More idiots that did not get their kids vaccinated = dead/sick kids.

[looker001]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: OverVolt
Anyway, thought I might post this for you guys to argue about:

http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#thi

No one even mentioned this, but it's really at the heart of what we are arguing over. Even if a baby is exposed to only 0.5mcg of mercury, that is huge to me. How many times over are they exposed? There are no current limits that I know of for having vaccinations close together.

Do you have any fillings? Yes? Figures.

You can do better than the old thimerosal scare. There is NO evidence that it has any negative effects, you get more mercury from fish, and the only reason why they stopped using it is because of crowd hysteria. Same reason they started calling Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, Magnetic Resonance Imaging...people were scared of Nuclear even though it's exactly the same procedure (which is orders of magnitude safer than a CAT scan). People falsely assume that lawsuits or the phasing-out of certain ingredients constitute proof of "guilt" or "danger", when they do nothing of the sort.

We only use single-dose vaccines here because we are rich enough to throw money away. Overseas they still use thimerosal, because it's safe and cheap.

Originally posted by: looker001
I will never apologize for putting my kids safety first before everyone else.

Except that, metaphorically speaking, you are taking your kid out of the dangerous playground where they might fall off the slide and get hurt, and putting them on the nice safe railroad tracks which are flat and even. Great parenting, champ.:roll:

You are endangering your child, and while I won't hope that an innocent child suffers just to teach YOU a lesson, I hope that if they catch something and suffer permanent damage from it, they blame you for the rest of your life. Because it's YOUR fault, and you are being negligent as a parent.

I can live with that. As i said, I will do what I feel is in the best interest of my child period. With exception of 2 states, no problem will exist in enrolling children in to school.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Originally posted by: looker001

I can live with that. As i said, I will do what I feel is in the best interest of my child period. With exception of 2 states, no problem will exist in enrolling children in to school.

Ok, so just to be clear: you're willing to ignore a vast body of evidence that not only your child is more likely to contract a deadly, preventable disease, but also spread it to other children - just to avoid some extremely rare side effects and a dose of mercury that is less than you would get from eating fish?

Holy run on sentence batman, I know. But come on, REALLY?

 

[looker001]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Originally posted by: looker001

I can live with that. As i said, I will do what I feel is in the best interest of my child period. With exception of 2 states, no problem will exist in enrolling children in to school.

Ok, so just to be clear: you're willing to ignore a vast body of evidence that not only your child is more likely to contract a deadly, preventable disease, but also spread it to other children - just to avoid some extremely rare side effects and a dose of mercury that is less than you would get from eating fish?

Holy run on sentence batman, I know. But come on, REALLY?

Yes, I believe not vaccinating out weights the risk of vaccinating.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: looker001

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: lokiju
My mom is on some kick about not getting my soon to be child vaccinated and my brother and his kid that was just born a few months ago.

I just want to send her the Picard facepalm pic every time as a reply when she emails me this stuff.

Just send her an email asking why she wants your children to die of preventable diseases.

His mom likely will reply and ask him why he wants his kid to be at risk of retardation that is also preventable by not subjecting them to vaccination.

Two things:

1) Autism and the autism spectrum disorders are NOT forms of mental retardation

2) To the best of my knowledge, vaccination has never convincingly been linked to either autism/autism spectrum disorders OR mental retardation/intellectual disabilities

In fact, such claims have been conclusively disproved.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: looker001

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: OverVolt
Anyway, thought I might post this for you guys to argue about:

http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#thi

No one even mentioned this, but it's really at the heart of what we are arguing over. Even if a baby is exposed to only 0.5mcg of mercury, that is huge to me. How many times over are they exposed? There are no current limits that I know of for having vaccinations close together.

Do you have any fillings? Yes? Figures.

You can do better than the old thimerosal scare. There is NO evidence that it has any negative effects, you get more mercury from fish, and the only reason why they stopped using it is because of crowd hysteria. Same reason they started calling Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, Magnetic Resonance Imaging...people were scared of Nuclear even though it's exactly the same procedure (which is orders of magnitude safer than a CAT scan). People falsely assume that lawsuits or the phasing-out of certain ingredients constitute proof of "guilt" or "danger", when they do nothing of the sort.

We only use single-dose vaccines here because we are rich enough to throw money away. Overseas they still use thimerosal, because it's safe and cheap.

Originally posted by: looker001
I will never apologize for putting my kids safety first before everyone else.

