Moral Dilemma - UPDATED! I tried to be nice.....the fight begins anew.

[BoberFett]

In any situation where there's bargaining between seller and buyer, there's no reason for the buyer to tell the seller what other people are charging for the identical product.

If you go to a new car dealer and they quote you a price that's $500 less than the dealer on the other side of town, you have no ethical reason to tell them what other people are charging. As soon as you do, of course the salesman is going to say "Oh, whoops, my mistake, yeah, our price is the same as theirs [sucker]."

 

[DWray]

Originally posted by: 3L33T32003

I think this is one of those rare instances where I follow the Bill Clinton model of morality.

I never heard of Bill Clinton screwing someone over in a business deal...but I have heard of republicans doing it all the time. Are you saying that when you do something repugnant that it reflects BC? I find it funny how "morals" get thrown out the window by conservatives when it comes to making a buck.

Greedy Ferengi suck ball$.

^This message is brought to you by James McDougal.

 

[shiner]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back on here and post, I had to attend a birthday dinner/party for my Mom last night and today I have been in meetings until now.

Yesterday evening after my last post here I called a friend of mine who's husband is a reporter for one of the local news stations. I told her what was going on and asked if her husband might be interested in the story. She said he most likely would and gave me the number to call him at work. I called and explained what had happened to him and he said this would be an excellent consumer corner type of story for the station. He didn't think it would come to that after the store was contacted but he was willing to do some leg work for me. I gave him all the important numbers and names for the store and he called them. About 20 minutes later the store called me and offered to honor the original deal for $498. I later called my friend's husband back and thanked him for getting in my corner and told him that I owed he and his wife dinner. He laughed about the whole incident and said they tried to weasel around for a while until he told them he would be there with a news crew this morning if the issue was not resolved. When he said that the owner totally caved and said he would honor my purchase that was written out on my receipt. Score one for the media.

For those of you that think that I am somehow a slimeball for doing this let me say something. I knew that the price they quoted me was wrong but I gave them several chances to check their numbers and correct their error. I also had a suspicions they had offered my the item at wholesale but couldn't be sure until later when they told me that was indeed what had happened. After thinking it over for a while and speaking with the store owner I had decided to let them off the hook and take the offer of their price +10%. When I arrived at the store to sign the papers for that deal and they reneged on it I got very angry and decided I was going to hold them to their original deal. I had been willing to bend and give them a break, but when they decided to play hard ball with me I decided to hit a hard fast line drive right back at them. Price +10% was more than fair in this instance but they broke that deal and forced me back to the original one.

As for those doubting the markup amount. I have a couple of friends who own different businesses and it is amazing what the markup is. One of them owns a tire store and markup there is typically between 300%-400% per tire for the major brands. He sells them for anywhere between 100%-200% markup and still makes plenty of money and gives people a better deal. Another buddy of mine comes from a family who owns a furniture store and like someone on here said the markup on that merchandise can range anywhere from 100%-300%.

The appliance store I was dealing with had plenty of chances to correct their error and never did. They also had a chance to make a profit, a small one, but they screwed themselves out of that. I'm sorry if you think I'm an ass for all of this, but I feel that given the circumstances I did what I had to.

 

[Ornery]

" One of them owns a tire store and markup there is typically between 300%-400% per tire for the major brands."

Holy SH|T! :Q

 

[Amused]

It is the obligation of the retailer to set the price. It is NOT the obligation of the consumer to tell the retailer what the price should be.

Shinerburke didn't scam these guys, they scammed themselves.

As a retailer myself, I can say with no hesitation that the price marked or agreed to is the final price. You cannot back out of an agreement, or a contract. If YOU make a mistake and price something wrong, it is YOUR mistake and YOU pay for it.

Many here know I hold very high moral standards. What Shinerburke did was NOT immoral IMHO. He gave them more than enough oportunities to set, and REset the price. What the retailer did by trying to back out of a contract WAS immoral.

There is a reason why the law is on Shinerburke's side here. If you don't know why, maybe you should check it out.

 

[nord1899]

Just hope they aren't going to do the installation. After all the crap you've done to them, they might screw that up somehow.

I'm not saying you were wrong in any way whatsoever in what you did, they just might seek some sort of retribution for this.


And yes markup is crazy. A friend of mine owns a gaming store and has connections to get DVD's at over 50% of sticker price. Very nice when you want to get a box set that costs nearly $150 at BB.

 

[Ornery]

Amused, do you mark your stuff up 300%? Damn...

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

So the told you that they would sell you the oven at their first quote + 10% and then backed out when you came in? that makes NO sense. Sounds like a communication problem between who you spoke to on the phone and whoever you spoke to at the store.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Amused, do you mark your stuff up 300%? Damn...

