Originally posted by: QuantumPion
UO's system worked so well because it was a fundamentally different gear system then WoW et al. In UO:
-There was very little "magic" gear that dropped from bosses, and those items weren't in very high demand.
-Since when you die you lose all your loot, generic player-crafted gear was in the highest demand.
-NPC vendors had a limited supply of goods which only refreshed occasionally, so pretty much all gear had to be player made.
-There were no classes, so every player could use every item. E.g. mages wearing plate, warriors using bows, etc.
UO had an amazing robust economy that truly was player driven. WoW's crafting system is basically just a way for non-raiders to get epics through grinding.
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Genx87
UO did it right. Miners mined, blacksmiths made items. Items got sold at a vendors house.
WoW's crafting system is the worst I have come across. Unless you want to make yourself a weapon there is literally no point in crafting. Most of the weapons at bind on pickup. Who thought that would foster a good crafting maket?
Edit: EVE's system is also very well done.
UO was the only game where crafting actually paid off for me. When I hit GM in blacksmithing it was like backing up the Brinks truck to my bank vault. And you could actually make cash along the way to allow you to keep crafting and raising skill.
Originally posted by: GenHoth
I always want to play a dedicated crafter, but the system is never good enough
Originally posted by: Dman877
The problem isn't the way crafting is structured in mmo's, it's the fact that mmo's are really nothing more than mindless scavenger hunts for equipment. What we need is more focus on story, adventure, fun. But why would that ever happen? Millions of mmo subscribers are willing to pay 15 bucks a month to scoop up the next uber item so they can be on an even playing field with everyone else and their uber items... and they then buy that expansion to get more uber items, again, to stay even with everyone else.
It's like an FPS game where you have to pay with your money and your time to have a fighting chance. If anyone knows of an mmp that breaks this mold, please enlighten me.
Originally posted by: Nohr
I loved crafting in SWG, back in '04 I think. Making swoop bikes and stuff that everybody needed and selling them on the Bazaar (which was awesome) or a vending machine in a store/home you owned. Plus there were always people that needed something specific crafted and would make it worth your while (AV-21 Landspeeder ftw!).
Surveying and extracting minerals kept me busy but it was fun to find something that had the right properties to make higher quality crafted goods. And every week new ones would show up. Thankfully there were player run websites that kept databases of what was on each planet, etc.
Ah good times. Glad I never bothered to grind out jedi though, sheesh. Did damn near everything else.
Originally posted by: BudAshes
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: BudAshes
I actually think star wars galaxies had the best crafting system. Too bad the combat sucked.
SWG's true powerhouses were the crafters, as there was almost no looted weapons that were good. Everything from guns to houses were crafted by the players.
That's just tipping the scale the other direction though. That's easy to do. The hard thing is to make both craftable items and loot very valuable and very fun for almost all players throughout the entire game.
Well loot is still valuable because the crafters need the loot to make the good items. For example you had to go off into the tatooine wilderness and fight gigantic krayt dragons to get scales that let weaponsmiths make more powerful blasters.
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Dman877
The problem isn't the way crafting is structured in mmo's, it's the fact that mmo's are really nothing more than mindless scavenger hunts for equipment. What we need is more focus on story, adventure, fun. But why would that ever happen? Millions of mmo subscribers are willing to pay 15 bucks a month to scoop up the next uber item so they can be on an even playing field with everyone else and their uber items... and they then buy that expansion to get more uber items, again, to stay even with everyone else.
It's like an FPS game where you have to pay with your money and your time to have a fighting chance. If anyone knows of an mmp that breaks this mold, please enlighten me.
UO wasn't like that. It's why I can't play any of these shit games like WoW.
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Dman877
The problem isn't the way crafting is structured in mmo's, it's the fact that mmo's are really nothing more than mindless scavenger hunts for equipment. What we need is more focus on story, adventure, fun. But why would that ever happen? Millions of mmo subscribers are willing to pay 15 bucks a month to scoop up the next uber item so they can be on an even playing field with everyone else and their uber items... and they then buy that expansion to get more uber items, again, to stay even with everyone else.
It's like an FPS game where you have to pay with your money and your time to have a fighting chance. If anyone knows of an mmp that breaks this mold, please enlighten me.
UO wasn't like that. It's why I can't play any of these shit games like WoW.
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Genx87
UO did it right. Miners mined, blacksmiths made items. Items got sold at a vendors house.
WoW's crafting system is the worst I have come across. Unless you want to make yourself a weapon there is literally no point in crafting. Most of the weapons at bind on pickup. Who thought that would foster a good crafting maket?
