MOBA- some info help

[clok1966]

tons of these games DOTA, DOTA 2, LoL Smite, etc... I did play (few hours) the original WC3 mod way back, but lost interest. I must have missed something and now have been watching DOTA2 in spectator and have some interest again. I don't really feel like paying $30 to beta test it as it will be free on release.. SMITE looks interesting.. somebody want to give me some INs and Outs of each (or any I didn't list?) minus the "it sucks" comments.. Sont like one, no problem, why is it bad? or why is it good?

 

[darkewaffle]

Bloodline Champions is king.

 

[KaOTiK]

Free DOTA 2
http://steamcommunity.com/id/dota2bot

 

[Chiropteran]

I'd highly recommend Dota 2 to a new player into the genre. For one thing, Dota 2 is basically the same as the original Dota, with updated graphics on a superior engine. For another, it's completely 100% free in every way that effects you performance in game- all champions unlocked from the start.

LoL (League of Legends) is also pretty newbie friendly, but I can't recommend it because you can't really even play the real game until you grind literally for months to level your summoner up to 30, and even more time if you want to unlock champions. This process can be accelerated by paying cash, but why do that when you can play Dota 2 for free? I did enjoy LoL quite a bit before Dota 2's beta release, but now that both are easily available I don't see much reason to play LoL anymore.

Also, even though both games are "free", Dota does require a steam account, which means it's much more of a hassle to create a new smurf account. What this means for you, as a new player, is that when you start playing Dota 2 you will actually get matched up with new Dota 2 players more often than not. LoL on the other hand makes it a little bit too easy to create new accounts, which means a lot of the low level new players are really smurfs who are just trying to go for easy pub stomp victories.

 

[clok1966]

thanks to you both Kaotik (will be using link tonight) and Chiro for a good overview of 2 of them. I always worry it will turn into a pissing match when comparing games.. excellent info.

 

[crownjules]

DOTA2 is DOTA on the Source engine. If you have experience with the former then that should transate well over to the other.

LoL is somewhat the same as DOTA with a few changes here and there to mechanics. No denying. It's generally faster paced with more emphasis on using abilities. On the negative side, the meta is much more restricted. As Chiro points out, you don't really start playing in earnest until your reach level 30 and you've unlocked all the various bonuses. This can be a good or bad thing depending on how you view it. It may be frustrating to an experienced MOBA player who learns the mechanics and champions very quick. But to a complete newbie, it allows you to gradually learn the game over time.

Bloodlines Champions is an arena style MOBA. There's no leveling or item buying. No bases to knock down. The skill level required is much higher because most every ability is a skillshot. Matches go fast naturally, but there is a time limit too if you try to drag it out too long.

SMITE is DOTA/LoL but from a 3rd person POV. It's still in beta but will be F2P once released.

There's a few other games but they don't command nearly as much attention.

 

[clok1966]

I worry about learning curve. I used to ladder in Warcraft II.. I played my first few WCIII (way back when it came out) with a game title "new player match" and was smoked so hard I thought I was weed at the local highschool. I attributed it to somebody wanting easy kills, but after at least 20 some tries with almost the same results I gave up.. I do hold my own in most Online PvP games.. I worry about the azz beating happens to often you lose interest quick. Games that attempt to match like players is a good thing.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I worry about learning curve. I used to ladder in Warcraft II.. I played my first few WCIII (way back when it came out) with a game title "new player match" and was smoked so hard I thought I was weed at the local highschool. I attributed it to somebody wanting easy kills, but after at least 20 some tries with almost the same results I gave up.. I do hold my own in most Online PvP games.. I worry about the azz beating happens to often you lose interest quick. Games that attempt to match like players is a good thing.

If you're worried about that both LOL and DoTA 2 have bot matches. They are a great way to practice and get the hang of playing.
Just remember, some heroes are harder to play than others.

 

[thujone]

yeah i go back and forth between being interested in MOBA type games and flat out despising them. and it IS mostly due to the fact that i'm terrible at these types of games. the one thing i will say... is that DOTA2's community is soooooooooooooooooooooo much nicer to noobs than LOL. LOL's community is the #1 reason i quit playing that game.


but yeah... i just recently started playing dota2... any suggestions on noob friendly champs to start with?

 

[KaOTiK]

We have a big Dota 2 thread some where and the last few pages have a lot of info for beginners with links as well.

 

[Zeze]

Dota 2 is basically free, no one really pays for beta. Valve has been flooding everyone with invites. I have like 12 passes. PM me your email if you want 'em.