Except that, metaphorically speaking, you are taking your kid out of the dangerous playground where they might fall off the slide and get hurt, and putting them on the nice safe railroad tracks which are flat and even. Great parenting, champ.:roll:

You are endangering your child, and while I won't hope that an innocent child suffers just to teach YOU a lesson, I hope that if they catch something and suffer permanent damage from it, they blame you for the rest of your life. Because it's YOUR fault, and you are being negligent as a parent.

I can live with that. As i said, I will do what I feel is in the best interest of my child period. With exception of 2 states, no problem will exist in enrolling children in to school.

But you're basing your decision to not vaccinate a child on a faulty premise. There's no causal link between vaccination and autism (which is what i'm assuming you're referring to). There are sideeffects to some vaccine like allergic reactions and if you believe that's too much risk in comparison to the risk of your children catching whatever virus it might be, then fine, fair enough. But please dont make your decision based on the flat out wrong belief that vaccination leads to autism

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Originally posted by: looker001

I can live with that. As i said, I will do what I feel is in the best interest of my child period. With exception of 2 states, no problem will exist in enrolling children in to school.

Ok, so just to be clear: you're willing to ignore a vast body of evidence that not only your child is more likely to contract a deadly, preventable disease, but also spread it to other children - just to avoid some extremely rare side effects and a dose of mercury that is less than you would get from eating fish?

Holy run on sentence batman, I know. But come on, REALLY?

You know those news stories that come out occasionally about some family of recent immigrants, where for whatever reason the cops come by and find out that they've been trying to treat their kid's strep throat with cow dung, or pickled rats, or something, and the kid gets some deadly infection as a result and dies?

You know how everyone sits around and talks about what a tragedy it is, how backwards these parents are, how much of a waste it is for this kid to die when modern medicine could have easily cured them in a day?

Yeah...now we know where these stories come from.

Oh, and by the way: He is not trying to avoid "extremely rare" side effects, he is trying to avoid nonexistent side effects. That's like not turning on your headlights at night because you think that government mind control robots will come after you if you do. And, I may add, has approximately an equal body of evidence to back it up.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: vhx
Depends on the vaccines, really. I'm sure most people are wary about old ass vaccines with mercury and those new HPV vaccines have caused deaths and tissue damage that leads to cancer (irony?).

I also remember reading a while ago how they found the whooping cough vaccine didn't work that well (80% of those vaccinated could still contract it) and those with measles vaccinations up to 20% end up having measles infections on the brain later in life. It's not just religion, it's about it not making any sense to get one with information like that.

Most people view flu shots as a joke. I had a few friends go for one, and all ended up getting the flu shortly after anyways and proceeded to bitch about it, and will never get one again. Doesn't seem like it's uncommon when googling either.

Anyways long story short, it's up to the parents or the individual. If they research that 0-10 people had Polio in their city in the last 5 years, it's up to them to gamble their loved ones on it. Honestly, I wouldn't want to guinea pig any of these new vaccines a lot of the public has been doing lately. As far as old vaccines go, meh, too late for me anyways to worry about it.

/2c

Best post so far. Too bad so many others are much more dense and/or narrow-minded.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: looker001

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Originally posted by: looker001

I can live with that. As i said, I will do what I feel is in the best interest of my child period. With exception of 2 states, no problem will exist in enrolling children in to school.

Ok, so just to be clear: you're willing to ignore a vast body of evidence that not only your child is more likely to contract a deadly, preventable disease, but also spread it to other children - just to avoid some extremely rare side effects and a dose of mercury that is less than you would get from eating fish?

Holy run on sentence batman, I know. But come on, REALLY?

Yes, I believe not vaccinating out weights the risk of vaccinating.

I don't believe it.

Pertussis

Complications: Major complications are most common among infants and young children and include hypoxia, apnea, pneumonia, seizures, encephalopathy, and malnutrition. Young children can die from pertussis and 13 children died in the United States in 2003. Most deaths occur among unvaccinated children or children too young to be vaccinated.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/DBMD...seinfo/pertussis_t.htm

CDC: Common Germ Sickens 5 Unvaccinated Children, Killing 1
Friday, January 23, 2009

ATLANTA ? Five Minnesota children have grown sick ? and one of them died ? from a germ that can cause meningitis, causing U.S. health officials to warn of the importance of a common childhood vaccine.

