MMORPG similar to EQ1?

Playmaker

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
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I'm about to build a new computer and would like to try one of the newer MMORPGs. I haven't really played a PC game in almost 5 years, but I really liked Everquest 1 and played from release until quitting right after the expansion that added "instancing" came out (around summer 2003).

What would be the most similar option to try now? I've heard all about WoW's popularity, but is there a better option out there (given that Wow has been out for almost 4 years)? How does EQ2 compare? What about Vanguard?

I'm sure there's a reason WoW is so much more popular, and I'll end up going with that, but I wanted to see if there are any other opinions out there.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
I doubt you'll anything really like EQ1 again. These days, people like quick leveling, run and gun PvP, and extreme simplicity. I don't know what MMO you'd prefer, but I wouldn't go with Vanguard or WoW.

I've never seen an MMO crash and burn as fast as Vanguard did. Though SOE has done some amazing things to the game, and it looks great, it still has a multitude of problems. Unless you have an EXTREMELY powerful system, you are going to suffer hitching problems. My old E6600+4870 suffered a lot from hitching problems, which really disrupted the game for me. I haven't tried it with my new E8500 yet though.

And WoW, it caters to the lowest common denominator. Unless your IQ is below 50, I would stay away from that too. The game is filled with idiots. Its strength being that it runs on a lower end hardware, but it has little else to call a strength.

Everyone is getting excited about the Warhammer MMO right now, but I haven't really been following it. Age of Conan was really popular for a few weeks, but seems it didn't live up to people's expectations either.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Realize that there isn't anything like EQ1 and play WoW. Both are really good at what they set out to accomplish but you've got to go into each game with a different expectation.

EQ2 isn't like EQ1, it isn't a bad game either, but it is more like WoW and in that respect WoW does it better. The only thing I really liked about EQ2 was grinding out the various books for my house, but the further into the game you get the more bullshit the books get. My biggest problem with EQ2 and the reason I quit it was because of some serious engine issues that wouldn't allow it to run properly on my SLI 8800GT / 8GB memory / Quad Core / Vista 64 PC. I could literally have my FPS drop into the 11FPS range in a game that did not look nearly good enough to justify such a dip. Reading some of the tweak guides suggested pulling 1 of my video cards completely out of my PC and instead of trying such a ridiculous thing I said fuck it.

EQ2 would have been better, in my opinion, if monsters didn't "gray out". I don't think they used to back when it started out in 2005 either, but they've made a lot of changes. Basically, when a zone grays out you can run past every mob but if you kill anything you don't get loot for it. It's the most retarded mechanic ever.

WoW has some of EQ1's raiding environment, it also has faction grinding that puts velious to shame and a little crowd control capabilities. If you do end up playing WoW, I highly suggest you plan to join a decent guild, if for nothing else than to avoid pickup groups for any dungeon 1 - 70.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Originally posted by: skace


EQ2 would have been better, in my opinion, if monsters didn't "gray out". I don't think they used to back when it started out in 2005 either, but they've made a lot of changes. Basically, when a zone grays out you can run past every mob but if you kill anything you don't get loot for it. It's the most retarded mechanic ever.

Monster's always grayed out and become worthless for experience. Later updates widened the range, and alterations to party mechanics widened it further. But if you're a level 70, a level 20 zone is going to be gray to you. Nothing in there will give you adventure exp. Do you will want to be fighting level 10 gnolls at level 70 anyway?

You do still get loot for killing grays, but its mostly for coins at that point. Any items that they drop will be way below your level and worthless to you. They may be worth something on a broker or coins as vendor trash.
 

Ganeedi

Senior member
Jul 7, 2008
258
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0
OP - Can you give us some of the things you liked/ disliked about EQ1? That might help narrow the field a bit. The biggest difference between EQ1 and modern MMOs to me is the fact that you can play (most) of the modern ones solo.

