Monitor refresh rate matters?

[Borealis7]

what Viewsonic are you referring to? there is a new model, 24" V3D241wm-LED just announced a week ago which i'm dying to see in a store somewhere. on paper it looks amazing.

 

[Ben90]

LED backlighting is not always better than traditional CCFL backlighting. So often do we see "OMGFZ ists LEDS backlights! So muchsa COLOR ACCURACYS" on the forum. Chances are its going to use the standard cheap "white" LEDs to keep costs down.

 

[Petey!]

Here's a really good basic and easy to understand write up of Vsync.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928593&highlight=vsync+hate

 

[tyl998]

I guess I should stay away from 120 hz then. If I've never had it then I can't miss it. 60 fps has been acceptable to me so far, and I am just *loving* my 460 SLI rig right now. Mass Effect 2 at max settings plays ridiculously smoothly(compared to my old rig of ancientness), and I'm downloading Batman Asylum right now on Steam. Later I'll also buy F1 2010. Gonna make the most use out of my graphics capabilities.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Are there even any monitors out there that are 120hz? I haven't seen it....like I said in my earlier post, sounds like a TV marketing scheme.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I compare LDC'sand I.Q. to the loudness wars on music.
People have gotten used to bad I.Q. on monitors, so they don't notice it anymore and when new LCD's come out, that still are subpar to CRT's...the hail for their improved I.Q.

It's sad really.

 

[Borealis7]

Are there even any monitors out there that are 120hz? I haven't seen it....like I said in my earlier post, sounds like a TV marketing scheme.

yes, of course there are true 120Hz LCDs. they are starting to pop up around the from various companies, so far upto 22", but soon the 24" 1080p ones will join them.

 

[Dribble]

60hz blows and is hurtful to the eyes. You turn vsync on and unless its 2ms its laggy mouse. This is why pro gamers only use CRT at lan festivals..

In the finals they don't get to use there own machines just mouse + keyboard. Last time I was at a competitive lan it was some sort of 60hz LCD, approx 20 inch, so I suspect most pro gamers will use whatever is closest to what they get in the finals.

That said I moved from a 60hz to a 23 inch 120hz and it made a huge difference in fast fps - it's not just the 120hz it's that (if you buy carefully) they also have 0 input lag - the combo makes it much easier to aim.

 

[tyl998]

But what at cost? At what cost?

Serious dollars I presume?

 

[mv2devnull]

Are there even any monitors out there that are 120hz? I haven't seen it....like I said in my earlier post, sounds like a TV marketing scheme.

Samsung 2233RZ, LG W2363D, Acer GD245HQ, ...

I've seen these three, but there was a complication: their purpose was quad-buffered OpenGL stereo with Nvidia 3D Vision active shutter glasses, and the Nvidia's driver does not support one of these yet. At least not officially. We are still investigating whether we can avoid a twitch every couple seconds that occurs in a window that has the stereo context active with the FullHD models. Could be a driver setting.

The Samsung is fine, but only 1680x1050. LG has better light (in our opinion) than Samsung. Acer leaks backlight somewhat. Could be this particular unit.

You can probably tell that we don't play.()

 

[xCxStylex]

OP - If 60 fps is acceptable to you, then it is. To each man there own, and I laugh when people spit off random garbage about how humans can see xxx. Each individual person has different perceptive abilities.

If you can see a difference between 70 and 90 fps, which I was able to on an old school CRT, AND the 60fps is pissing you off in your current games, then get a 120hz. Otherwise, if you're fine with your 60hz, then you're fine with it. It may seem a bit smoother, but it may not. You'd just have to try for yourself.

I guess I should stay away from 120 hz then. If I've never had it then I can't miss it. 60 fps has been acceptable to me so far, and I am just *loving* my 460 SLI rig right now. Mass Effect 2 at max settings plays ridiculously smoothly(compared to my old rig of ancientness), and I'm downloading Batman Asylum right now on Steam. Later I'll also buy F1 2010. Gonna make the most use out of my graphics capabilities.

 

[Karl Agathon]

But what at cost? At what cost?

Serious dollars I presume?

Yeah, the few that I have seen will set someone back a chunk a of change. im currently looking at the 23' Alienwarwe OptiX AW2310 myself. Still mulling over weather it will be worth it for me.

 

[Throckmorton]

I compare LDC'sand I.Q. to the loudness wars on music.
People have gotten used to bad I.Q. on monitors, so they don't notice it anymore and when new LCD's come out, that still are subpar to CRT's...the hail for their improved I.Q.

It's sad really.

The problem is TN screens

 

[Lonbjerg]

The problem is TN screens

Show me any flatscreen that has better I.Q than a CRT?

 

[tyl998]

Yeah, the few that I have seen will set someone back a chunk a of change. im currently looking at the 23' Alienwarwe OptiX AW2310 myself. Still mulling over weather it will be worth it for me.

