Mod Sponsored Community Poll - Your Input is Requested

[Idontcare]

Inspired by the community feedback voiced in the Open Mic thread, this moderator sponsored community poll is intended to help us gauge the community sentiments more accurately and fairly.

Option #1 is intended to mean that you would like to see the existing AnandTech Forum Guidelines enforced in P&N to the "t", zero personal attacks, etc. (the most stringent/restrictive option)

Option #2 is intended to mean that you would like to see the existing level of moderation in P&N to continue unabated, regardless the forum guidelines. (the laissez-faire option)

Option #3 is intended to mean that you don't necessarily want to see P&N become as pure as the driven snow (option #1) but you do feel some things should become more actionable by the moderators - be it the personal attacks, bigotry, trolling, thread titles and/or thread OP contents, etc. (the "please do something about xyz, but not too much so we avoid over-moderation" option)

Please understand that this poll is not intended to be a binding "will of the people shall be done" type vote (although we do have those on occasion) but rather at this time we are still simply seeking to better understand where the community lands on the topic of actionable versus not actionable posting behaviors.

If Option #3 turns out to garner the majority votes in this poll then a subsequent follow-up poll will be sponsored which will contain a break-out of the most commonly voiced topics of concern within the community.

At this time those topics of concern are the following (ignore the weightings):

If you voted option #3 in this poll please post in the poll and voice your specific areas of concern, you can voice more than one area of concern.

Likewise if you voted option #1 or #2 then you may also feel free to post in this thread to voice your motivation for voting as such.

The poll is a public poll to ensure honesty and consistency between the votes and the stated positions within the thread.

 

[Whiskey16]

First, here's my admiration to Idontcare and Perknose for their their eloquence and concern.

Now the priorities for why I voted for option #3

1. Bigotry -- As succinctly defined by Idontcare in the previous thread, such an extreme is clear to all. It excessively aggravates the forum and if left unchecked, a horrible reflection of what is tolerated by the business and entity that is AnandTech. A society makes itself.
2. More consistent enforcement of rules -- I recall admirably seeing threads closed that blamed certain ethnicities/race for crime and other common themes against women, gays, etc., but even today, we still witness posters feeling free to directly relate Islam and thereby all Muslims as terrorists. Tolerated hate speech against threatening hordes of Muslims/Palestinians/Arabs is far too common a theme on this forum.
3. Excessive personal attacks -- Again as well clarified by Idontcare, ought to be clear as an effort to inflame and disrupt the forum.
4. Misquoting/Putting words in others' mouths -- Again, obvious and more often than not, needlessly inflammatory. Though, if one wishes to rewrite another another's presentation for an argumentative point, then it ought to be required that they also include a quote of the original text. Context is key to maintaining honesty.
5. Trolling -- Not always as clear and certainly subjective, but those who regularly post excessively in a certain style ought to be of prime familiarity.
6. Link-and-run/fill-paste -- Easy to recognise and enforce. If one can't comment or cut-out irrelevant material of a large segment from an external source, then they don't deserve starting yet another thread.

....One more concern that I am not sure is already covered by forum rules -- plagiarisation. This came up today. It's quite uncommon for a forum to permit member posts, unquoted and presented as their own, with full copies of text from an external site. It's often part of an anti-spam rule and upon recognition by fellow members, an easily enforceable rule.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Nah, leave it as is. It's a social forum; more rules would suck.

 

[JEDIYoda]

More consistent enforcement of rules -- I recall admirably seeing threads closed that blamed certain ethnicities/race for crime and other common themes against women, gays, etc., but even today, we still witness posters feeling free to directly relate Islam and thereby all Muslims as terrorists. Tolerated hate speech against threatening hordes of Muslims/Palestinians/Arabs is far too common a theme on this forum.

So let us say you are correct.......
We agree that not all Muslims are terrorist.
We agree that some Muslims are terrorists -- again people skew the definition of terrorist to meet their needs.
We also agree possibly that there are those who by not speaking up against some of their Muslim brothers who are terrorist are in actuality condoning that very terrorism...
We probably also agree that there is a very small percentage that do in fact approve of said terrorists.
We should also agree that Europe has a huge problem with everyday Muslims who do not wish to obey the laws of the country they immigrated. In fact they want to be law abiding citizens...only they want to abide by Muslim laws.

You made an accusation that I called for violence against Muslims....you should retract that claim that my signature called for violence against Muslims.

I have never called for violence against Muslims or any other group.

You also made a false accusation about me --
every one of your posts propagates a call to violence with your choice of a signature:
Atreus21 -- Once Israel accepts the violence, peace can finally reign.