Why do you want to play an MMO? Arguably, most single player PC games out there are superior in gameplay to the MMO grindfest. Not to derail the topic here...
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Ganeedi
OP - Can you give us some of the things you liked/ disliked about EQ1? That might help narrow the field a bit. The biggest difference between EQ1 and modern MMOs to me is the fact that you can play (most) of the modern ones solo.

Why do you want to play an MMO? Arguably, most single player PC games out there are superior in gameplay to the MMO grindfest. Not to derail the topic here...

/agree

If someone is looking for true RPG elements then they should stay clear of MMO's IMHO. If you want a social game then MMO's can be a good place to start with but then again so are other types of online game genres.

As for EQ1 well it's well past it's prime IMHO. Most folks who go back EQ1 do so and find out that it was not all it was cracked up to be in the end. Nostalgia of social moments spent camping spawns with friends is what they are looking for and if that is the case then there many MMOs or online games that can provide socialization.
 

mikelish

Senior member
Apr 26, 2003
325
0
76
there are hacked EQ1 servers that have improved on EQ1. Shards of dalaya is my favorite
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
Honestly, if you liked EQ1 and want to play a MMORPG like it, you really have no option anymore.

None of the newer MMORPGS have the same feeling of EQ1. The reason for the feel in EQ1 is simply a death penalty. You go somewhere, you get whacked my monsters and die, you have to get your corpse and lose exp. It felt fun because there was a danger element to it.

This has been completely removed in newer RPGS. For example, Age of Conan, there is absolutely NO penalty for death, you just respawn with all your gear, and all you lose is 5% of your attributes for 30 minutes or less, but attributes mean nothing in that game. A player with 100 intelligence is not really any different than a player with 150 intelligence. In EQ1 that meant alot of mana, in Age of Conan, stats mean nothing, and by the time you get back to your hunting grounds, the penalty has expired anyhow.

WoW, same thing. No game can replicate the feeling of EQ1 because every developer is too stupid to put in a death penalty because they feel they will lose subscribers.

Trust me, if you liked EQ1, you will be bored out of your mind playing WoW. Its just whack a mob over and over and over with no penalty, so it feels like a 3d Gauntlet game. I tried WoW because of all the hype, got to lvl 62 with a rogue and I had absolutely no interest in playing that game another day or another class. I played it for a few months, and did every dungeon, and I was bored the entire time.

Plain and simple. Don't waste your time with MMORPGS anymore until a good one comes out, and I don't see any in development which even include a death penalty.

Other things to consider in why newer MMORPGs suck:

1) No drop gear. Everything is nodrop these days, so you can't really trade gear. Which takes out an element of camping monsters and selling loot, or finding a rare mob and making money doesn't exist anymore.

2) Monty hall gear drops, an uber item drops all the time so whats the point of buying it when you can just walk into said "instance" and get the item whenever you want, since its never going to be camped anyways from someone else since you have your own personal hunting ground.

3) Stupid AI. AI is dumped down to run and attack you until it dies. EQ1 had mobs which sat back and casted spells (and eventually ran away) to running mobs, to mezzers, buffers which you had to anti magic, aggro range, managing pulls. None of that exists today. You usually always know what you are going to get when you pull and in some games, it even tells you what you are going to get, and every single time the mobs run up to you and start whacking. Monster AI has taken a severe nose dive, and tactics in battle just don't really exist. Its tank do an AE attack to get aggro, cleric heal the tank, everybody else nukes/attacks monster until they are dead. So you have a tank, healer and DPS. Thats it. EQ1 every class had a point and they were all useful in some way. Big deal, rogues can mez in WoW, hunters can lay traps on ground to root the target... But it only really matters when you have 2 raid mobs to fight that would normally kill the raid. There is nothing "epic" about the battles as you would see in EQ1 raid zones. Especially when planes of power game out, which really required some brain knowledge on how to kill raid mobs.

4) Instances... Personal playgrounds for you or your party, no camps to fight over, personally dungeons for you and your group. You always know whats going to happen. There is no fighting for a camp spot, there is no help from outsiders in case of a wipe. They removed the social element to the games.

