152 stock gun for instance). Others it is a complete waste.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Long story about game being shitty and crashing.

I had the same thing happen to me the other night. Was getting good shots in a T-29 and keeping him distracted while the rest of my team was flanking with my VK-3002 and then non stop crashes.

 

[Daverino]

Somewhere my point went RIGHT OVER your head. My point is this: The top tier heavy that fought the good fight is still massively at risk from a lower tier MEDIUM because of premium ammo. Armor means little in the presence of premium ammo.

The lower tier tanks should have to use tactics to beat the heavier armored tank, not punch through the front with p(remium)2w rounds.

Most of my tanks have a token amount of premium ammo, some have a higher percentage because their guns are horrible at the tier (A43), and a few shoot almost 100% premium (E100, 183, and the mighty M3 Lee).

And you missed mine. The E75 could very well be facing an E100 or a T110E5. The E75 can use premium rounds for clutch shots just as much as the T44.

Paying 2,000 silver for a pen boost to make a winning shot more likely to pen is no different than paying 3,000 silver to heal your dead gunner and do the same. If you shoot nothing but premium you'll go bankrupt pretty quickly. It's not a practical thing to do. But shooting premium when you absolutely positively need that shot to connect? That's just smart.

Premium ammo is a tool. Use it. If not, you're just gimping yourself.

 

[Daverino]

Bad choice for using gold. From the front on the T95 unless you hit the hatch, you are not going to pen, no matter what tank you are in. And you don't need to use gold to pen the hatch, so it is a waste.

Gold rounds do not automatically mean magic pen. You need to know the gold round for your gun to know what it actually is getting you. Many have the same penetration power as the standard round, but do more damage. Others only have a slightly higher pen with a slight increase in damage, while some have a much higher pen, with no damage bonus. Some guns are only useful with gold rounds (SU-152 stock gun for instance). Others it is a complete waste.

Not totally true. The T95 has a lower mantlet under the gun that is fairly easy to penetrate. It is, however, very small (smaller than a Foch 155's). If the T95 is elevated, though, it's your best option. Any sort of upward angle against the T95 hatches will cause an immediate ricochet.

To the second point, yes, you need to look at the difference between the standard and premium penetration to determine whether it makes a difference or not. Some guns, like the British 20 pounder, have almost no difference between the standard and premium rounds (226 vs 258). However a Jagdtiger's premium rounds can be truly devastating (276 vs 352!). That's enough to punch through the casemate of a T110E3.

 

[PowerYoga]

and on a lesser note, something like the 6 lber (the gun on the churchill and AT2) can go through KV1's frontal armor if it's unangled and hits a weak spot, whereas the normal round has 0 chance. It gives shit tanks a chance versus bully tanks, whereas if they didn't exist all you can do is roll over and die. (yeah good fucking luck "flanking" on an AT2 or churchill)

 

[stag3]

I think any time when you know you need to use gold rounds to take out a player, it shows enough situational awareness to make you an above average player. If I know I can't pen something (the front of a T28 for example) from where I am at and I load gold rounds to take him out so he can't have complete reign over the rest of the battlefield, does that make me a p2w derp?

I've lost count of the number of "hard" tanks that I killed with gold rounds which saved matches. An arrogant e75, a t28 on the hills, etc.

(Of course, not talking about the ones that load full gold every game and buy more from their credit card when their gold rounds run out... )

i don't get the p2w argument at all, it's there, anyone can purchase it with credits, it's exactly the same shit to me as a fire extinguisher, first aid kit and repair kits. use any advantage you can gain.

in the t54 i use 100% heat because of the 330 pen, it would be stupid not to

 

[Ruptga]

People argue pay to win because a decent player can't afford to use premium ammo (except maybe a few rounds per match on average) without buying premium time or a gold tank.