Yet to put my signature in proper context this what it should say --
Once Israel accepts the violence against them , peace can finally reign.

Then you wax eloquent in saying -- I am gratified to see a new page for tolerance and moderation against extremism will be enacted here at AnandTech.


Remember that will be a two way street......

I stand by this statement --Originally Posted by JEDIYoda
Your kidding right?
On the muslim comment--- This forum is spot on in how it percieves Muslims as a whole and as it percieves the Muslim Extremists!

Nowhere in that post did I call for violence against a race of people.
Just because I have strong feelings against Muslims does not discount the fact that there are links of problems in Europe...etc...
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=muslim problems in europe

Yet at the same time there are good Muslims people who just want to live their lives and be left alone.

Shalom!!

 

[Infohawk]

I'm curious where all this talk of reform is coming from. Are page hits down?

Please understand that this poll is not intended to be a binding "will of the people shall be done" type vote

Don't worry I don't. If posters need a reminder they can look at the threads in my sig to see examples of what people really think is wrong with these forums.

1. Bigotry -- As succinctly defined by Idontcare in the previous thread, such an extreme is clear to all. It excessively aggravates the forum and if left unchecked, a horrible reflection of what is tolerated by the business and entity that is AnandTech. A society makes itself.

1. 
   
   Again, good luck enforcing your view of what bigotry (based on the example you linked to). Where do you stop? If you can't criticize or generalize about Muslims, can you criticize or generalize about Christians, Americans (don't you do this?), Republicans, Democrats?

 

[monovillage]

Thank you for taking the time to talk to the posters here and gather various points of view, your work is appreciated.

I'd like to add a +1 to Whiskey16's addition of plagiarism, i've occasionally seen unattributed links and graphs and charts from posters, some posters regularly do it. It's usually just sloppy (imo), but sometimes I think it's a deliberate way for the poster to hide the source of the information.

 

[HAL9000]

My vote is enforce the crap out of the rules, some of the stuff that people get away with in P&N is intolerable, it is far too hostile, constant personal attacks, racism, xenophobia, trolling and it puts some members off posting here, understandably. If people can't discuss issues civilly they should be reprimanded for it.

 

[Doppel]

Option 3. Occasional calling of idiot or whatever doesn't bother me but constant stupid behavior needs to stop.

 

[Sinsear]

Leave as is. Except for truthers. Let's make a few threads and ridicule the crap outta them for being stupid.

 

[dmcowen674]

The biggest offenders of misquotes and making up personal lies and attacks are the ones crying foul in here.

It's like Sylvester saying he hasn't done anything while he has Tweety's feather hanging out of his mouth.

Funny how the Mods never ever see that feather.

Are you guys (Mods) actually saying you will see the feather and possibly do something about it???

 

[maluckey]

I know! Let's all act like grown-ups!? Grown-ups disagree and explore their thoughts with others. They also disagree, and sometimes these disagreements are not resolvable. That's life.

We don't live in a world full of Unicorns and rainbows. Feelings get hurt and that's just mirroring the way life is. Mods should only step in if the conversation crosses the line and would shock the conscience of this forum.

Besides, there are more than a few people who apparently have no social life outside of this forum and still live with mum. They need the interaction.

 

[HAL9000]

Also, as were discussing this forums moderation, my biggest issue with this forum are two posters that like to insult the UK for seemingly no reason, I'm sure people know who I'm referring to, and if they don't then it's obviously not a problem. If you know what I mean then it's a problem. These two posters everyone tries to ignore, but sometimes it can't be done they derail, troll and attack people in almost every thread they enter, they are ignorant biggots that need to be dealt with in my humble opinion.

 

[randomrogue]

Also, as were discussing this forums moderation, my biggest issue with this forum are two posters that like to insult the UK for seemingly no reason, I'm sure people know who I'm referring to, and if they don't then it's obviously not a problem. If you know what I mean then it's a problem. These two posters everyone tries to ignore, but sometimes it can't be done they derail, troll and attack people in almost every thread they enter, they are ignorant biggots that need to be dealt with in my humble opinion.

Although I know what you're talking about I think you need to look at it from a wider angle. People ride the American train around here. Israel? Criticize. Palestine? Criticize. Canada? Criticize. Iran? Criticize. Basically any country that is brought up is criticized. Lets also not forget that the country criticized the most is the US since everyone here likes to complain about things at home all day on here.

 

[HAL9000]

Although I know what you're talking about I think you need to look at it from a wider angle. People ride the American train around here. Israel? Criticize. Palestine? Criticize. Canada? Criticize. Iran? Criticize. Basically any country that is brought up is criticized. Lets also not forget that the country criticized the most is the US since everyone here likes to complain about things at home all day on here.

