Moral Relationship Question

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IJump

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2001
4,640
11
76
<< I want to PLAN my children, not run off and get married, and start collecting food stamps. >>

That's a good plan. (but just because someone doesn't plan children doesn't mean food stamps is in the future.)

Keep your head on straight through this. If things don't work out, you are still plenty young enough to find someone else.
 

Tauren

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2001
3,880
1
0
It sounds like it is doomed. If she can't let it go they don't stand a chance.
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
7,735
0
0
I don't have time to explain the value of marriage, but here's a link to check out:

Living Together Before Marriage


And here's an easy to understand translation:

Livin' Togither Befo'e Marriage
Letter #1

Dear Dr. Harley,
In yer Augest 5, 1996 Q&amp;A column on Honesty an' Openness (part 2) yo' wrote: &quot;One other suggesshun: Don't live wif etch other befo'e yo' marry up wif. Eight-five percent of them who does end up divo'ced, cuss it all t' tarnation. Some day I'll write a Q&amp;A column explainin' whuffo'.&quot;

I've been readin' th' info'mashun on yer web site an' jest recently brought home a copy of th' emoshunal needs quesshunnaire t'go on over wif mah (live-in) fellafriend, cuss it all t' tarnation. We have set aside time etch week t'discuss one quesshun on it at a time. We haf jest started this so we ain't gotten mighty far yet. We is lookin' at this hyar as preventative maintenance so we does not helter-skelter into problems in th' future. We haf been togither fo' 2 years but doesn't feel ready t'git married up wif yet. ah reckon these exercises may he'p us figger out whuffo' thet is.

So far, jest about ev'rythin' I've see makes a lot of sense, but now yo've got me wonnerin' whuffo' yo' feel varmints sh'd not live togither befo'e bein' married up wif. Is it 'some day' yet?

E.N.



Dear E.N.,
Th' number of unmarried up wif couples livin' togither has increased dramatically on over th' past few decades, an' ah speck thet it will corntinue t'increase. Th' rashunale is simple: &quot;By livin' togither befo'e marriage, we'll knows how compatible we are.&quot; Presumably, eff'n a couple kin git along livin' in th' same apartment befo'e marriage, they will be able to git along wif etch other af'er marriage.

It's a temppin' argoomnt. Af'er all, a date tends t'be artificial, ah reckon. Etch varmint is &quot;up&quot; fo' th' occashun, an' they make an effo't t'have a fine time togither. But marriage is quite diffrunt fum datin'. In marriage, couples is togither when they're &quot;down,&quot; too. W'dn't it make sense fo' a couple t'live togither fo' a spell, jest t'see how they reack to etch other's &quot;down&quot; times? Eff'n they discovah thet they kin't adjest when they live togither, they doesn't hafta hoof it through th' hassle of a divo'ce. Besides, ain't it easier to adjest when yo' doesn't feel trapped by marriage?

Th' problem wif them argoomnts is thet marriage changes ev'rythin'. Eff'n couples thet live togither reckon thet af'er marriage ev'rythin' will be th' same, they doesn't unnerstan' whut marriage does t'a couple, both positively an' negatively.

In mah experience an' in repo'ts I've read, th' chances of a divo'ce af'er livin' togither is huge, much higher than fo' couples who haf not lived togither prio' to marriage. Eff'n livin' togither were a tess of marital compatibility, th' statistics sh'd show opposite results -- couples livin' togither sh'd haf stronger marriages. But they doesn't. They haf weaker marriages.

To unnerstan' whuffo' this hyar is th' case, ah suggess thet yo' cornsider whuffo' couples who live togither doesn't marry up wif. Ask yo'seff thet mighty quesshun. Whuffo' did yo' choose t'live witcher fellafriend instead of marry up wifin' him?

Th' answer is thet yo' were not ready t'make thet commitment t'him yet. Fust, yo' wanted t'see eff'n yo' still loved him af'er yo' cooked meals togither, cleaned the apartment togither an' slepp togither. In other wo'ds, yo' wanted t'see whut married up wif life'd be like wifout th' commitment of marriage.