Honestly. They are removing the social elements (which can be positive or negative, but anyway you look at it, the social element either way is fun.) The closest thing to EQ1 is EQ2 these days, and that is a big leap, EQ2 has all those things negatives listed above, but it does have a more similar feel to EQ1 compared to the rest. Go with EQ2 if you have to play a newer game, but you are better off not doing anything.




 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Monster's always grayed out and become worthless for experience. Later updates widened the range, and alterations to party mechanics widened it further. But if you're a level 70, a level 20 zone is going to be gray to you. Nothing in there will give you adventure exp. Do you will want to be fighting level 10 gnolls at level 70 anyway?

You do still get loot for killing grays, but its mostly for coins at that point. Any items that they drop will be way below your level and worthless to you. They may be worth something on a broker or coins as vendor trash.

It was actually an important aspect of EQ1. Back when Level 50 was the cap you used to have to run through Upperguk to get to Lowerguk and although upperguk was worlds easier than your level, because mobs would still agro and then chain agro other mobs it was insanely dangerous even then. Graying out ruined this aspect of danger. There were many, many scenarios I could bring up where green monsters would kill you in EQ1 that would be grayed out and non-threats in recent MMOs.

And while someone level 70 killing level 10s might get vendor trash, I had many times where monsters would gray out on me before I could get good loot from them and still could have benefited from it. Usually when we are talking about names that drop the good stuff. It wasn't a big deal, but ridiculous none the less.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Drift3r
As for EQ1 well it's well past it's prime IMHO. Most folks who go back EQ1 do so and find out that it was not all it was cracked up to be in the end. Nostalgia of social moments spent camping spawns with friends is what they are looking for and if that is the case then there many MMOs or online games that can provide socialization.

I've gone back to EQ1 many, many times. The UI usually takes me about 1-2 hours each time to familiarize myself with because WoW and other games have much, much better UIs, but beyond that the gameplay is still really enjoyable. I usually go back and 2box my druid/enchanter combo and it's still a very rewarding system.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: brandonb
This has been completely removed in newer RPGS. For example, Age of Conan, there is absolutely NO penalty for death, you just respawn with all your gear, and all you lose is 5% of your attributes for 30 minutes or less, but attributes mean nothing in that game. A player with 100 intelligence is not really any different than a player with 150 intelligence. In EQ1 that meant alot of mana, in Age of Conan, stats mean nothing, and by the time you get back to your hunting grounds, the penalty has expired anyhow.

The first thing I learned in AoC was that suicide could seriously cut down on my travel time. It helped me level quicker than other people but felt cheap as hell.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Can you still play EQ1? I mean, are there still official servers?

Last I checked, yup and they still have people. Pretty crazy.
 

Playmaker

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,584
0
0
Originally posted by: brandonb
Honestly, if you liked EQ1 and want to play a MMORPG like it, you really have no option anymore.

None of the newer MMORPGS have the same feeling of EQ1. The reason for the feel in EQ1 is simply a death penalty. You go somewhere, you get whacked my monsters and die, you have to get your corpse and lose exp. It felt fun because there was a danger element to it.

This has been completely removed in newer RPGS. For example, Age of Conan, there is absolutely NO penalty for death, you just respawn with all your gear, and all you lose is 5% of your attributes for 30 minutes or less, but attributes mean nothing in that game. A player with 100 intelligence is not really any different than a player with 150 intelligence. In EQ1 that meant alot of mana, in Age of Conan, stats mean nothing, and by the time you get back to your hunting grounds, the penalty has expired anyhow.

WoW, same thing. No game can replicate the feeling of EQ1 because every developer is too stupid to put in a death penalty because they feel they will lose subscribers.

Trust me, if you liked EQ1, you will be bored out of your mind playing WoW. Its just whack a mob over and over and over with no penalty, so it feels like a 3d Gauntlet game. I tried WoW because of all the hype, got to lvl 62 with a rogue and I had absolutely no interest in playing that game another day or another class. I played it for a few months, and did every dungeon, and I was bored the entire time.

Plain and simple. Don't waste your time with MMORPGS anymore until a good one comes out, and I don't see any in development which even include a death penalty.

