[MMO] World of Tanks

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
The problem is when you play a slow T8 with T10 artillery, then you get one shot a lot. Without any warning.

Then the enemy artillery isn't helping their team much picking tier 8 targets, and you are helping your team eating the shot protecting your tier 10's.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
Except 1 shotted is not normal. For example, played my 261 last night, there was a tier 9 type 4 heavy, boom hit right on it - took off 40%. That's 3 hits to kill. I've had some take 5.

A good rule of thumb in these games is not to leave the player disabled. That's not very fun for players. The only praise I expect you'll see for that is 'better than destroyed', but it's not fun for players.

And how often is your tank going to be shot as arty vulnerable and stunned for 10 or 20 seconds or whatever and not destroyed? And talk about 'historical accuracy'...

Well the stun is intended to replicate being shell shocked. Which I assure you is very real. And yes being 1 shotted as a tier ten is rare, it did happen to my T62a the other night. Was full health and a T92 one shotted me, as he hit my engine deck with AP. And while T9/10 arty going for T7/8 tanks may not be helping their team much, but it does happen.

I think what they are trying to do is make it to where you don't get out of the game after being killed by an enemy you can't attack. After being stunned, the player can heal their crew which lets them move again, so they are not out of the game. This is similar to being tracked, you can repair your track, or wait 10-30 seconds for it to be fixed. Although in this case you can still fire.

I do think the fall off for being stunned needs to change. Direct hits from a tier 10, sure 20-30 seconds. But if its just in the area, the stun time should shrink significantly.
 

VenomXTF

Senior member
May 3, 2004
341
15
81
I thought this thread pretty much died, I guess not.

Regarding artillery, I've talked face to face with many WG employees, including Victor Kislyi (CEO) and Thaine Lyman (Head of Development). They know they screwed up the game by introducing arty, and are now trying to fix it. Not my words, but what they said themselves. I'm not sure how this can still even be argued, there are even several videos explaining how their focus is on fixing artillery, maps, balance and matchmaking.

I've also recently started streaming. Usually on Saturdays. If you'd like to support me by following that would be great, or just stop by and say hi next time I stream: https://www.twitch.tv/akulav_na
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Well the stun is intended to replicate being shell shocked. Which I assure you is very real. And yes being 1 shotted as a tier ten is rare, it did happen to my T62a the other night. Was full health and a T92 one shotted me, as he hit my engine deck with AP. And while T9/10 arty going for T7/8 tanks may not be helping their team much, but it does happen.

I think what they are trying to do is make it to where you don't get out of the game after being killed by an enemy you can't attack. After being stunned, the player can heal their crew which lets them move again, so they are not out of the game. This is similar to being tracked, you can repair your track, or wait 10-30 seconds for it to be fixed. Although in this case you can still fire.

I do think the fall off for being stunned needs to change. Direct hits from a tier 10, sure 20-30 seconds. But if its just in the area, the stun time should shrink significantly.

I understand - I think it's just players complaining about things though, just as it seems many matches in a row the bottom tier tanks complain about being bottom tier - game after game after game in a row has complaints about mm by bottom tier tanks. And those same tier 8's have a hard time against tier 10's and don't like that either.

Arty is already screwed by the game in almost never getting over 50% credit for its shots. I've had games where I had top damage but IIRC like half the xp of another tank. This just makes it that much less fun to play and getting stunned won't be fun. I've seen MMO pvp that tried longer stuns and got rid of them because players hated them.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,407
4,968
136
Obviously it is always harder to be bottom tier, but if I see a tier X tank in my tier T28 prototype, then I can do my best to avoid it. The only option I have when there is three tier X and IX artillery is to find the nearest rock and stay there if I want to avoid getting one shot. I don't have a problem with sometimes being steamrolled because of mm, but matches with 3+ artillery are just not fun. A simple limit of two per match would have helped a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the way wg want to solve it.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Obviously it is always harder to be bottom tier, but if I see a tier X tank in my tier T28 prototype, then I can do my best to avoid it. The only option I have when there is three tier X and IX artillery is to find the nearest rock and stay there if I want to avoid getting one shot. I don't have a problem with sometimes being steamrolled because of mm, but matches with 3+ artillery are just not fun. A simple limit of two per match would have helped a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the way wg want to solve it.