But whut yo' doesn't seem t'reckanize is thet yo' will nevah knows whut married up wif life is like unless yer married up wif. Th' commitment of marriage adds a dimenshun t'yer relashunship thet puts ev'rythin' on its ear. Right now, yer testin' etch other t'see if yer compatible. Eff'n eifer of yo' slips up, th' tess is on over, an' yer out th' dore. Marriage don't wawk thet way. Slip-ups doesn't ind th' marriage, they jest ind th' love yo' haf fo' etch other.

Whut in tarnation, exackly, is th' commitment of marriage? It is an agreement thet yo' will take care of etch other fo' life, regardless of life's ups an' downs. Yo' will stick it out togither through thick an' skimpy. But th' commitment of livin' togither ain't like thet at all, ah reckon. It is simply a month-to-month rental agreement. As long as yo' behave yo'seff an' keep me happy, I'll stick aroun'.

Habits is hard t'bust, an' couples thet live togither befo'e marriage git into the habit of follerin' their month-to-month rental agreement. In fack, they offen decide to marry up wif, not on account o' they is willin' t'make a lifetime commitment t'etch other, but on account o' th' arrangement has wawked out so fine thet they kin't imagine bustin' their lease, so t'speak. Shet mah mouth! They say th' wo'ds of th' marital agreement, but they still haf the terms of their rental agreement in mind, cuss it all t' tarnation.

Couples who haf not lived togither befo'e marriage, on t'other han', haf not lived unner th' terms of th' month-to-month rental agreement. They begin their relashunship assumin' thet they is in this hyar thin' fo' life, an' all their habits usually refleck thet commitment.

Th' Policy of Joint Agreement, fo' example, don't make much sense fo' a couple livin' togither prio' t'marriage. &quot;Nevah does ennythin' wifout an inthusiastic agreement between yo' an' yer friend,&quot; it is thunk,'d not be a fair tess of yer compatibility. A better tess w'd be fo' etch of yo' t'do whutevah yo' please, an' then see eff'n yo' still git along, acco'din' t' th' code o' th' heells!

But a nooly married up wif couple makes a deliberate effo't t'accommodate etch other, on account o' they knows their relashunship will be fo' life. They be hankerin' t'build compatibility, not test it. So th' Policy of Joint Agreement makes all th' sense in th' wo'ld t'a couple who has set out t'live their lives togither.

It's true, thet a couple who lives togither kin foller th' Policy of Joint Agreement fum th' day they move in, as enny fool kin plainly see. They kin commit themselves t'etch other's happiness as eff'n they were married up wif. They kin on overcome Love Besters thet c'd destroy their love fo' etch other. But couples who live togither tend not t'do them thin's on account o' their month-to-month rental agreement does not deman' it. They lack motivashun t'put etch other fust in their lives on account o' they is testin' th' relashunship. They're not sho'nuff they be hankerin' etch other fo' life, an' so they is usually not willin' t'make th' all-out commitment thet the Policy of Joint Agreement deman's.

When a couple has lived togither wifout th' Policy of Joint Agreement, it's mighty difficult t'apply it once they is married up wif. Whut in tarnation they usually does is stay th' course. They figger thet their month-to-month agreement got them thet far, so whuffo' change it.

Marriage has a mighty positive effeck on a relashunship fo' them who haf not lived togither, on account o' they tend t'foller th' Policy of Joint Agreement wifout havin' evah heard of it. They knows thet they will be togither fo' life, so they make an effo't t'create a compatible lifestyle fum day one.

But marriage has a mighty negative effeck on them who haf been in th' habit of follerin' th' month-to-month agreement. Th' commitment of marriage is see as the &quot;other guy's&quot; commitment. Them who haf lived togither prio' t'marriage feel thet their own behavio' has passed th' test, an' enny further accommodashun sh'd be unnecessary. Wo'se yet, they reckon they doesn't need t'be on their bess behavio' on account o' their spouse cain't leave now thet they're married up wif.