Other things to consider in why newer MMORPGs suck:

1) No drop gear. Everything is nodrop these days, so you can't really trade gear. Which takes out an element of camping monsters and selling loot, or finding a rare mob and making money doesn't exist anymore.

2) Monty hall gear drops, an uber item drops all the time so whats the point of buying it when you can just walk into said "instance" and get the item whenever you want, since its never going to be camped anyways from someone else since you have your own personal hunting ground.

3) Stupid AI. AI is dumped down to run and attack you until it dies. EQ1 had mobs which sat back and casted spells (and eventually ran away) to running mobs, to mezzers, buffers which you had to anti magic, aggro range, managing pulls. None of that exists today. You usually always know what you are going to get when you pull and in some games, it even tells you what you are going to get, and every single time the mobs run up to you and start whacking. Monster AI has taken a severe nose dive, and tactics in battle just don't really exist. Its tank do an AE attack to get aggro, cleric heal the tank, everybody else nukes/attacks monster until they are dead. So you have a tank, healer and DPS. Thats it. EQ1 every class had a point and they were all useful in some way. Big deal, rogues can mez in WoW, hunters can lay traps on ground to root the target... But it only really matters when you have 2 raid mobs to fight that would normally kill the raid. There is nothing "epic" about the battles as you would see in EQ1 raid zones. Especially when planes of power game out, which really required some brain knowledge on how to kill raid mobs.

4) Instances... Personal playgrounds for you or your party, no camps to fight over, personally dungeons for you and your group. You always know whats going to happen. There is no fighting for a camp spot, there is no help from outsiders in case of a wipe. They removed the social element to the games.

Honestly. They are removing the social elements (which can be positive or negative, but anyway you look at it, the social element either way is fun.) The closest thing to EQ1 is EQ2 these days, and that is a big leap, EQ2 has all those things negatives listed above, but it does have a more similar feel to EQ1 compared to the rest. Go with EQ2 if you have to play a newer game, but you are better off not doing anything.

That doesn't sound encouraging. I completely agree on the death penalty. The points you hit on are many of the same I would pick out as what made EQ1 fun, especially 2, 3, and 4. One of my favorite parts of EQ1 was raid pulling as a Monk ... point 3 sounds like the aspect doesn't exist in other games. On point 4, I hated the concept of instancing, but didn't play much after LDoN introduced. I just don't like the concept of removing scarcity of mobs.

It also sounds like the general consensus is WoW attracts idiots? When I didn't raid in EQ, I never had a problem getting into quality pick-up groups at any level, and even had many large-scale pick-up raids (often 50+ players, parts of 3-4 guilds plus randoms) go smoothly. It sounds like that isn't common in WoW.
 

Playmaker

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,584
0
0
Originally posted by: Ganeedi
OP - Can you give us some of the things you liked/ disliked about EQ1? That might help narrow the field a bit. The biggest difference between EQ1 and modern MMOs to me is the fact that you can play (most) of the modern ones solo.

Why do you want to play an MMO? Arguably, most single player PC games out there are superior in gameplay to the MMO grindfest. Not to derail the topic here...

I kind of hit on it in my other post, but mostly the social aspect. I enjoyed the grind, pick-up groups, and raids. Velious-era EQ1 is still probably my favorite PC game of all time.

WoW sounded appealing because it seems like the small raid sizes might facilitate the more casual player. I was never able to put big hours in EQ1, so I was always in a lower tier guild, and while I still enjoyed raiding, it seemed like the best raid content was always geared to the power-gamer with it falling to the more casual gamer after ~6 months. There wasn't much designed directly toward the more casual gamer in each expansion.

I was never a roleplayer, and I'm not a fan of single player games. Even games with a supposedly amazing story (eg Bioshock on 360) lose my interest quickly. EQ1 and CS make up 95% of my PC game history.
 