How much are we talking about here? I spent like $160 for my monitor.

 

[tweakboy]

Deepinya with vsync off there is tearing and the video card can ouput high FPS like 200FPS and 100FPS whatever.. but there is tearing.. its not a artifact,, its just tearing thats why you turn vsync on to stop the tearing and make it smooth like butter. Triple buffering helps in performance when vsync is on, with it off its doing nothing. You just havent payed close attention instead enjoyed the game your playing instead of worrying about fps and what not.. thx gg and gb

 

[Karl Agathon]

How much are we talking about here? I spent like $160 for my monitor.

We're talking in the $450 range. A local electronics store had one out and running with some games and it looked nothing less then fantastic. Not sure if I can rationalize spending that much. Definitely considering it though.

 

[tyl998]

For an extra 300 dollars, I could get myself a nice big SSD drive, or get a third GPU for tri-SLI...

But yeah, I guess it's all in what you value.

 

[taltamir]

Show me any flatscreen that has better I.Q than a CRT?

any LCD...

CRTs are pure and utter crap. they waver, they flicker, they are always crooked... ugh, disgusting...

 

[Lonbjerg]

Deepinya with vsync off there is tearing and the video card can ouput high FPS like 200FPS and 100FPS whatever.. but there is tearing.. its not a artifact,, its just tearing thats why you turn vsync on to stop the tearing and make it smooth like butter. Triple buffering helps in performance when vsync is on, with it off its doing nothing. You just havent payed close attention instead enjoyed the game your playing instead of worrying about fps and what not.. thx gg and gb

you might want to do some googling...only thing that has true VSYNC with tripple buffering is OpenGL..on NVIDIA hardware.
Everything else is just pageflipping.

 

[Lonbjerg]

any LCD...

CRTs are pure and utter crap. they waver, they flicker, they are always crooked... ugh, disgusting...

So you couldn't find me a LCD with true black, full dynamcis colorrange and no backligthing..so you try and make it sound like all CRT's run at 60HZ...nice fallacy.

Right now I am running dual 1600x1200 Trinitron @ 85Hz...no flicker at all....and the will put any LCD to shame in a side by side comparision.

 

[Karl Agathon]

For an extra 300 dollars, I could get myself a nice big SSD drive, or get a third GPU for tri-SLI...

But yeah, I guess it's all in what you value.

True that! I still just might end up going with the 60hz 24" ASUS flatty I have been eyeing @ newegg for a shade over $200. I just still cant get out of my mind how smooth and fluid the games looked on the alienware 120hz I was looking at. Regardless, its like you said, its all in what one values.

 

[Imperceptible]

I'm still waiting on a decent LCD to replace my 21" Sony Trinitron. Something along the lines of, 23-24" <2ms 120Hz LED 16:10 LCD with minimal input lag. But even then it could have all those specs but still have bad I.Q. Samsung is due to release an updated 120Hz monitor soon, so maybe they'll get closer to my target. Another possible contender, depending on how well it performs is the new BenQ XL2410T.

 

[zerocool84]

We're talking in the $450 range. A local electronics store had one out and running with some games and it looked nothing less then fantastic. Not sure if I can rationalize spending that much. Definitely considering it though.

I got my Acer for $350 which is the normal price for it but actually just sent it back cus it bled so much damn blacklight from the bottom of the screen and the viewing angles were much worse. My TN LG panel looks much better so I decided that I'll get a 120Hz later on when they're cheaper. I do kind of miss having the 120Hz even just for normal Windows computing. It really did make a huge difference but like I said before, the money is better spent on other things if you already have a decent monitor already.

 

[taltamir]

so you try and make it sound like all CRT's run at 60HZ...nice fallacy.

please, they do it at any refresh rate, flickering is less severe but still there, wavering often gets worse as you increase refresh rate, and crookedness has nothing to do with refresh rate.

So you couldn't find me a LCD with true black, full dynamcis colorrange and no backligthing.

RGB LED LCD... has true black due to locally turning off the LED backlight, has better color range then CRT... no backlighting is a weird request, thats like asking for a CRT with no magnets, what do you care HOW it works? your requests should be about performance, tell me of a PROBLEM caused by backlight...
I can think of one, the polarization + back-light causes limited view angles, and there are LCDs that handle that better. but only OLEDs eliminate it completely. so admittedly that is a drawback of LCD, I never said they were perfect, I only said that CRT's are worse.

I am surprised you haven't yet mentioned any legitimate issue with LCD technology, like ghosting and bleeding. or the screen-door effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen-door_effect
I can see the screendoor effect on every LCD I used, but then again, I also see the refresh lines on a CRT... LCD is just less shitty, despite its flaws. OLED can't come fast enough though, since it has no flaws that I know of.