The Hib vaccine, which is given to babies, has succeeded in reducing U.S. cases of the bacterial illness to about only 20 a year in children younger than 5. But a cluster of five cases occurred in central Minnesota last year in young children. One child, who was 7 months old, died of meningitis in November.

Three of the five children ? including the dead child ? had not received any vaccine, due to a decision by their parents.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482145,00.html

Unvaccinated kids one reason for record measles year
Thu, Aug 21, 2008 (HealthDay News) ? Some parents' refusal to vaccinate children seems to be behind the highest rate of measles cases reported since 1996, federal officials said Thursday.

Between Jan. 1 and July 31 of this year, 131 measles cases have been reported in the United States, many of them among children whose parents have philosophical or religious objections to the vaccine, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

http://www.babycenter.com/204_..._20080826:2&pe=2UbqzMF

Unvaccinated children at center of outbreaks

Sunday, December 7, 2008

Public health officials say unvaccinated children are at the center of increasingly frequent outbreaks of illnesses that most doctors have studied in books but never seen.

That's how Kelly Lacek's youngest son, Matthew, came to be something of a celebrity patient at Pittsburgh's Children's Hospital two years ago, at age 3.

Few doctors there had ever seen a child infected by the bacteria Haemophilus influenzae type b. Before Hib vaccine for infants was introduced in 1990, the disease struck down 20,000 American children a year and killed 600.

Matthew "got so sick, so fast. He was hunched over and couldn't breathe," as the infection often causes severe swelling in the throat, Lacek recalled. "We took him to our local emergency room, and they were treating him like it was an asthma attack. But this one young doctor asked me if he'd been vaccinated. I said no, and within seconds he realized how life-threatening Matthew's condition really was. He saved his life."

Looking back, Lacek considers how she came to doubt vaccines. With her firstborn, Ashley, "I didn't think twice about shots, but then we started hearing about the autism concerns and it seemed like I was surrounded by friends with children getting diagnosed with those conditions."

Working as registrar at the private school her children attend in Monroeville, Pa., Lacek noticed religious exemptions from vaccination.

Her second child, Stephen, had gotten his first "baby shots," but when Lacek asked her pediatrician if she could prove to her there was no mercury in the vaccines, "she couldn't and I said, 'OK, we're not doing it.' "

Today, all the Lacek kids are fully vaccinated. Kelly Lacek is part of a national network called Parents of Kids with Infectious Diseases, urging families to immunize.

"I think making people aware of real-life stories like ours, letting them know that these killer diseases vaccines are meant to prevent are still out there, helps put the risks in a different light," Lacek said.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2...t-center-of-outbreaks/

Poliovirus infections in four unvaccinated children--Minnesota, August-October 2005.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms...four-unvaccinated.html

Diphtheria in the United States
At the turn of the century, in the United States, diphtheria was common, occurring primarily in children and was one of the leading causes of death in infants and children. In the l920's, when data were first gathered, there were approximately 150,000 cases and 13,000 deaths reported annually. After diphtheria immunization was introduced, the number of cases gradually fell to about 19,000 in 1945. When diphtheria immunization became widespread in the late 1940's, a more rapid decrease in the number of cases and deaths occurred.

From 1970 to 1979, an average of 196 cases per year were reported. Seventeen outbreaks of 15 or more cases occurred in the United States between 1959 and 1980, but there have been none since 1980. During 1980-1995, a total of 41 respiratory diphtheria cases were reported; of these, four (10%) were fatal, and all occurred in unvaccinated children.

http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/diphtheria.html


I am so glad my parents thought enough of my well being to get me vaccinated against all these terrible and sometimes deadly diseases.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Best post so far. Too bad so many others are much more dense and/or narrow-minded.

Really? Let's pick it apart and see who is being "dense".

Originally posted by: vhx
Depends on the vaccines, really. I'm sure most people are wary about old ass vaccines with mercury and those new HPV vaccines have caused deaths and tissue damage that leads to cancer (irony?).

Thiomersal is a non-issue, despite the presence of oh-so-scary mercury (seriously, fillings are more of a problem, and they're not a problem). You'll have to link the cancer bit, since what I'm finding claims that none of the deaths which have occurred in HPV-vaccinated people are linked to the HPV vaccine.