Criticise away, there is a different between criticising and calling an entire nation "barbaric racist subservient delusional peasants with an inbred whore for a monarch" If someone posts "I seriously think that x countries foreign policy needs re-evaluating as it is causing extreme tension in the region" that's different.

 

[dmcowen674]

Also, as were discussing this forums moderation, my biggest issue with this forum are two posters that like to insult the UK for seemingly no reason

Is the UK off limits for some reason????

 

[HAL9000]

Is the UK off limits for some reason????

No, but personal attacks, trolling and xenophobia / bigotry should be.

 

[manimal]

The problem is what passes ones persons litmus test fails outright for another. There should be zero personal attacks. I have had trouble logging in for a week so I never was able to respond to the original thread.

I for one stopped posting in P&N last year because of all the personal attacks.


I am a little older and do not suffer fools gladly. I do give them the respect I want in return however.

If you parse some posters responses to real threads you see some inherent patterns. One could write a book on ATPNs use of the word MORAN......

mispele for effect3

So option 1 for the adults please.

 

[cybrsage]

Also, as were discussing this forums moderation, my biggest issue with this forum are two posters that like to insult the UK for seemingly no reason, I'm sure people know who I'm referring to, and if they don't then it's obviously not a problem. If you know what I mean then it's a problem. These two posters everyone tries to ignore, but sometimes it can't be done they derail, troll and attack people in almost every thread they enter, they are ignorant biggots that need to be dealt with in my humble opinion.

I know. France, sure, but the UK? (yes, that was a joke) You guys are like our (from the US point of view) older brother. Yeah, we fought when we were younger, but now we have each other's backs. We will squabble from time to time, but that is fine too.

Anyway, sorry for the OT post.

 

[cybrsage]

I voted for number 1. If the rules are not enforced consistently, you will have natural human bias getting in the way and causing problems. For example, lets say Mod A is a strong Obama supporter, he will have a natural bias to see people who call Obama detractors stupid as being fine..since he feels that way as well.

There is a difference between saying "Wow, that was a stupid thing to post" and "You are stupid for posting that". The former attacks the post, the latter attacks the poster. The former is fine, the latter is not fine.

I do it, and routinely have it done to me. If the rules are going to be enforced evenly against all, I will certainly not do it.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The biggest offenders of misquotes and making up personal lies and attacks are the ones crying foul in here.

It's like Sylvester saying he hasn't done anything while he has Tweety's feather hanging out of his mouth.

Funny how the Mods never ever see that feather.

Are you guys (Mods) actually saying you will see the feather and possibly do something about it???

I can't wait to see how much you piss and moan when you have to change the personal attack in your sig......:biggrin:

Beware of Ignore List Users that make up lies:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Is the UK off limits for some reason????

No, but personal attacks, trolling and xenophobia / bigotry should be.

What personal attacks?

There have been a ton of people going out of their way to proclaim there isn't any.

 

[HAL9000]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Is the UK off limits for some reason????



What personal attacks?

There have been a ton of people going out of their way to proclaim there isn't any.

I'm not getting into it anymore or this thread will just get derailed, if you haven't seen it lucky you.

 

[dank69]

Option 3.

Unfortunately, the only thing I would like to see moderated more is the one thing that is the most difficult to moderate: intellectual dishonesty.

I don't care about profanity, personal attacks or the like. We aren't in grade school. We don't need to be coddled. Everyone here is capable of defending themselves from unwarranted attacks without running to tattle to teacher.

I wish intellectual dishonesty wasn't so prevalent, as I like to avoid the need for moderation as much as possible. But it is so prevalent you would be hard pressed to find a single thread that does not have any present. The problem with dishonesty is that it blocks the ability to have meaniful conversations and debates. It's easy to 'win' an argument if you just lie and present those lies as facts, and then ignore others' arguments showing that your evidence is a lie.

After all is said and done, though, if it boiled down to a choice between keeping it as is or moderationg everything to the letter of the law, I'd choose the former. I'd deal with the annoyance of liars rather than see this forum turn into a watered down version of its former self.

 

[Doppel]

I can't wait to see how much you piss and moan when you have to change the personal attack in your sig......:biggrin:

Yes, dmcowen will be changing this signature.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The problem is what passes ones persons litmus test fails outright for another. There should be zero personal attacks.

Can we say non -sequitir?? What you just posted does not make any sense! Opps...my bad I would bet by your standards that was a personal attack!!

Please define in your opinion what a personal attack is construed of.....