MoCA 2.0

[alagema]

Hi

Where can i find a MoCA 2.0 (e-band) Network Adapter ?

Thanks

 

[azazel1024]

TL;DR no where

Long story is, MoCA 2.0 seems to have existed for all of about 5 minutes with a couple of manufacturers who made MoCA 2.0 adapters. Then everyone except basically Actiontec stopped making MoCA products. Actiontec has only ever made MoCA 1.1 and that is all they do now and they are basically the only one still making MoCA products.

So you are unlikely to ever find a MoCA 2.0 bridge in existance.

As for a network adapter, I assume you mean NIC, no such thing exists to the best of my knowledge. You'd need to get an ethernet to MoCA bridge.

 

[kevnich2]

Sad cause moca actually works. I find powerline to be very hit or miss a lot of the time. I know arris is making products very similar to actiontec as Bright House is coming out with a moca ethernet solution for extending wifi in houses. Maybe get a few service providers on board and maybe see moca make a come back. I still string cat5 to every room so I've never needed it myself.

 

[azazel1024]

I think the issue is that MoCA works well enough for v1.1. It is 170Mbps in theory. In practice that varies and a lot of products are fast ethernet on their ports. I don't know how much coax quality impacts speed on something like v2, but it very well could be that the extra speeds that 2.0 is supposed to delivery is much more sensitive to the quality and installation of your coax. Could be part of the reason it appeared and disappeared so quickly.

For telecos right now, the thing is...why would they care? for whole house streaming, VOD, basic internet service, etc, 170Mbps is MASSIVE overkill. In most cases they are caring about 4-8Mbps per set top box for VOD or remote streaming from a central DVR. For internet, since most are cable cos and even some of the fiber guys like Verizon (for FIOS), they are caring up supporting a 25-50Mbps generally. The outliers have things like 75-105Mbps internet connections...and even then, for the WHOLE coax network, it can probably support that plus a few VOD/whole house DVR video streams and work fine.

In a few years they might see a need, if/when 4k over the wire becomes a thing and/or internet speeds increase even more. Until then, for what the ISP cares about delivering to you, it is overkill and 1.1 does just dandy.

 

[TazExprez]

I think the issue is that MoCA works well enough for v1.1. It is 170Mbps in theory. In practice that varies and a lot of products are fast ethernet on their ports. I don't know how much coax quality impacts speed on something like v2, but it very well could be that the extra speeds that 2.0 is supposed to delivery is much more sensitive to the quality and installation of your coax. Could be part of the reason it appeared and disappeared so quickly.

For telecos right now, the thing is...why would they care? for whole house streaming, VOD, basic internet service, etc, 170Mbps is MASSIVE overkill. In most cases they are caring about 4-8Mbps per set top box for VOD or remote streaming from a central DVR. For internet, since most are cable cos and even some of the fiber guys like Verizon (for FIOS), they are caring up supporting a 25-50Mbps generally. The outliers have things like 75-105Mbps internet connections...and even then, for the WHOLE coax network, it can probably support that plus a few VOD/whole house DVR video streams and work fine.

In a few years they might see a need, if/when 4k over the wire becomes a thing and/or internet speeds increase even more. Until then, for what the ISP cares about delivering to you, it is overkill and 1.1 does just dandy.

I was really hoping that MoCA 2.0 became a reality because I have a FiOS 150/35 connection. Verizon is supposed to be upgrading everyone to symmetrical, so soon it should be 150/150. I currently have 4 Verizon MoCA routers. 1 Rev. E, 2 Rev. F, and 1 Rev. I. I use them to extend the wired network to other rooms. My service goes up to around 93/37 in the rooms not connected directly to the ONT. The room with the router connected directly to the ONT goes up to around 155/37. I have had this service and setup since 12/2011 and had been reading about MoCA 2.0 being available at a later date. I have been considering running Ethernet cable throughout the house, but it would be kind of a pain.

If I ran Ethernet wiring, I would have to do much of it outdoors. Some would have to be clamped down on brick and some of it would also have to be done under siding. The house is 2 stories and a finished basement. How would you do it if you wanted to see as little wires as possible? Thanks for any help.

 

[azazel1024]

I was really hoping that MoCA 2.0 became a reality because I have a FiOS 150/35 connection. Verizon is supposed to be upgrading everyone to symmetrical, so soon it should be 150/150. I currently have 4 Verizon MoCA routers. 1 Rev. E, 2 Rev. F, and 1 Rev. I. I use them to extend the wired network to other rooms. My service goes up to around 93/37 in the rooms not connected directly to the ONT. The room with the router connected directly to the ONT goes up to around 155/37. I have had this service and setup since 12/2011 and had been reading about MoCA 2.0 being available at a later date. I have been considering running Ethernet cable throughout the house, but it would be kind of a pain.

