Morality Meta-thread

[v-600]

I just watched this on the TED site. Its a few years old now, but well worth a watch.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

Then read:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2326136

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2334324

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2333918

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2333502

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2334602

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2333426

You can see the ideas and arguments from the video played out in these threads any others. It is also quite a useful reminder that if you have a group of liberals together, they become as closed minded and controlling as many individual liberals believe groups of conservatives to be. It is very difficult to see it from within the group though.

I wonder how many individuals (whatever your stance) really are willing/able or actually do "step out" from their group and realise that other peoples views are just as correct and justified and valuable as yours.

 

[GreenMeters]

I wonder how many individuals (whatever your stance) really are willing/able or actually do "step out" from their group and realise that other peoples views are just as correct and justified and valuable as yours.

No. Opinions based on fantasy not actually as justified and valuable as those based on facts. Truthiness is not a replacement for truth. Greed is not good. Given how conservatives rage against the supposed "moral relativism" of liberals, it's stunning how those same conservatives' economic, political, and ethical arguments so often boil down to "my feelings are just as important as your facts and knowledge".

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Arguing that liberals and conservatives use the same emotionally-driven processes to arrive at conclusions doesn't undercut liberal views or make conservative views just as correct. Your views are correct or not if they are demonstrably correct or not regardless of how they are arrived at.

"my feelings are just as important as your facts and knowledge".

This is exactly just more of that.

And for some fine examples of emotionally driven morality just read some of the comments to this story:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...er-she-ate-rat-poison-while-pregnant#comments

 

[OinkBoink]

At OP:

I see that two of the threads you've quoted were started by me.

Being Indian, I have a very blurred idea of what the terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean in the American political context. To me, they're just words.

That being said, I think you'd do better and more people would take interest in your OP if you used BB code to assign those threads their actual thread titles. The thought of opening each thread and looking at its title would put some or many people off immediately.

For instance: BB Code List

 

[Moonbeam]

I am not sure what you are intending to say here:

v: You can see the ideas and arguments from the video played out in these threads any others.

M: This does not tell me what ideas and arguments you are seeing played out in the threads you listed even if I think I can see some myself because we may see different things.

v: It is also quite a useful reminder that if you have a group of liberals together, they become as closed minded and controlling as many individual liberals believe groups of conservatives to be.

M: Perhaps you saw a useful reminder which I missed so it would help me to know what reminder you saw, particularly if your next sentence is correct:

v: It is very difficult to see it from within the group though.


v: I wonder how many individuals (whatever your stance) really are willing/able or actually do "step out" from their group and realise that other peoples views are just as correct and justified and valuable as yours.

M: I do not see how you reached this universal claim from the specifics you listed so far. I do not know, for example, what you mean by 'correct'. I am of the habit of saying that folk who say the sky is green are incorrect, but they may have been taught the wrong word for blue. That would still make them incorrect in my book, the dictionary where words are defined.

In shout, it seems to me that you have an opinion you want to express that isn't clear to me.

As far as liberals vs. conservatives go, with regard to morality, the point that fascinates me is the fact that conservatives can understand liberals better than they understand conservatives because they have a wider range of moral categories, for example, a need for purity based on a reaction of disgust that liberals generally don't seem to experience to the same degree. But I believe this reaction can be one that is induced by programming in childhood. If so, then while conservatives may understand this moral compulsion better than liberals do, it may be just that, more compulsion than morality. An awareness of that fact, if it is one, may help both liberals and conservatives to better understanding, that via psychological analysis, a need for purity may subside.

 

[v-600]

Sorry about the delay. I've just moved to Nepal and only just got 'broad'band in my flat (a staggering 0.25mbps). Certainly looking to upgrade asap.

OinkBoink - I certainly didn't meant to single you out. TBH I didn't look at who posted what, but remembered reading the threads as I watched the video. I also didn't know about the BB codes. You learn something new everyday.

I was attempting to watch the vid again to refresh the points in my mind, but gave up after a long buffering session.

I think the point that made me think most was somewhere in the middle where he mentions something about an ordered/hierarchical society. For people who score highly on that indicator, then any societal/moral decision that increases order is the correct one, and they would prefer to know their place in society more than would prefer a better car, more freedom of expression etc.

If you take the view that a good society is one that promotes its citizens happiness and you have a society with a large proportion of conservative types, then the "right" or moral decision is the one that increases order and decreases uncertainty. I.e. some people prefer the shitty end of the stick as long as they know there is a stick there.