The critically acclaimed newbie guide:

Welcome to Dota, you suck

Also reddit.com/r/dota2 is VERY active.

/r/sharedota2 is where they'll give you tons of invites.

I probably play most Dota here in this forum (Diamond top 1%, but I'm a nobody pubstar). Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[clok1966]

communication- all txt? it have voice (built in) or anything? Kaotik, once again thanks for link (worked great) plan to give it a go tonight .

 

[Zeze]

communication- all txt? it have voice (built in) or anything? Kaotik, once again thanks for link (worked great) plan to give it a go tonight .

Yea it has a very nice mic feature. Press a key to turn it on or leave it on open mic. We use it all the time like counterstrike.

They also have a chat wheel for quick chat messages (similar to CS- I need help, go back!, stun him!, etc).

 

[aizdaman]

I was not really into these games much due to the click to move aspect but I have been throughly enjoying Smite. Great game and I plan on playing it after release as well.

 

[clok1966]

Well thanks all for the responses, last night the bots owned me.. Yes I do understand how sad that is. I have read the guides about "feeding" and i was dying and feeding the other side way to much. I can see there is some skill involved here.. and teammate play is going to dictate allot of how you play.

so im guessing till i can win a few bot match's I should stay out of live?

 

[Olikan]

so im guessing till i can win a few bot match's I should stay out of live?

nah... use bots are just to you train your hero combos, last hit and overall feel...
low level pubs players are actually worse than most bot levels

 

[bguile]

Well thanks all for the responses, last night the bots owned me.. Yes I do understand how sad that is. I have read the guides about "feeding" and i was dying and feeding the other side way to much. I can see there is some skill involved here.. and teammate play is going to dictate allot of how you play.

so im guessing till i can win a few bot match's I should stay out of live?

I'm in the same boat. Played against the bots today and my 'side' won twice, but it was nothing I did. I can barely get last hits in, not too mention I can't even figure out how to use items.

I read the 'you suck at dota' guide and watched some movies, but it's alot to take in.

 

[crownjules]

I'm in the same boat. Played against the bots today and my 'side' won twice, but it was nothing I did. I can barely get last hits in, not too mention I can't even figure out how to use items.

I read the 'you suck at dota' guide and watched some movies, but it's alot to take in.

The learning curve is more like a learning cliff. You have so much information to digest - general game mechanics, mechanics unique to each of the 100+ guys you can pick, synergies between the heroes, what all the items do, map layout, and so on. It's not something you can pick up in just a few games.

 

[bguile]

...mechanics unique to each of the 100+ guys you can pick, synergies between the heroes, ...

Those two things have me worried the most. I don't realistically see anyway that I can remember 100+ different characters weakness and strengths, not to mention interactions between them.

 

[BergeLSU]

I'm in the same boat. Played against the bots today and my 'side' won twice, but it was nothing I did. I can barely get last hits in, not too mention I can't even figure out how to use items.

I read the 'you suck at dota' guide and watched some movies, but it's alot to take in.

It really takes a long time. I've spectated games of new players and have said to myself "I remember when I did that." A mentor system would be great, honestly.

Things off the top of my head that I made notes of:

• Never buy boots with starting gold - you need stats for better last hitting and more hp.
• Rarely will you need more than one health potion at the start. The usual starting build is 1 health potion, 1 set of tangos and stats (like iron branches). I always start with 2 sets of tangos and no potions.
• Don't run to the fountain from your lane and back unless you are absolutely about to die. You lose an incredible amount of XP/gold doing so. If you are about to die and have no TP scroll, run to base and TP back to the lane.
• Don't autoattack the enemy creeps. This will push your creep wave towards their tower so you are less protected by yours.
• Wards are very important.
• Make sure every game has a courier. NEVER run back to the fountain to buy items.
• Have a TP on you.
• Use the quick-buy menu. Shift left-click the item you plan on buying next and it appears in the box on the bottom right.
• There is a shop on each of the side lanes. They are hidden in the woods near the bottom right and top left of the map. Here you can buy boots, TPs and a few other basic items (including a few things that are in the secret shop).
• If you think you are about to die, buy a TP. (there is a quick-buy TP scroll button that never goes away). Chances are you will want it when you respawn, and you would lose most of that money anyway if you die.
• This game is hard. The mechanics are complicated and there are 97 heroes who all play differently. It's not enough to just know the skills of the hero you are playing, but you need to know what your enemies are capable of. If you are playing with bots (custom game, 4 bots and you vs 5 bots), pause the game when you get into the lane and check the enemy skills. You should know if they have stuns.