If I ran Ethernet wiring, I would have to do much of it outdoors. Some would have to be clamped down on brick and some of it would also have to be done under siding. The house is 2 stories and a finished basement. How would you do it if you wanted to see as little wires as possible? Thanks for any help.

I'd run it through the walls an accept that I'd probably have to patch some holes in the drywall to run my wires. That is obviously a pain, but if you want to do it right, that just might be what you have to do.

If you don't have the expertise to take on the project, you could probably hire an electrician who would do it in the range of $100-150 or so per LAN drop, which doesn't necessarily make it cheap, but that should cover running the wires and all of the touch-up/drywall repair and they'll also be able to minimize any holes they do need to put in the walls.

With my house I am lucky enough to have about 1/3rd of my basement unfinished and it wraps around like an L covering two sides of the basement almost completely. So I can access most rooms from this of the crawl space under my living room (rancher). The couple I can't I ran ethernet too while I was refinishing my basement (the 2/3rds that were finished, was a crap job, no insulation, wiring not done to code, etc house is from 1961). I "accidently" forgot to do a LAN drop in my daughters room and there is no realistic way to reach it without punching holes (a LOT of them). So for that room, I did actually run a cable outside of the house.

There was coax running from the storage room, outside of the house and then in to her room. So I just yanked it and ran some direct bury rated Cat6 from my basement switch to her room along the same path. It's about 6ft that has to run outside of the house, but unavoidable.

I need to replace the siding on the rear of the house at some point and when I do that, I'll either move the cable to be under the siding, or probably I'll pull the exterior sheating in that area, run it through the wall, fix the insulation and patch the section I had to remove the interior sheathing for.

 

[imagoon]

When finishing a basement with drywall ceilings, it is always a good idea now to a) use conduit for data before you finish the ceiling or b) install drywall doors and have run paths for it.

Otherwise you have to cut in to the drywall and install then patch.

 

[azazel1024]

When finishing a basement with drywall ceilings, it is always a good idea now to a) use conduit for data before you finish the ceiling or b) install drywall doors and have run paths for it.

Otherwise you have to cut in to the drywall and install then patch.

My big issue with my daughters room is the way everything is setup, there just isn't access without cutting holes in the ceiling or walls. With the other rooms, even if they are not above unfinished space, you have access from the unfinished space all the way down the joist bays. However, the joist bays either have the steps to the basement cutting through them, or things like the exhaust fan for the basement bathroom sitting in them. Otherwise I could run a wire fish down from the room and through the joist bay to the unfinished space.

Live and learn. I really should have just run the wire when I had all of the walls off in the basement, but it really just didn't occur to me then.

 

[evident]

Sad cause moca actually works. I find powerline to be very hit or miss a lot of the time..

This. I have a verizon actiontec router that I use MoCA to my HTPC setup. wireless N is still too spotty to stream 1080P from my server.

 

[el-Capitan]

This. I have a verizon actiontec router that I use MoCA to my HTPC setup. wireless N is still too spotty to stream 1080P from my server.

Same here. I played around with n, ac, 5Ghz, different adapters and routers.

Plugged in one of these MOCA babies ($45 ebay) and I have been flying since. Constant 2-3ms ping, no noticable bandwidth limitation. Love it!

Shame they aren't taking it further.

 

[azazel1024]

Same here. I played around with n, ac, 5Ghz, different adapters and routers.

Plugged in one of these MOCA babies ($45 ebay) and I have been flying since. Constant 2-3ms ping, no noticable bandwidth limitation. Love it!

Shame they aren't taking it further.

The popularity just isn't there.

Lots of homes have coax in them, but by far not all. Maybe not even the majority of homes in the US have coax in them.

EVERY home (okay, maybe some limited numbers of exception with some historic properties) have electrical wiring in them, so powerline adapters are an option in basically all homes, even if they aren't, generally, as fast as even MoCA 1.1.

Wireless might not work great in some properties, but again, within reason, you can at least attempt to deploy it in any property and it'll probably work "good nuff" for most users.

If you want fast connections, MoCA can't hold a torch to 1000base-TX or similar.

Even back on the wireless, if you have the right construction property, depending on link distances, what you do to set it up, etc, wireless can be significantly faster than MoCA. If I scoot my AP a little so my 4ft thick masonry chimney isn't in the way, I can get a 2.GHz 40MHz bridged connection to my AC1750 router from my N600 AP that can hit 16MB/sec, through 60ft, a floor and two walls, which is nearly as fast as MoCA 1.1 can hit, supposing you have a MoCA bridge with gigabit ports, which is rare. I am sure if I put directional antennas on the two routers to increase the link strength I could probably get >20MB/sec and if I switched to an AC1750 router and 5GHz, even with the greater attenuation, but with directionals (and not like 24dBi yagis, I mean like 7-10dBi panel antennas) I could probably get >40MB/sec.