Edit: EVE's system is also very well done.
UO was the only game where crafting actually paid off for me. When I hit GM in blacksmithing it was like backing up the Brinks truck to my bank vault. And you could actually make cash along the way to allow you to keep crafting and raising skill.
UO had the best player and crafting economy. As mentioned EVE is second.
In general though(not crafting).
UO(pre felucia/trammel) stands as the Best MMO in my books.
Followed by Asheron's Call, DAoC(preToA).
WoW is and will always be crappy compared to them. I dont care if it has eleventy billion subscribers. It has that because 1. its Blizzard 2. South Korea(which makes up almost half of WoWs player base).
On a side note, I played UO more than all other MMOs Ive played combined.
Originally posted by: Dman877
When was UO released and how long did it last with a good player base? My first mmo was DAoC, before that, I played CS
Originally posted by: darkeneddays
Originally posted by: Dman877
When was UO released and how long did it last with a good player base? My first mmo was DAoC, before that, I played CS
UO started in 97 I believe. It had a good player base until probably 2000/2001. UO:R hurt the game instead of help it and more MMOs began to emerge around that time.
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: darkeneddays
Originally posted by: Dman877
When was UO released and how long did it last with a good player base? My first mmo was DAoC, before that, I played CS
UO started in 97 I believe. It had a good player base until probably 2000/2001. UO:R hurt the game instead of help it and more MMOs began to emerge around that time.
Actually UO:R helped the game in the short run. No more fear of PKs brought new players and old players back and people loved being able to kill monsters without fear of PKs. It grew in player base for a few years after that.
What killed it was AoS. Next to ToA the most idiotic expansion pack in the history of MMORPGs. They completely revamped the armor system, added really overpowering skills and weapons, and began a one way unstoppable trip down a track of adding more and more ridiculously powerful uber bosses and compensating for it with more and more insane weapons.
Right now you can be an archer and if your bow is "balanced" and has "spell channeling" you can chug potions and cast spells while simultaneously shooting arrows. And they added "repeating crossbows" which shoot arrows like a machine gun. LOL. And tamers can tame greater dragons and then train them up in skills and stats to be something like 800 hit points and, to top it off, if the dragon is a pet long enough, it becomes "bonded" and if it dies it follows you as a ghost and can be resurrected. As a result, the new player logs on to see everybody around him decked out in 20-200 million in armor and weapons and jewelry that can't be lost because AoS necessitated the addition of "item insurance" meaning you don't ever lose anything you have. That new player, by the way, still starts off with just 1,000 gold, a torch, and a blank book.
AoS turned UO into an item-based game where instead of grinding for levels you grind for gold to buy the crazy expensive uber items everybody else has. And once you have them you get to sit around on your ass cause all you've ever known is covetting and working towards thos euber items. It's like capitalism gone wrong.
Originally posted by: Xed
Swg had the best crafting system, imo. (I don't know if they broke it when they did that game restart or whatever the hell they called it)
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: darkeneddays
Originally posted by: Dman877
When was UO released and how long did it last with a good player base? My first mmo was DAoC, before that, I played CS
UO started in 97 I believe. It had a good player base until probably 2000/2001. UO:R hurt the game instead of help it and more MMOs began to emerge around that time.
Actually UO:R helped the game in the short run. No more fear of PKs brought new players and old players back and people loved being able to kill monsters without fear of PKs. It grew in player base for a few years after that.
What killed it was AoS. Next to ToA the most idiotic expansion pack in the history of MMORPGs. They completely revamped the armor system, added really overpowering skills and weapons, and began a one way unstoppable trip down a track of adding more and more ridiculously powerful uber bosses and compensating for it with more and more insane weapons.
Right now you can be an archer and if your bow is "balanced" and has "spell channeling" you can chug potions and cast spells while simultaneously shooting arrows. And they added "repeating crossbows" which shoot arrows like a machine gun. LOL. And tamers can tame greater dragons and then train them up in skills and stats to be something like 800 hit points and, to top it off, if the dragon is a pet long enough, it becomes "bonded" and if it dies it follows you as a ghost and can be resurrected. As a result, the new player logs on to see everybody around him decked out in 20-200 million in armor and weapons and jewelry that can't be lost because AoS necessitated the addition of "item insurance" meaning you don't ever lose anything you have. That new player, by the way, still starts off with just 1,000 gold, a torch, and a blank book.
AoS turned UO into an item-based game where instead of grinding for levels you grind for gold to buy the crazy expensive uber items everybody else has. And once you have them you get to sit around on your ass cause all you've ever known is covetting and working towards thos euber items. It's like capitalism gone wrong.