 

[Olikan]

Those two things have me worried the most. I don't realistically see anyway that I can remember 100+ different characters weakness and strengths, not to mention interactions between them.

no worry...this is exacly what makes dota so good and addictive...

you will be playing this game for 5 years straight and still be amazed by some akward but effective combos

 

[clok1966]

Ok more questions, I spent far to much time in bot match's and can help team win constantly (I think) now. Hero you pick and your skill with them is quit a big deal.

Item shop: I assume you can only get items on your person when in your base (it looks that way) .. I have my stash.. stuff like the +1 stat branchs.. do i need to click or somthing to use them, or once purchased are they just 'active" I bought a bracer.. does it need to be equipped? I notice when i bring my guy up (small magnifying glass in corner of picture) there are slots around him, can i slot stuff in those buy buying it or? I'm pretty unclear on Items. I noticed the courier.. how does it work? if i buys stuff out int he filed does it automatically bring it or is there some way to make come?

general comments: wow is last hit hard or what (for a noob), this looks like its going to take some real time to figure out..

it seems i can press my lane to a tower fairly easy and destroy it.. but i see some guides say not to do this till later in game. My question is towers.. are they anything more then Defence? do they speed up or slow creeps spawn rate? by taking one down other then enemy losing a static defense is there other advantages to removing them?

I'm seeing this game is alot more big picture then most.. its not the standard remove X to remove Y game.. its more about building your hero and late game pushs.. or am i wrong?

 

[Dijeangenie]

y. the one thing i will say... is that DOTA2's community is soooooooooooooooooooooo much nicer to noobs than LOL.

I agree with this to some extent, I was very much surprised how nice the Dota 2 community was when I recently started playing (having not played a MOBA for a few years). However I realised its because loads of new people are joining the game and new people tend not to flame each other. Having played a few games and progressed on to slightly better standard players, I can tell you that the community becomes pretty similar to games like LOL in my experience :/

 

[BergeLSU]

general comments: wow is last hit hard or what (for a noob), this looks like its going to take some real time to figure out..

it seems i can press my lane to a tower fairly easy and destroy it.. but i see some guides say not to do this till later in game. My question is towers.. are they anything more then Defence? do they speed up or slow creeps spawn rate? by taking one down other then enemy losing a static defense is there other advantages to removing them?

I'm seeing this game is alot more big picture then most.. its not the standard remove X to remove Y game.. its more about building your hero and late game pushs.. or am i wrong?

Towers are really only there to slow the creep waves when they push too far down a lane. Creeps spawn every 30 seconds. At certain time intervals, the creep waves get larger. Destroying the enemy Barracks is what makes your own creeps stronger.

The idea behind not destroying a tower is that it gives a lot more room for the other team to farm. If the creep wave is at their second tower, you should feel very nervous about trying to farm it, because you become very easy to gank. The exception to this is if you can push several towers quickly, which ends up trapping the other team in their own base.

Ok more questions, I spent far to much time in bot match's and can help team win constantly (I think) now. Hero you pick and your skill with them is quit a big deal.

Item shop: I assume you can only get items on your person when in your base (it looks that way) .. I have my stash.. stuff like the +1 stat branchs.. do i need to click or somthing to use them, or once purchased are they just 'active" I bought a bracer.. does it need to be equipped? I notice when i bring my guy up (small magnifying glass in corner of picture) there are slots around him, can i slot stuff in those buy buying it or? I'm pretty unclear on Items. I noticed the courier.. how does it work? if i buys stuff out int he filed does it automatically bring it or is there some way to make come?

You get item bonuses only if they are "equipped," meaning they are on your hero, taking up one of his 6 item slots.

If you buy something when you aren't near a shop (or if your slots are filled), the item you bought gets put in your stash. This does not give you any bonuses.

The idea is to buy something while you are in your lane, and it gets put in your stash. The courier can bring you your stuff without you having to leave your lane. There is a button on the bottom right which gives the courier a command to take everything from your stash and bring it to you.

 

[Robert Munch]

I agree with this to some extent, I was very much surprised how nice the Dota 2 community was when I recently started playing (having not played a MOBA for a few years). However I realised its because loads of new people are joining the game and new people tend not to flame each other. Having played a few games and progressed on to slightly better standard players, I can tell you that the community becomes pretty similar to games like LOL in my experience :/

Dota 2's community isn't all that stellar once you start ranking up to mid level games. You'll get people that will give you some harsh responses if you fail to live up to their expectations.

Even more annoying if you are solo queue with 4 stacks on your team.