They are putting a limit of 3. I'd have no problem with a limit of 2.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,649
61
101
I thought this thread pretty much died, I guess not.

Regarding artillery, I've talked face to face with many WG employees, including Victor Kislyi (CEO) and Thaine Lyman (Head of Development). They know they screwed up the game by introducing arty, and are now trying to fix it. Not my words, but what they said themselves. I'm not sure how this can still even be argued, there are even several videos explaining how their focus is on fixing artillery, maps, balance and matchmaking.

I've also recently started streaming. Usually on Saturdays. If you'd like to support me by following that would be great, or just stop by and say hi next time I stream: https://www.twitch.tv/akulav_na

Those stats though! Don't play much anymore, but watching good tankers is always fun. I'll check you out
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
Overall I am pretty excited about the changes coming this year. Some new tanks, lots of rebalances, light tank MM changes, and a huge overhaul to the graphics engine.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,407
4,968
136
I thought this thread pretty much died, I guess not.

Regarding artillery, I've talked face to face with many WG employees, including Victor Kislyi (CEO) and Thaine Lyman (Head of Development). They know they screwed up the game by introducing arty, and are now trying to fix it. Not my words, but what they said themselves. I'm not sure how this can still even be argued, there are even several videos explaining how their focus is on fixing artillery, maps, balance and matchmaking.

I've also recently started streaming. Usually on Saturdays. If you'd like to support me by following that would be great, or just stop by and say hi next time I stream: https://www.twitch.tv/akulav_na

I started to play again so I thought to revive the thread.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
So something I just learned watching DezGamings latest video, when you are 'stunned' you can still move and operate normally. But your crew efficiency drops by 25%. So reloads, aim time, etc are all 25% higher. Originally i thought you were basically stuck not being able to move, but this is not the case.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
So something I just learned watching DezGamings latest video, when you are 'stunned' you can still move and operate normally. But your crew efficiency drops by 25%. So reloads, aim time, etc are all 25% higher. Originally i thought you were basically stuck not being able to move, but this is not the case.

They should just make arty shoot paintballs that put scratches on tanks' paint.

After a few seconds, the scratches are removed.
 

mooncancook

Platinum Member
May 28, 2003
2,874
50
91
I think before we have guided shells artillery is used for area effect only, they can't hit a single small target such as a tank, so what WG is doing with the artillery is very inaccurate.

I'm fine with artillery in the game, but I think they need to greatly reduce their accuracy and alpha damage while greatly increase their blast radius. This should also make it easier to counter arty as currently you just move a little after you fire a shot and usually you are safe as the counter shot land next to you. With a larger blast radius you'll receive some damages from the adjacent blast at least. I think the arty reload time can be reduced also. Finally, limit the number of arty to no more than 2 per side. I hope the new arty update will be a step closer to my ideal.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Unless I'm surprised, I'm expecting it probably won't be worth playing my arty anymore (261, gwe 100, fv304, that fun little French one, etc.)
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
Haven't they been threatening an arty nerf of one kind or another for 4+ years now? I seem to remember discussion about it going back to 2012 or so when I was actually trying to be involved in clan wars. I'll believe it when I see it.

Count me as another player who was never an arty fan. The appeal of the game to me was always tank brawls, not hiding behind rocks and houses to avoid the fist of God from the other side of the map. I've come back and played for few weeks several times over the last few years, but it never lasts.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
Haven't they been threatening an arty nerf of one kind or another for 4+ years now? I seem to remember discussion about it going back to 2012 or so when I was actually trying to be involved in clan wars. I'll believe it when I see it.

