Moral Dilemma - UPDATED! I tried to be nice.....the fight begins anew.

[GroundedSailor]

shinerburke is right to take the action he intends to.

According to the laws of contract a contract does NOT have to be fair. It has to be agreed to by both parties. A sale is a contract and is binding. Hence under law, the store should honor the price he paid for it - whether or not they make a profit on the transaction has nothing to do with it.

Three chances and 24 hours is a very reasonable amount of time for the store to examine and change their offer. They did not. They accepted his money for the goods in accordance with their offer. That makes it a legally binding agreement (contract).

The store owner reneged on his part of the second contract they made after renegotiating the price. Yes a verbal contract is still a contract and covered by law.

shinerburke go for it. See if you can get your story in the local press. Bad publicity will shake up the store like nothing else.

BTW how is the store making a loss? They were getting what they paid for the oven + 10% which should cover their shipping costs. What they didn't make is the large markup for profit.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Ornery
The reason I wanted to know "their price" is because I have no idea how much appliances are marked up. I know outfits like Maytag has fixed prices, so their resellers aren't competing on price, so who knows what the dealer's cost is? I doubt the mark-up is that much. Surely not 40%!

Ornery and Shiner the same person?

 

[sandorski]

Anyway

Shiner: Your moral dilemna started when you *knew* the price was wrong, you should have acted then! I can't believe how you started struggling with being noble and now have completely turned around to thinking that being ignoble is noble, I'm speechless! :|

 

[isekii]

Why is Shiner in the wrong here ?

If someone is in the wrong it's the Retailer.

Shiner gave them several attempts to quote him the price that other places charge but they apparently quoted him the wholesale price.
they let shine pay for it.. and even sign the receipt ?

as far as I know the deal has been complete.

Why doesn't the business suck it up and let shiner have it for what they quoted him ?

As far as shiner could have known, the business could have been willing to get rid of an item that has been sitting there for some time.

I've bought items at certain retail store that other retail stores charge double or triple for. Why ? because they are clearing away their stock.

 

[DurocShark]

Putting to rest the "you knew the product cost more at a different store owned by the same people" argument: Wal Mart and Sam's Club are owned by the same company. So I should pay Wal Mart prices at Sam's Club? 'nuff said.

Shiner: They tried to charge you $880??? After saying $498 was their wholesale price? Fvck 'em. Go for the throat!!!

 

[rahvin]

Once compensation is exchanged a contract is formed. If breeched the contract damages will be the cost difference to buy the appliance somewhere else. Shiner did nothing wrong, Capitalism is Capitalism.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: rahvin
Once compensation is exchanged a contract is formed. If breeched the contract damages will be the cost difference to buy the appliance somewhere else. Shiner did nothing wrong, Capitalism is Capitalism.

yeap thats right.

Shiner can now go to wherever he wants buy it for whatever price and sue this shitty company for the cost diffrence. Well that is if they dont give him the product for the price they agreed on AND shiner paid.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Just got back from the store. I asked the guy the price again, had him show me the oven in the catalog again, and after he gave me the same $498 price I bought the oven. Wrote him a check, signed the receipt with the price and model number on it, then came back to work. When I got back to work I had a message from the salesman asking me to call him. I did and he of course told me he gave me the wrong price. My response was "Well I have a signed receipt for what you sold it to me for." He told me he was going to cancel my order and I told him he was not going to. He said something I didn't understand then hung up. I've tried calling back several times now but I get no answer. Let the games begin.....

I'm coming in late on this and haven't read all the posts yet but...
- you wrote a check
- it was an order, you have not yet taken delivery.

AFAIK, As long as they don't cash your check, they can withhold the order from you.
Personally, though, I would fight and at least get them to give you a better deal than anyone else would. Call me blind, but I fail to see the moral dilemma in this situation.

edit: read the read of the thread, glad to see it worked out well for you.

edit2:

Originally posted by: dahunan
Whatever dude... HOPE you are HAPPY when that Salesman gets fired and can't feed his family very well

WTF? Having worked in sales for the last 10 years (the last 8 in mortgage lending, where the strong get rich and the weak get eaten), I can tell you that I feel no sympathy for the salesperson in this case. He fscked up, he pays. A good salesperson is either competent... or he is fired. Sales is the ultimate in dog-eat-dog capitalism, it is NOT charity. End of story.

 

[T2T III]

Wow, it sounds like you got a great price. You've taken all of the steps to confirm that they were providing you with a legitimate price. Now, just wait until the oven(s) arrive so you can put them to use. The store probably quote you "their" cost for the item. Worst case is that they'll probably break even on the deal - and not make any profit. However, with you, they've earned a customer for life. Next time you need another appliance, go back to them and make another purchase - even if they're $50 more the local competitor.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I was originally criticizing his ethics... but he has since called and THE OWNER agreed to fix things and sell it to him for 10% above their cost and some other small fees..... shinerburke agreed with this and drove to the Appliance store to write a new check for the Price The OWNER AGREED TO....

Now the owner is backing out of his deal and lying to shinerburke and causing added stress BY HIS LIES..