It depends. You see a 300% markup and immediately think it's a ripoff, but you don't count all the overhead a retailer must pay.

There is rent, federal, state, and local business taxes, payroll, benefits, insurance, utilities, theft, damage...

I could go on, but I think most folks will understand that 100%+ markups are not as profitable as some folks may think. Most business have very, VERY small profit margins because of competition.

 

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: Amused
It is the obligation of the retailer to set the price. It is NOT the obligation of the consumer to tell the retailer what the price should be.

Shinerburke didn't scam these guys, they scammed themselves.

As a retailer myself, I can say with no hesitation that the price marked or agreed to is the final price. You cannot back out of an agreement, or a contract. If YOU make a mistake and price something wrong, it is YOUR mistake and YOU pay for it.

Many here know I hold very high moral standards. What Shinerburke did was NOT immoral IMHO. He gave them more than enough oportunities to set, and REset the price. What the retailer did by trying to back out of a contract WAS immoral.

There is a reason why the law is on Shinerburke's side here. If you don't know why, maybe you should check it out.

i agree here, Amused

 

[Ornery]

I understand, but computer parts outlets, like NewEgg, have all that overhead too, yet they don't seem to have to gouge the hell out of us. Man, when you try to cut a little break out of these tire dealers or even appliance stores, they act like they're doing you a huge favor by giving you a free dilivery or 5% off. I'll be dealing in a whole new light after hearing this!

 

[godmare]

Somebody probably has said this already, but I'd go back to the store with the cheap price and tell them it sounds very inexpensive, and you don't want to rip them off or anything. Maybe they have some sort of clearance on the item (even though he'd have to order it *shrug*) or maybe a discount organized with the manufacturer
Could be a lot of explanations for a legitimately lower price.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: yamahaXS
So the told you that they would sell you the oven at their first quote + 10% and then backed out when you came in? that makes NO sense. Sounds like a communication problem between who you spoke to on the phone and whoever you spoke to at the store.

That's what happened. I spoke to the owner, he made the promise of cost +10%, free delivery, and a $50 creidt on my next purchase. When I got there to close that deal he tried to raise the price on me and play a little game with me. That's when I got mad and decided to make them stick to the original deal.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: godmare
Somebody probably has said this already, but I'd go back to the store with the cheap price and tell them it sounds very inexpensive, and you don't want to rip them off or anything. Maybe they have some sort of clearance on the item (even though he'd have to order it *shrug*) or maybe a discount organized with the manufacturer
Could be a lot of explanations for a legitimately lower price.

And so what happens when a store intentionally prices an item extremely low? Do you go in and refuse to pay the low price that they actually intended you to pay? They'll gladly take your money, if you're foolish enough to part with it needlessley.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: godmare
Somebody probably has said this already, but I'd go back to the store with the cheap price and tell them it sounds very inexpensive, and you don't want to rip them off or anything. Maybe they have some sort of clearance on the item (even though he'd have to order it *shrug*) or maybe a discount organized with the manufacturer
Could be a lot of explanations for a legitimately lower price.

People like you deserve to be taken advantage of.

Way to go shiner! Excellent thread, 5 stars!

 

[godmare]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: godmare
Somebody probably has said this already, but I'd go back to the store with the cheap price and tell them it sounds very inexpensive, and you don't want to rip them off or anything. Maybe they have some sort of clearance on the item (even though he'd have to order it *shrug*) or maybe a discount organized with the manufacturer
Could be a lot of explanations for a legitimately lower price.

And so what happens when a store intentionally prices an item extremely low? Do you go in and refuse to pay the low price that they actually intended you to pay? They'll gladly take your money, if you're foolish enough to part with it needlessley.

Most people, especially a small family run appliance store, would really appreciate you saving them a bundle- if it was an error, they'd probably discount the item some in appreciation of your honesty, and you can walk out of the store feeling good about what you did, instead of feeling like you dealt with them underhandedly. If if is supposed to be that low, then they'll say 'yup, that's the right price'
That's what I'd do, if you'd do differently that's your prerogative.
Armed with a quote, you'd be legally in the right to demand the lower price(so there's a recourse, even), but that doesn't mean that's what you should do, especially in a small company.

There's this neat privately owned auto-parts store near me. It's often times more expensive; some items are less expensive comparitively, and they carry a lot of obscure parts that no one else does. the owner/manager is extremely knowledgeable, a lot more so than the average daft Auto-zone employee, so I find it very refereshing, and helpful if I'm stuck, to shop there occasionally.
The point is, small businesses need al the support they can get in the face of corporate and chain-store America, and the help they provide often times outweighs the price difference. Small companies need local support- rip off Home Depot instead.