Originally posted by: vhx
I also remember reading a while ago how they found the whooping cough vaccine didn't work that well (80% of those vaccinated could still contract it) and those with measles vaccinations up to 20% end up having measles infections on the brain later in life. It's not just religion, it's about it not making any sense to get one with information like that.

Seat belts don't have a 100% success rate, but they DO improve your odds and do not increase your danger. Partial immunity lowers the incidence of the disease in the population (making it less likely that you'll be exposed in the first place), still has a reasonable chance of providing full immunity (you won't get it if you DO get exposed), and can sometimes lower the severity of the disease even if it doesn't provide full immunity. Makes sense to me.

Originally posted by: vhx
Most people view flu shots as a joke. I had a few friends go for one, and all ended up getting the flu shortly after anyways and proceeded to bitch about it, and will never get one again. Doesn't seem like it's uncommon when googling either.

It wasn't the flu. It may have been mild flu-like symptoms, or it may have been a cold which occurred shortly after getting the vaccine, but it wasn't the flu. Most people don't realize that "the flu" is actually MUCH more severe than a common cold, and so colds are often called "the flu" and used as evidence that the flu vaccine doesn't work. There was a thread about this not that long ago.
Point is, the flu vaccine DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE FLU, and often prevents it.

Originally posted by: vhx
Anyways long story short, it's up to the parents or the individual. If they research that 0-10 people had Polio in their city in the last 5 years, it's up to them to gamble their loved ones on it. Honestly, I wouldn't want to guinea pig any of these new vaccines a lot of the public has been doing lately. As far as old vaccines go, meh, too late for me anyways to worry about it.

/2c

All vaccines go through extensive testing, first on animals, and then on small-scale clinical trials, before they are cleared for use on the public. You are not being a "guinea pig" any more than when you fly in a new model of aircraft.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: vhx
I also remember reading a while ago how they found the whooping cough vaccine didn't work that well (80% of those vaccinated could still contract it) and those with measles vaccinations up to 20% end up having measles infections on the brain later in life. It's not just religion, it's about it not making any sense to get one with information like that.

Immunization can wear off over time, hence the reason to get tetanus booster shots every 10 years.

Most people view flu shots as a joke. I had a few friends go for one, and all ended up getting the flu shortly after anyways and proceeded to bitch about it, and will never get one again. Doesn't seem like it's uncommon when googling either.

Flu shots take about 3-4 weeks to become effective for immunization. They only cover 3 strains that are believed at the end of the previous season to be dominant the following year. And for the record, the flu shot cannot give you the flu. The flu shot is effective for providing immunization against the 3 strains that it vaccinates for.

Edit: and as jagec so kindly pointed out, the Flu is MUCH WORSE than a cold, which many people falsely attribute to being the flu or because they got a flu shot.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: Baked

Originally posted by: bdude
Darwin.

It's not darwin when the children didn't bring death upon themselves, idiot. :roll:

Sure it is. The stupid parents just killed their stupid offspring from living on and reproducing stupid.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
-snip-

:thumbsup:

Unfortunately you're not going to change his mind.

 

[vhx]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Best post so far. Too bad so many others are much more dense and/or narrow-minded.

Really? Let's pick it apart and see who is being "dense".

Pro! The personal attacks start already.

Originally posted by: vhx
Depends on the vaccines, really. I'm sure most people are wary about old ass vaccines with mercury and those new HPV vaccines have caused deaths and tissue damage that leads to cancer (irony?).

Thiomersal is a non-issue, despite the presence of oh-so-scary mercury (seriously, fillings are more of a problem, and they're not a problem). You'll have to link the cancer bit, since what I'm finding claims that none of the deaths which have occurred in HPV-vaccinated people are linked to the HPV vaccine.

Mercury bit is debatable, I know I don't want (known) toxic substances in my body in any quantity if I can help it. Might be fine for some people, but no point in it to me if there are alternatives. As far as fillings go, I don't see how mercury spewing fumes as it heats up is safe to humans, when it's not even safe for animals (http://iaomt.org/videos/).

As far as HPV deaths and negative reactions: http://letmegooglethatforyou.c...V+deaths+and+reactions

I'm not saying the majority of people will have issues, but it's a concern.

Originally posted by: vhx
I also remember reading a while ago how they found the whooping cough vaccine didn't work that well (80% of those vaccinated could still contract it) and those with measles vaccinations up to 20% end up having measles infections on the brain later in life. It's not just religion, it's about it not making any sense to get one with information like that.