Habits is hard t'bust, an' them who haf lived togither develop habits thet wawk only when they're not married up wif. Marriage ruins it all, ah reckon.

Now, ah's not suggestin' thet yo' an' yer fellafriend sh'd avoid marriage, but ah's warnin' yo' thet unless yo' bust outta th' habits thet come fum a month-to-month rental agreement, yer marriage will be a disaster.

Begin by follerin' mah Policy of Joint Agreement. It's not impostible t'foller when yo' care fo' etch other's feelin's an' put them fust in yer life. Yo' will create a lifestyle thet fits yo' both puffickly, an' yo'll wonner whuffo' yo' didn't marry up wif etch other to begin wif.

Livin' togither may prove compatibility fo' a moment in time, but it provides no evidence fo' yer happiness togither on over a lifetime. Th' only way yo' kin haf thet happiness an' compatibility is eff'n yo' agree t'take etch other's feelin's into account ev'ry time yo' make a decishun. An' thass whut varmints who marry up wif af'er not havin' lived togither is highly motivated t'do.

 

obiwaynekenobi

Golden Member
May 18, 2001
1,971
0
0
Some woman hold gruges that they shouldn't. They have no right, but they do it because it's a control factor.

if the kiss wasn't a steamy hot lets-have-sex-kiss, and she's not there anymore then why worry about it. yes it happened but if he's sincer and will not do it again. chalk it up as a mistake that he made in his life and get over it. if she is consistently bringing it up it's because 1. she insecure. and 2. she likes having that control over him.
 

Keribeth

Senior member
Mar 28, 2001
441
1
0
You've got to be kidding me. You're saying that cheating on someone is not a valid reason to upset and that she is doing this because women like the control? Did you even read the rest of his posts? He is the one that can't let it go. And I don't blame him. Milking it might not be the best way either but it sounds like he's not in a position right now to leave.
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
7,735
0
0
Actually, he said he can't let go because he just bought a new truck. I've heard of staying together for the kids, but...
 

obiwaynekenobi

Golden Member
May 18, 2001
1,971
0
0
you have got to make your own decision dude. Seriously alright.

If you don't think that you can get past it, maybe it's time to move on.

My wife hates that I'm into technology. just hates it. But it is what I do for a living. abot a year into our marriage she went off on me about it. I basiclly told her that she can either support me and what I do for a living that is paying the bills and making money or she can continue to complain that I make more money than average workers in the area and I'll leave her because she won't ever appericate the benefits or my sacrafices. OR she could just deal with the fact that this is what I do for a living, and it what enables us to live. Granted I did spend a little time on my computer. hardly 99% it was more like 50 to 60 and most of that was when she was SLEEPING for gods sakes. and the rest was at my office. where it was &quot;required&quot; for research purposes.

But there is a flip side to this story, while I was at work. working. she was at home. on the computer.. she'd do her 8 to 10 hours while I Was at work. so she had gotten her &quot;fill&quot; for the day before I had even gotten home. She decided that since this is what I do that it was enough. even though anyone with any professionalism knows that are just certain things that you just don't do at work.

She'll never understand. I wish my boss would let me bring in my wife for a week, so she realizes what it is I do all day.

or a webcam.
 

obiwaynekenobi

Golden Member
May 18, 2001
1,971
0
0


<< You've got to be kidding me. You're saying that cheating on someone is not a valid reason to upset. >>



and yes I read the rest of the post AFTER I sent the message but I decided to leave it anyway.

yes Cheating is a very vaild reason. but if she tells you that she's &quot;over it&quot; and has &quot;forgiven&quot; you or what not. and yet continues to bring it up she's either A> not over it. or B> knows that she has a big weapon that she can use against you if your arguing. Hell Knows that what my wife does with everyone, and it pisses me off becuase she brings stuff up that happen years ago. and its' so petty.

people make mistakes, this was her mistake. if he is having a hard time letting it go even thoughh it's over I think that maybe he should either seek counlsouling or maybe it's time for him to move on.

this isn't a judgement call for anyone but him. he needs to make his own decision.
 