I would bet 99% of the market for MoCA right now is ISP installs for Verizon FIOS and other fiber ISPs. They just aren't asking for anything faster than MoCA 1.1 right now. Which is in large part why both MoCA 2.0 disappeared as it started and also why Actiontec is pretty much the only MoCA bridge/router manufacturer right now. The other guys got in to it, but they only had consumer targeted MoCA bridges and the consumer market was/is tiny. So they gave up quickly.

MoCA 2.0 will come around when Verizon and the other fiber ISPs decide they need the extra speed (which might be sooner than you think as standard speeds inch up on internet plans).

 

[seasons]

...
For telecos right now, the thing is...why would they care? for whole house streaming, VOD, basic internet service, etc, 170Mbps is MASSIVE overkill. In most cases they are caring about 4-8Mbps per set top box for VOD or remote streaming from a central DVR. For internet, since most are cable cos and even some of the fiber guys like Verizon (for FIOS), they are caring up supporting a 25-50Mbps generally. The outliers have things like 75-105Mbps internet connections...and even then, for the WHOLE coax network, it can probably support that plus a few VOD/whole house DVR video streams and work fine.

In a few years they might see a need, if/when 4k over the wire becomes a thing and/or internet speeds increase even more. Until then, for what the ISP cares about delivering to you, it is overkill and 1.1 does just dandy.

Unfortunately, many consumers still have slow internet speeds at home, but not everyone (I routinely get 300Mbps on the download and my upload speed has varies more.) Here is a speed test I did at 5:18 pm on 12/2/14
http://screencast.com/t/olixXypw32Z
Earlier the same day (at 3:30pm) my Upload was 351Mbps and my Download at 355Mbps.)

That is home internet fiber service and it's not from one of the big national providers like Verizon; it's from a small, local company. So, there is hope that other people in the country will get faster speeds.

"Fast" internet (100Mbps is not really fast anymore.)
I would like to set up a MoCA network but can't find a MoCA 2.0 adapter or bridge being sold to consumers. Right now all I can find are ones being sold to ISPs and Cable Companies.

It's frustrating because my internet modem/router has Gigabit ethernet ports, I have coax throughout the house, 300+Mbps internet and my Tivo (on the opposite end of the house from the internet drop) has a Gigabit ethernet port.) I would really like to be able to transfer my tivo shows to my computer at something faster than a snail's pace.

In addition, multiple mobile devices and future Tivo Minis will also all cut into the bandwith of the home network.

I have a definite "need" for a MoCA 2.0 adpater/bridge and so do some other people. As more and more people learn about MoCA for home networking, more and more consumers will demand the devices to support it and hopefully these devices will then be sold directly to consumers. I wish that day were already here because now I'll have to waste money on a MoCA 1.1 adapter and not be able to take advantage of the fast internet speed in my home network.

If anyone knows where I could buy a MoCA 2.0 adapter or bridge, please let me know.

p.s. I just read an article that the 4K tv will be really big this holiday shopping season. It costs about $2,500, but as all electronics, it's price will come down over time.

 

[seasons]

There is hope on the horizon, but I don't think they're being sold to consumers yet.

 

[Eug]

If I ran Ethernet wiring, I would have to do much of it outdoors. Some would have to be clamped down on brick and some of it would also have to be done under siding. The house is 2 stories and a finished basement. How would you do it if you wanted to see as little wires as possible? Thanks for any help.

What I would recommend if you don't absolutely need a wired connection everywhere is to install just a few Ethernet runs in strategic places, and then run wireless for the rest. And yeah, running under siding or along corners and seams is fine. Just make sure you buy outdoor rated Ethernet cable. That stands up to UV much better, and is waterproof.

I thought about MoCA, but it was simply too expensive to buy all the adapters. At that time it would have been a couple of hundred dollars for each individual run. At those prices, you may as well pay someone to install GigE (although I ended up doing it myself, since my house construction is mostly wood so it was easy to drill through walls).

I did that initially, although when I reno'd my basement, that gave me the opportunity to install Gigabit Ethernet all over the place, so I have wired Ethernet in 95% of the house now.

 

[azazel1024]

You can also run it behind baseboards and other such places inside if you are somewhat creative.

Lastly, depending on the distance, you can do wifi. Get a couple of 802.11ac 3:3 bridges/routers in bridge mode and upgrade the antennas and it'll likely be much faster, even across an entire house, than MoCA 1.1.

I can understand your frustration though. However, if you are just looking at fast transfers, get gigabit coax adapters. There ARE fast coax bridges out there, they just don't work on MoCA and if you need MoCA working on your network, you'll need to disconnect the coax you are using for the high speed adapters from the rest of the coax, which might not be that difficult as most Coax connections/splitters are in places where you can reach them.