Seat belts don't have a 100% success rate, but they DO improve your odds and do not increase your danger. Partial immunity lowers the incidence of the disease in the population (making it less likely that you'll be exposed in the first place), still has a reasonable chance of providing full immunity (you won't get it if you DO get exposed), and can sometimes lower the severity of the disease even if it doesn't provide full immunity. Makes sense to me.

[/quote]
I never said they never improved your odds, just stating that they lose their effectiveness over time and may cause complications. Complications that might of never arisen without the shot.

Originally posted by: vhx
Most people view flu shots as a joke. I had a few friends go for one, and all ended up getting the flu shortly after anyways and proceeded to bitch about it, and will never get one again. Doesn't seem like it's uncommon when googling either.

It wasn't the flu. It may have been mild flu-like symptoms, or it may have been a cold which occurred shortly after getting the vaccine, but it wasn't the flu. Most people don't realize that "the flu" is actually MUCH more severe than a common cold, and so colds are often called "the flu" and used as evidence that the flu vaccine doesn't work. There was a thread about this not that long ago.
Point is, the flu vaccine DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE FLU, and often prevents it.

It was the flu, as they went to the doctor after it didn't clear up for a week and were diagnosed with it. I never said it gave you the flu, just saying it didn't seem to help at all.

Someone mentioned that it takes 3 weeks for it to fully work. This may be true. However, IMO if you work around people a lot and it's spreading fast, 3 weeks is way too long and borderline pointless. Unless you work at home or just avoid people, you'll still have a big chance of catching it even after taking it.

Originally posted by: vhx
Anyways long story short, it's up to the parents or the individual. If they research that 0-10 people had Polio in their city in the last 5 years, it's up to them to gamble their loved ones on it. Honestly, I wouldn't want to guinea pig any of these new vaccines a lot of the public has been doing lately. As far as old vaccines go, meh, too late for me anyways to worry about it.

/2c

All vaccines go through extensive testing, first on animals, and then on small-scale clinical trials, before they are cleared for use on the public. You are not being a "guinea pig" any more than when you fly in a new model of aircraft.

Yes I know all drugs go through rigorous testing and a lot make it to market; doesn't mean they are safe. Numerous drugs get recalled a day.

If people are dying from reactions to [HPV], then it needs to be made light of and researched, not seen as some kind of urban myth; especially since some states (and countries) are wanting to mandate them.

 

[Codewiz]

Someone mentioned that it takes 3 weeks for it to fully work. This may be true. However, IMO if you work around people a lot and it's spreading fast, 3 weeks is way too long and borderline pointless. Unless you work at home or just avoid people, you'll still have a big chance of catching it even after taking it.

3 weeks is too long? No not really. That is why MOST people get the flu shot in October BEFORE it starts going around in full force.

Not to mention it protects you from the most common strains. There are many strains of flu every year. I also get a flu shot every year because it is free at my place of employment. Haven't gotten the flu since I graduated college because of it.

As for your some people might have issues with vaccines. Lets look at the numbers of people that would die from completely preventable disease compared to the amount of people that would be saved by a vaccine that has ZERO real side effects for 99.99999999% of the people on earth.

When my 8 week old got his first vaccinations, it listed the possible side effects. I read them and knew what possible reactions could occur. He had no issues just like 99.999999% of people.

Yes there are kids that have allergic reactions. It happens. Just like some kids have allergic reactions to all sorts of things.

BUT once again, we are talking about deadly diseases. If you want to argue against HPV so be it. But I am talking about diseases that kill or maim a child. Such as whooping cough, polio, measles. There is ZERO excuse to skip vaccinations for those diseases.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: vhx

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Best post so far. Too bad so many others are much more dense and/or narrow-minded.

Really? Let's pick it apart and see who is being "dense".

Pro! The personal attacks start already.

I agree, BrokenVisage should not have started throwing around personal attacks. However, this is the internet, I'm not going to cry about it.

Originally posted by: vhx

Originally posted by: vhx
Depends on the vaccines, really. I'm sure most people are wary about old ass vaccines with mercury and those new HPV vaccines have caused deaths and tissue damage that leads to cancer (irony?).

Thiomersal is a non-issue, despite the presence of oh-so-scary mercury (seriously, fillings are more of a problem, and they're not a problem). You'll have to link the cancer bit, since what I'm finding claims that none of the deaths which have occurred in HPV-vaccinated people are linked to the HPV vaccine.