gwlam12

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2001
6,946
1
71
it's possible. if she trusts you, and if she wants ur relationship to progress, then she should forget about the kiss and move on. she should know that u didnt mean any harm.
 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
3,001
0
0


<< Actually, he said he can't let go because he just bought a new truck. I've heard of staying together for the kids, but... >>


I'm still with her because I love her deeply, and unconditionally. A relatively high truck payment is just something that I am worried about because my savings account took a hit for that down payment, therefore limiting my options. You took that out of context and made it appear to be the only reason. That simply means that if I do decide to leave her, I can't just rent a place and pack up. I will have to drag it out, which will suck alot. I would prefer to just up and leave while she is 'away' and just leave her the martha stewart lookin curtains and couches and all that crap. I don't need that stuff
 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
3,001
0
0
LMAO!!!! Stark did you retype that whole thing by hand?!?!?!? I am totally impressed by your hick linguistic prowess! You could write propaganda for the KKK itself! Truly outstanding work!
 

loosbrew

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2000
1,336
1
0
Jenn and i met when i was 15 and she was 16. 8 years later we have been living together for about 4. if she kissed someone else, i would ask alot of questions. of course i would be mad, be even more if it &quot;meant&quot; something. i would be more worried if she still had feelings for someone other than me. but people have to forgive because the both of you will make mistakes now and again and maybe now you will learn that you need to spend some more time with her. dont be mean. be polite about your feelings. ask nicely if she honestly would ever want to be someone else. you guys are still very young, as am I, but i think that many young people still dont really fall in love, truly. they think they are, but arent devoted 100% to the relationship. the days go on, without any problems, but then something like this happens and it really starts to show howmuch one loves the other. i would never ever cheat on jenn, and havent touched another girl since i was 15. i know she feels the same way and its all good, but if it were to happen with her and someone else, i would honestly have to question her intergrity and would like to discuss some answers and thoughts and etc...
the best thing for any relationship is communication.

loosbrew
 

thien_vu

Member
Oct 9, 1999
101
0
0
You have to really ask yourself if you want to continue the relationship.

&quot;Milking the situation&quot; for what its worth really means you're selfish and don't really care about her. I don't mean to be attacking you because she's the one that did something wrong. But if you're having feelings of exacting some sort of revenge or making her feel guilty for it, maybe staying in the relationship is not the way to go. I'm pretty sure she's feeling pretty lousy all ready.

If you're really not sure, I guess the only way is to take her out. By that I mean take her out and see if the spark is still there. See if you two can have fun &quot;like the good old days.&quot; You've been together for 4 years, you know what I'm talking about.

If it turns out that you can't forgive and put it behind you, then maybe you're not ready to go on with it. Its ok, people change, situations change. You're both young, everything will take care of itself, with a little nudge in the right direction.
 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
3,001
0
0
yes 'milking the situation' is childish and selfish, but my trust has been shaken deeply and I want some satisfaction. I really think we will stay together and try to rebuild things. I agree completely with the person who said that the trust will never be as strong as it was before.

I started this post to hear from people who may have been in similar situations and to hear how they reacted and how they feel in retrospect. I got a whole lot more, and I thank you all for taking the time to hear me whine
Thanks!
 

Azraele

Elite Member
Nov 5, 2000
16,524
29
91
Now that you've talked to OT and have a clearer head, talk to her. A key part in relationships is communication. Without that, a relationship cannot survive. Talk to her about how you feel, your worries that she might stray, your confusion. Then listen to her worries and fears. Try and come up with solutions. If you really want to make this relationship work, it's going to take a lot of effort. If you do leave, don't just slip away while she's gone. You love her. She deserves to be told face to face.
 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
3,001
0
0
I'm bad with goodbyes. I'd rather get my stuff out so I didn't lose my resolve to leave in the 'goodbye talk'. I'm a sucker for a crying woman....
 

Azraele

Elite Member
Nov 5, 2000
16,524
29
91
Bad or not you owe it to her if you love her. Perhaps you could compromise and tell her to her face but arrange a day (let her know this) when she won't be home that you actually leave.....if it comes to that.
 
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