 

[Jzero]

Most people, especially a small family run appliance store, would really appreciate you saving them a bundle- if it was an error, they'd probably discount the item some in appreciation of your honesty, and you can walk out of the store feeling good about what you did, instead of feeling like you dealt with them underhandedly. If if is supposed to be that low, then they'll say 'yup, that's the right price'
That's what I'd do, if you'd do differently that's your prerogative.

Well in this case, they said "Yup, that's the right price" three different times over 2 days.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I understand, but computer parts outlets, like NewEgg, have all that overhead too, yet they don't seem to have to gouge the hell out of us. Man, when you try to cut a little break out of these tire dealers or even appliance stores, they act like they're doing you a huge favor by giving you a free dilivery or 5% off. I'll be dealing in a whole new light after hearing this!

Newegg has less than half the overhead a B&M store does. To save on insurance, Newegg doesn't even allow customer pickup at their location in the CofI in LA. No B&M store, no matter where they are, can compete with an internet store or MO only store's prices.

Maybe before you judge businesses, you should at least take a business course or two. Better yet, run your own business to see what I mean.

 

[godmare]

Originally posted by: PipBoy
People like you deserve to be taken advantage of.

Way to go shiner! Excellent thread, 5 stars!

people like me deserve to have honest business dealt with them. Not that I'm surprised the majority hear would backstab anyone to save some money.

Well in this case, they said "Yup, that's the right price" three different times over 2 days.

So what's the problem? If Shinerburke wasn't conflicted still, there wouldn't be a thread here where everybody can give me a hard time for my opinion.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: godmare

The point is, small businesses need al the support they can get in the face of corporate and chain-store America, and the help they provide often times outweighs the price difference. Small companies need local support- rip off Home Depot instead.

How about you don't "rip-off" anyone? What Shiner did was not theft or a rip-off. He bought an item at the MUTUALLY AGREED UPON price and was even nice enough to let them double check their price.

 

[godmare]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: godmare

The point is, small businesses need al the support they can get in the face of corporate and chain-store America, and the help they provide often times outweighs the price difference. Small companies need local support- rip off Home Depot instead.

How about you don't "rip-off" anyone? What Shiner did was not theft or a rip-off. He bought an item at the MUTUALLY AGREED UPON price and was even nice enough to let them double check their price.

Okay, 'rip-off' maybe was misstating it. If that's their price then what is the problem?
Buy the damn oven, then.

 

[Jzero]

So what's the problem? If Shinerburke wasn't conflicted still, there wouldn't be a thread here where everybody can give me a hard time for my opinion.

The situation was resolved. You should read the whole thread before you start posting...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: godmare

Originally posted by: PipBoy
People like you deserve to be taken advantage of.

Way to go shiner! Excellent thread, 5 stars!

people like me deserve to have honest business dealt with them. Not that I'm surprised the majority hear would backstab anyone to save some money.

Backstab? The only backstabber here was the retailer trying to back out of a legal, ethical, and moral sales contract.

Again, the legal and moral responsibility to set a price correctly rests solely on the retailer, NOT the consumer.

There are laws in favor of Shiner for a reason. Can you guess why those laws exist?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: godmare

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: godmare

The point is, small businesses need al the support they can get in the face of corporate and chain-store America, and the help they provide often times outweighs the price difference. Small companies need local support- rip off Home Depot instead.

How about you don't "rip-off" anyone? What Shiner did was not theft or a rip-off. He bought an item at the MUTUALLY AGREED UPON price and was even nice enough to let them double check their price.

Okay, 'rip-off' maybe was misstating it. If that's their price then what is the problem?
Buy the damn oven, then.

Read the damn thread before you post.

 

[brxndxn]

Geez.. Let's go over some things that ARE negotiable:

-cars
-appliances
-TIRES
-car repair (NEVER pay a shop fee or any other 'fee' that you were not already quoted. If you were quoted $300 for a new water pump and installation, then get a bill for $320 before tax that has a $20 'shop fee', you can legally make them remove it.)
-CELL PHONE BILLS (I've argued my way out of about $500 in expenses in the past two years when they've misled me or put me on a plan where another person in the same plan pays less)
-Cable bills (when your cable and internet go down, you get reimbursed for that)
-Credit Card fees (look closely at your statements... there's probby a $20 maintenance charge.. that's pure profit for them and they usually don't even tell you about those charges)

Anything else that's usually negotiable? That's what I can think of for now.