ViviTheMage

Lifer
Dec 12, 2002
36,189
87
91
madgenius.com
WoW is allright, but it is more enjoyable in a mature guild, doing raids and structured PVP....I do no tknow why everyone bashes WoW so much, I love it. Probably becuase my friends and my little brother are in the same guild, so when we PvP we lan and reaally enjoy it.

AoC is pretty poor, as stated before the stats don't work....the talents really don't work either. The game is broken atm, if you want to try it, go ahead...but I was in the early release, and then purchased it, and all the time it was bjorked pretty bad :-/.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
I was a huge EQ fan. After reading this thread I honestly am tempted to try it out again cause I have had some of my best gaming experiences with that game. It is so true about the death penalty. I was scared to go into unknown areas or travel through some spots. I remember making the epic long journey from Qeynos to Freeport and being nervous the entire time, and that trip would take a couple of hours alone, getting lost in Highpass Hold's maze of mountain paths, seeing giants and other crazy stuff. De'lvln alone scared the hell out of ya, especially at the "hell levels" 30, 40, 50 where you would lose a whole bar of exp.

In WoW, you never feel nervous to try anything cause the worse that can happen is you lose a few gold and a tiny bit of time. EQ, I remember when in dungeons with groups, and we knew we were gonna wipe would start yelling train to the exit or just try to get a safe area to die so you can res and safely lol.

Anyways, closes MMO I've found to EQ1 is actually Lineage 2. (I haven't played it in quite sometime so things may have changed)
Hardcore grind but they made it more friendly from my understanding, death penatly you lose exp and depending on how you are flagged at the time (PvP killer or just PvPer, or not PvP at all) you have a chance to drop items or receive a temp debuff to stats. There are no instances, guilds are a huge part of the gaming and so is PVP. You can raid forts and control them as a guild and charge tax's on the land so your guild makes more money. Gear is normally pretty rough as well, a lot of decent/good stuff you can get crafted as well as some really nice items but some of the best thing drop from raid mobs and you have to worry about another raid going for it as well.

L2 is pretty hardcore though but I did have a lot of fun playing it and have been tempted to try it out again from time to time. All expansions for it are free as well, I think they have like 6 total so far.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
I do no tknow why everyone bashes WoW so much, I love it.

Because it is cool to bash MMORPGs (except for Eve), just like it is cool to bash Vista in the Operating Systems subforum, TigerDirect / TVs with less than 4 HDMI ports / TN monitors in Hot Deals, Bose / Monster Cable in the AV subforum, GWB in the social subforums, and any programming language other than C#, C / C++, Python and Assembly in the Programming subforum.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Playmaker
It also sounds like the general consensus is WoW attracts idiots?

No, that's not true. The reality of the situation is that there are A LOT of people in WoW and because of this there are a lot of guilds and the intelligent people find and join decent guilds relatively quickly, this means that all of the retards usually end up guildless and pubbing it which means if you decide to use pubs for your leveling needs you have a good chance of finding someone retarded. It's not always the case, but it really isn't worth the chance when you can find a solid guild and really have some fun without the bullshit.

In my case, I found my guild in beta, so I had so fewer headaches until much later when I decided to roll some alts. Beta had such an awesome community.

EQ1 also had retards, the difference though is that reputation in EQ was everything, it was a pain in the ass to level and grouping was required for everything so people generally acted nice, however there was so much passive aggressive bullshit in EQ.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Sorry, WoW is 99% idiots. That doesn't make it a bad game, it's just how it is. It has all of Blizzard's games' hallmarks - polish, low hardware requirements, addictive gameplay and... retarded players.

You're ready to set out and adventure. With sword and board in hand, you prepare to fight evil and help the good folk of Azeroth that you come across. But the folk you come across are elven hunters named "Ishootuded" and "Gratehuntner", and all they have to say is "y 2 ur b plz wut??????" . . . There are ways to avoid the stupidity; you can turn off chat channels including say and yell, you can turn off player names, you can even get addons that will only allow players on your friends list to whisper you, or convert tardspeak into English (eg. turns u -> you, wut -> what, etc.) When all's said and done though, it just isn't the same.