Sounds a bit like Saddam and UN Resolutions....

I'm starting to agree.

 

[ElFenix]

much as this hurts to do, i'm going to have to be 100% in agreement with the sooner here.

i think i need a beer now

 

[dxkj]

I think its hilarious when people dont bother reading through a thread the whole way and think things are at a certain state still, such as the guy a few posts above me


in the current state they are trying to charge him around 880 total, saying 800 was warehouse price.....

ut

It was their mistake, and your right to hold them to it. Not that its a right thing to do, but you did have the law on your side.


let me state for those of you who are uncertain

THIS IS NOT GOING TO RUIN THIS BUSINESS

selling an item at cost or 10% above cost means they are out shipping cost and the cost that their employess put into unloading it, etc.... 50 dollars isnt going to ruin a store, nor would 100, ESPECIALLY with the type of markup we saw here... one sale would cover for 5 mistakes '2

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: dxkj
I think its hilarious when people dont bother reading through a thread the whole way and think things are at a certain state still, such as the guy a few posts above me

its the skoorb effect

 

[dxkj]

Skoorb effect? sounds like some kinda nasty beer

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: dxkj
Skoorb effect? sounds like some kinda nasty beer

skoorb is from a whole land of nasty beers

 

[Ultima]

Well if they don't want to honor the deal then screw 'em.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Ultima
Well if they don't want to honor the deal then screw 'em.

This is what bugs me about this whole situation, he started out not wanting to "screw them" and knew that unless the mistake was corrected, they would be screwed. Now that he chose to wuss out(remain silent), he wants to "screw them".

Colour me confused.

 

[woowoo]

FWIW
MAP Pricing=Minimum Advertised Price

Dealers agree not to sell Appliances below a MAP Price.
This insures that the manufacturer keeps a healthy profit margin
This retailer has written a contract to sell below MAP Price
He has violated his deal with the manufacturer

If this were a GE oven
He could loose the GE brand alltogether

I would contact the head of the sales division at GE or whoever
This retailer is representing them
They should take care of you

Also
A 60-70% markup is not uncommon

 

[TranceNation]

I still think that you should just drop the whole thing. This is almost as equivalent as the price mistakes on the online websites, people know that they are wrong yet still take advantage of it. Even though you were quoted a low price, it was probably from somebody new, even though you asked the same person to check the price 2 times, that's like clicking on the refresh button on a website. Yeah they should probably have someone else quote the price but that doesn't change the fact.
As far as the 10 % deal, did you actually agree on the price over the phone? I mean you didn't say anything like 'Ok, so 10 % makes the final cost xxx, is that correct?' That would have cleared up any confusion.

 

[3L33T32003]

I think this is one of those rare instances where I follow the Bill Clinton model of morality.

I never heard of Bill Clinton screwing someone over in a business deal...but I have heard of republicans doing it all the time. Are you saying that when you do something repugnant that it reflects BC? I find it funny how "morals" get thrown out the window by conservatives when it comes to making a buck.

Greedy Ferengi suck ball$.

 

[Ornery]

"A 60-70% markup is not uncommon..."

Come on, really? That can't be true! :Q

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Anyway

Shiner: Your moral dilemna started when you *knew* the price was wrong, you should have acted then! I can't believe how you started struggling with being noble and now have completely turned around to thinking that being ignoble is noble, I'm speechless! :|

The thing is, he didn't KNOW the quoted price was wrong (to KNOW, he'd have to have seen the store's wholesale invoice or something, which he did not). However, he had strong suspicions that the price was incorrect, so he did the ethical thing and asked the salesman to check the price MULTIPLE TIMES!!! In my view, he's done enough.

BEFORE the contract was written, he gave the salesman MULTIPLE opportunities to correct what shiner suspected (but did not KNOW) to be a mistake, and the salesman choose not to practice due diligence. Therefore, it's a binding contract, and shiner did nothing ethically wrong. Certainly, he could be charitable and pay full list for the stove (heck, he could be even more charitable and pay double for the stove - I'm sure they'd love that), but there's no ethical duty he do so. The store could just as well be charitable and give it to him at cost.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"A 60-70% markup is not uncommon..."

Come on, really? That can't be true! :Q

Really you don't believe that. Food, fashion clothing and jewerly is around 200-400%.
They have lights, rent, and sales people to pay. After that's paid I assume the margins are similar in all businesses.

 

[bunker]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: Ornery
"A 60-70% markup is not uncommon..."

Come on, really? That can't be true! :Q

Really you don't believe that. Food, fashion clothing and jewerly is around 200-400%.
They have lights, rent, and sales people to pay. After that's paid I assume the margins are similar in all businesses.

Furniture is usually 100-150% as well.

 

[Ornery]

I've heard furniture markup is huge, but I also know you can bargain the price down to palatable levels. I've seen washers and driers going for under $300.00! How much friggen markup can there be?

I know computer parts and electronics parts have thin profit margins. Auto parts can be had pretty damn cheap, for domestics anyway. There can't be too much markup on those. I'd like to know how large appliances escaped this fierce competition?