They aren't that expensive either...http://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Mid-B.../dp/B00684E0UI

Example of a "mid band" coax adapter. 256Mbps at 1600 meters (granted, PHY, not necessarily realizable rate)...at a guess you could get at least 200Mbps with an in-home use scenario.

 

[kevnich2]

Here's a complete moca package that will extend your wireless and give you a few port gigabit ports:

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Dual...s=moca+network

 

[kevnich2]

MOCA NIC's aren't available but the products to extend your network using moca are widely available, though only through actiontec. Verizon uses moca for all it's fios equipment as well as Bright House for it's new "echo" service. Moca will be on the up and up with these two big players utilizing it.

 

[smitbret]

MOCA NIC's aren't available but the products to extend your network using moca are widely available, though only through actiontec. Verizon uses moca for all it's fios equipment as well as Bright House for it's new "echo" service. Moca will be on the up and up with these two big players utilizing it.

DirecTV uses MoCa for it's Genie + Clients setups as well as for transporting Whole-Home DVR sharing between devices. You can use their Broadband DECA adapters as MoCa adapters.

 

[azazel1024]

A number of players have been using it for years.

The issue is, it is all ISPs who are utilizing it and none of them need or are concerned about high speeds. Most of the ISPs who utilize it only are or need to be concerned about supplying video streaming or at most maybe 100Mbps or so internet connections via MoCA. So, for now, there is no drive from them for MoCA 2.0. MoCA 1.1 does what they need it to. Possibly in the next couple of years you'll see that start to change, but right now if you want faster than Verizon's 150Mbps service, they tell you you have to run ethernet to get the higher speed service (though, I suspect with MoCA 1.1 and its theoretical 170Mbps max speeds, you'd be hard pressed to actually see a full 150Mbps if you had the 150Mbps FIOS service).

The OP has MoCA, he wants something faster than MoCA 1.1. In which case, the options are pretty much proprietary coax bridging, or something not using coax.

 

[imagoon]

DirecTV uses MoCa for it's Genie + Clients setups as well as for transporting Whole-Home DVR sharing between devices. You can use their Broadband DECA adapters as MoCa adapters.

DECA = SWM channelized tech. Same idea but isn't MoCa.

 

[Eug]

There ARE fast coax bridges out there, they just don't work on MoCA and if you need MoCA working on your network, you'll need to disconnect the coax you are using for the high speed adapters from the rest of the coax, which might not be that difficult as most Coax connections/splitters are in places where you can reach them.

They aren't that expensive either...http://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Mid-B.../dp/B00684E0UI

Example of a "mid band" coax adapter. 256Mbps at 1600 meters (granted, PHY, not necessarily realizable rate)...at a guess you could get at least 200Mbps with an in-home use scenario.

Just a note that HomePNA is not compatible with cable TV either.

I was able to get 65 Mbps onHomePNA over coax, but I don't know the version. I think it's 3.0. I was using Cellpipe 7130 gateways, which have HPNA built-in.

EDIT:

Some googling tells me it's probably HomePNA 3.1, not 3.0. Anyhoo, even with a 6-foot coaxial cable, I maxed out at only 68 Mbps. I wonder how fast the TrendNET bridges get, but I wouldn't be too optimistic.

EDIT again:

It seems people can get 100 Mbps. Interestingly, the TrendNET only has Fast Ethernet ports (100 Mbps) in the first place, so Gigabit-class speeds will be impossible.

 

[azazel1024]

Just a note that HomePNA is not compatible with cable TV either.

I was able to get 65 Mbps onHomePNA over coax, but I don't know the version. I think it's 3.0. I was using Cellpipe 7130 gateways, which have HPNA built-in.

EDIT:

Some googling tells me it's probably HomePNA 3.1, not 3.0. Anyhoo, even with a 6-foot coaxial cable, I maxed out at only 68 Mbps. I wonder how fast the TrendNET bridges get, but I wouldn't be too optimistic.

EDIT again:

It seems people can get 100 Mbps. Interestingly, the TrendNET only has Fast Ethernet ports (100 Mbps) in the first place, so Gigabit-class speeds will be impossible.

Hmmm, missed the fast ethernet portness of them. They do seem like a nice idea if you need to have a very long run of coax and/or a very long connection PERIOD and for some reason laying fiber isn't an option. I do know people who have gone with full gigabit class coax bridges who have gotten in to the >>>500Mbps range in actual use on home coax wiring. Downside there is most of those bridges are also >>>$100 a piece. So it might cost you $300-400 to setup a coax bridge capable of >500Mbps.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You folks do know that Verizon just introduced their "Quantum Internet Gateway" device (not made by ActionTec, some other OEM), that you can buy if you're a FIOS subscriber for $150, and has 802.11ac three-stream, plus supposedly Moca 2.0.