Count me as another player who was never an arty fan. The appeal of the game to me was always tank brawls, not hiding behind rocks and houses to avoid the fist of God from the other side of the map. I've come back and played for few weeks several times over the last few years, but it never lasts.

Yes, but this time they actually have the changes in the public sand box test servers.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I was watching a real story from a WWII vet, I think from Britain.

He told the story about how after D-Day, his group of tanks was going across the countryside patrolling.

Somehow they got an early indication of 8 Panzers coming, and they set up in cover. They assigned targets, and then all shot at once.

In seconds all eight panzers were destroyed. I find the story haunting for the horror.

But the relevance here is that the 'arty experience' can also be found in the real war - something a lot worse, really.

People will have different opinions. I find Arty adds to the game and it'll be a lesser game with the change.

I played by 261 yesterday, and the most damage I did to a tank was 50% to a tier , usually a good amoutn less.

Then I switched to other tanks and did more damage per shot like my t95. In fact, in a non-arty tank I was noticing they seemed to remove the reaver award, because I'd killed three enemies in three shots.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,407
4,968
136
The problem with arty is that they are very fun to play but not very fun to be in the receiving end. If they somehow where good to break stale mates then it would be fine, but they punish those who actually move away from cover.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
The problem with arty is that they are very fun to play but not very fun to be in the receiving end. If they somehow where good to break stale mates then it would be fine, but they punish those who actually move away from cover.

They give scouts their most fun gameplay.

Scouts are most useful scouting, but how many do that well? They LOVE to race into the enemy's backline and kill arty. Not much point when arty has no bite, if any are left.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
They give scouts their most fun gameplay.

Scouts are most useful scouting, but how many do that well? They LOVE to race into the enemy's backline and kill arty. Not much point when arty has no bite, if any are left.

With the current pen numbers, I think they could still pen most light tanks. So shotgunning lights will work I think. But have not had a light charge at me on the sandbox servers yet to test that theory.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
With the current pen numbers, I think they could still pen most light tanks. So shotgunning lights will work I think. But have not had a light charge at me on the sandbox servers yet to test that theory.

It doesn't work both ways on the fun. Arties do not enjoy shooting lights, even shotgunning them they can sometimes do.

You're sort of making my point, why should lights even bother when arties aren't damaging their team - less reason to play lights also.
 

gammaray

Senior member
Jul 30, 2006
859
17
81
Arty as it is ruins most of the maps, as between 50 to 90% of them are inaccessible due to instant death. So its boring because only a few spots are safe and even then, with moronic arty like the Brit's ones, no spots are safe. And even in ''safe'' spots, arty can and will relocate to kill us.

I would not play a game of jousting knights where Trebuchets could throw huge rocks at my knight and crush me while i am trying to kill another knight. It's unfortunate i spent 5 years ''hoping'' they would remove that horror from the game. too bad for me i already liked tanks before this game came online and got addicted. And crushed by arty my tanks did, and pissed off i got.

Honestly, if i could punch everyone responsible for implementing arty in this game i would. not enough to injure them but enough to leave a bruise on their shoulders.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
It seems like we just need two games, one for those who like arty in the game and one for those who don't.

Of course I already see the arty complaints being used now for td's. They ruin the game! Too many!
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Oh my. After posting, I started the game, and my first game happened to be on my E4. Ace tanker, during the even to get a mastery emblem.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
So after playing more on the sandbox servers, I find that arty seems like it has a larger impact now than before. When after hits some enemies causing their crew to be shell shocked, we are more likely to push knowing that they reloads and aim will be subpar. It does seem like their (arty) reload is faster than i think it should be. As it was changed to be shorter. But as a tanker, its nice to only be hit for ~350dmg from a ConqGC then insta-killed. I also really like that arty can mark where they will be hitting, as the much larger blast radius is something to keep away from.
 
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