AP prices scale up, but the price of a gold round barely changes as you go up tiers, which means gold rounds are increasingly unprofitable the further you are from tier ten. Compare credit prices: AT2 45 AP, 2400 gold; Tiger 252 AP, 4400 gold; IS8 1065 AP, 5200 gold. In high tiers the difference isn't quite as large, but gold rounds in low-mid tier tanks are so ridiculously unprofitable there is no way you can shoot more than 1-3 of them before you start to lose money on a win.

And then there's the effect gold rounds have on game balancing. Things like the british TDs and KV3 line are completely pointless when practically any chump can pen you at will. Of course angling and good play will reduce that to a degree, but when your KV3 has 120mm on its front and other t7s are shooting gold rounds that pen 210-250mm you are flat out fucked regardless of skill.

 

[Daverino]

People argue pay to win because a decent player can't afford to use premium ammo (except maybe a few rounds per match on average) without buying premium time or a gold tank. AP prices scale up, but the price of a gold round barely changes as you go up tiers, which means gold rounds are increasingly unprofitable the further you are from tier ten. Compare credit prices: AT2 45 AP, 2400 gold; Tiger 252 AP, 4400 gold; IS8 1065 AP, 5200 gold. In high tiers the difference isn't quite as large, but gold rounds in low-mid tier tanks are so ridiculously unprofitable there is no way you can shoot more than 1-3 of them before you start to lose money on a win.

While this is true, let's look honestly at the game. Once you get to tier seven, maybe tier eight, you can't practically earn enough credits to afford the next levels anyhow. A tier ten tank costs over 6,000,000 silver. It is already out of reach for players who do not have a premium account or a premium tank. Your other options are to become good enough to get into a gold earning clan, which is pretty near impossible without a tier ten tank in the first place or lean heavily on the daily and weekly missions. The last two bi-weekly missions, for example, paid out 2,500 gold and a free Dicker Max (premium) respectively. But without the experience boost of premium, grinding out 250,000 experience in two weeks is also pretty hard.

So what does this mean? You can be happy and satisfied peaking out at around tier 6 to tier 7, which gives you probably a hundred tanks for you to choose from. Or you can cough up some cash and go up to the big boy levels. I'm sure this is exactly what Wargaming wants and good on them. They have to make money somehow.

Regarding the KV-3, there are plenty of tier four and five tanks that can penetrate 120mm of armor. Tier seven and eight are going through the front of a KV-3 regardless of what rounds they're using.

 

[Ruptga]

So what you're saying is the xp and silver prices of t7+ tanks make those tiers pay-to-play, while the gold ammo situation makes everything else pay to win?

In an AP-only match a KV3 and an IS can have a fun brawl, assuming the players are evenly matched. With its wide tracks and good side armor the KV3 can actually bounce an IS with some reliability. That doesn't help much with a Tiger, but glass dpm cannon is its whole schtick so I'm ok with that.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Did you know that I have been premium free for over a year, I barely run my premium tanks, and I have no problem playing tiers 8, 9, and 10 thanks to the missions. I have purchased multiple tier 10 tanks in that time frame, and just last Sunday, purchased a tank to take me below 100k credits and I am already back at 650k.

If you are losing credits at tier 8 (even w/o a premium account), then you are shooting way too many shots and doing no damage.

Regarding the E75 using premium ammo. If you have to use premium on a 128, then give up. If you can't pen an E100 with normal ammo, you are not going to with premium (IE it is well angled). The lower plate is a joke, the turret if unangled is squishy. If it is angled properly you will bounce with every round available. Against an E5, again what is the problem... the lower plate is still viable as well as a multitude of weakspots on the front.

If you are talking about sniping from 500m and penning a heavy tank with ease with gold ammo, then I say again it is crutch ammo that should NOT exist. Why have armor if the rounds available can pen most anywhere? Which is why this game is currently one of cat and mouse and TDs and Arty. To be anything else is death.

 

[Possessed Freak]

The crashes in 9.0 are just PISSING ME OFF!

Downgrade your graphics to standard for now. Everyone I have platooned with who did this are fine. My shitty laptop can only play with std graphics so I never experienced crashes with this patch.

 

[biostud]

Some crashes might be linked to XVM mods :/