There will never be another EQ1, the difficulty which was so unappealing to the masses, thus making it such a nice sanctuary from them, is exactly what kills it now that MMORPGs are big business. The upshot though is much better gameplay. EQ1 was pretty much just autoattacking or casting one spell. Your UI options were also limited. Current MMORPG combat systems are complex and engaging, and the only UI limits are in terms of automation - it can look however you damn well please. There's even a Hello Kitty themed UI out for WoW, frightening as it sounds.

In the end WoW's worth the purchase price. $50 + $15/month will get you at least a month or three of entertainment, which is more than most titles - as it's pretty much universally agreed that the leveling / questing / exploring aspect of the game is a blast. Whether it's worth it past there is subjective.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Agree.
The difficulty in EQ1 is just too much for the spoon fed WOW crowd. There were so many things that were annoying in EQ1 but that also made it fun to play. The feeling of knowing that if you died you were going to pay for it was both good and bad. I will never forget all the times TRAIN was shouted in crushbone. Or the times that a really good group would form and play for hours without the hand holding that people require now.

IF you played your class well then you made a name for yourself and were welcomed to groups. Players per server were much lower as well making it a tighter community.

The term 'corpse run' needs to be immortalized somewhere.

I haven't found a current MMORPG that I like. They all seem to be lacking something. Hoping Warhammer will fill the void.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Agree.
The difficulty in EQ1 is just too much for the spoon fed WOW crowd. There were so many things that were annoying in EQ1 but that also made it fun to play. The feeling of knowing that if you died you were going to pay for it was both good and bad. I will never forget all the times TRAIN was shouted in crushbone. Or the times that a really good group would form and play for hours without the hand holding that people require now.

IF you played your class well then you made a name for yourself and were welcomed to groups. Players per server were much lower as well making it a tighter community.

The term 'corpse run' needs to be immortalized somewhere.

I haven't found a current MMORPG that I like. They all seem to be lacking something. Hoping Warhammer will fill the void.

Ahh good memories.

I remember when I would log on my cleric I was spammed instantly before the screen even finished loading being asked to join a group. It was nice

That is something else you reminded me of with groups, I remember the quality of the player in EQ to be leagues above other MMO players in skill. It was very rare a group didn't work and like you said when you had a really good group people would stay as long as possible and would even line up a replacement or give you the group enough warning to find a replacement to get to your camp.

I remember there be very long waiting lists for replacements of groups in Sol B. It would be a few days before your name would come up on the list sometimes lol
 

Playmaker

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,584
0
0
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Agree.
The difficulty in EQ1 is just too much for the spoon fed WOW crowd. There were so many things that were annoying in EQ1 but that also made it fun to play. The feeling of knowing that if you died you were going to pay for it was both good and bad. I will never forget all the times TRAIN was shouted in crushbone. Or the times that a really good group would form and play for hours without the hand holding that people require now.

IF you played your class well then you made a name for yourself and were welcomed to groups. Players per server were much lower as well making it a tighter community.

The term 'corpse run' needs to be immortalized somewhere.

I haven't found a current MMORPG that I like. They all seem to be lacking something. Hoping Warhammer will fill the void.

What about Warhammer will be better?

It seems like a (relatively) serious death penalty, the necessity of grouping, and no instancing is what set early EQ apart from all the more recent options.

I'll probably give WoW a try, though. With 10m+ subscribers I feel like I have to at least do that.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Ultima Online pre-UO:R was the best MMORPG ever. No modern games can even compare.

DAoC was pretty decent for a while...Catacombs really screwed it up, and some classes were very unbalanced, sure, but the PvP could be loads of fun.

LoTRO is great as a social game. Gameplay can be a bit clunky at times, but it does combine some bits of skill, more so than a game that's just pound on the buttons as fast as possible until you win.

Guildwars was neat, for about two hours.

All of it, though, pales in comparison to the glory that was the most addictive game ever. It was ruined with UO:R, though. Made it too easy. No fear of losing items when you die...nothing. Oh well. Maybe another good MMO will come out.
 
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