Mercury bit is debatable, I know I don't want (known) toxic substances in my body in any quantity if I can help it. Might be fine for some people, but no point in it to me if there are alternatives. As far as fillings go, I don't see how mercury spewing fumes as it heats up is safe to humans, when it's not even safe for animals (http://iaomt.org/videos/).

So you don't eat any fish, don't drink out of any plastic containers, don't ride around in any cars that are under 10 years old, and don't breathe the air unless you're at the North Pole?
Worse news: Your body MAKES toxic substances.

And for the fillings, I don't know what to say other than that there is insanely overwhelming evidence that they are perfectly safe, and that the mercury in amalgam is about as dangerous as the hydrogen in water.
You would need to have ~500 fillings to reach the minimum level of mercury associated with the most subtle, pre-clinical effects in the most sensitive individuals
Even the Swedes think you're not being poisoned, you're just crazy
Whadayaknow, if you measure the wrong thing you get the wrong result

Originally posted by: vhx
As far as HPV deaths and negative reactions: http://letmegooglethatforyou.c...V+deaths+and+reactions

I'm not saying the majority of people will have issues, but it's a concern.

OK, clearly more work should be done to improve the safety of this vaccine. But:

27 U.S. deaths have been reported to VAERS as of August 31, 2008. Each of these deaths has been reviewed and there was not a common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. In cases where there was an autopsy, death certificate, or medical records, the cause of death was explained by factors other than the vaccine. Some reported causes of death received to date include illicit drug use, diabetes, viral illness, and heart failure.

Contrast this with the 3,870 women who will DIE from cervical cancer this year, and it's a no-brainer. Correlation != causation, I don't know why this keeps having to be said.

Originally posted by: vhx
I also remember reading a while ago how they found the whooping cough vaccine didn't work that well (80% of those vaccinated could still contract it) and those with measles vaccinations up to 20% end up having measles infections on the brain later in life. It's not just religion, it's about it not making any sense to get one with information like that.

Seat belts don't have a 100% success rate, but they DO improve your odds and do not increase your danger. Partial immunity lowers the incidence of the disease in the population (making it less likely that you'll be exposed in the first place), still has a reasonable chance of providing full immunity (you won't get it if you DO get exposed), and can sometimes lower the severity of the disease even if it doesn't provide full immunity. Makes sense to me.

I never said they never improved your odds, just stating that they lose their effectiveness over time and may cause complications. Complications that might of never arisen without the shot.

"Complications" which are orders of magnitude rarer AND often less serious than the disease which they prevent.

Originally posted by: vhx
Most people view flu shots as a joke. I had a few friends go for one, and all ended up getting the flu shortly after anyways and proceeded to bitch about it, and will never get one again. Doesn't seem like it's uncommon when googling either.

It wasn't the flu. It may have been mild flu-like symptoms, or it may have been a cold which occurred shortly after getting the vaccine, but it wasn't the flu. Most people don't realize that "the flu" is actually MUCH more severe than a common cold, and so colds are often called "the flu" and used as evidence that the flu vaccine doesn't work. There was a thread about this not that long ago.
Point is, the flu vaccine DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE FLU, and often prevents it.

It was the flu, as they went to the doctor after it didn't clear up for a week and were diagnosed with it. I never said it gave you the flu, just saying it didn't seem to help at all.

Someone mentioned that it takes 3 weeks for it to fully work. This may be true. However, IMO if you work around people a lot and it's spreading fast, 3 weeks is way too long and borderline pointless. Unless you work at home or just avoid people, you'll still have a big chance of catching it even after taking it.

So don't wait until halfway through the flu season to get the flu shot. Do you only put on your seatbelt right before a crash?

Originally posted by: vhx
Anyways long story short, it's up to the parents or the individual. If they research that 0-10 people had Polio in their city in the last 5 years, it's up to them to gamble their loved ones on it. Honestly, I wouldn't want to guinea pig any of these new vaccines a lot of the public has been doing lately. As far as old vaccines go, meh, too late for me anyways to worry about it.

/2c

All vaccines go through extensive testing, first on animals, and then on small-scale clinical trials, before they are cleared for use on the public. You are not being a "guinea pig" any more than when you fly in a new model of aircraft.

Yes I know all drugs go through rigorous testing and a lot make it to market; doesn't mean they are safe. Numerous drugs get recalled a day.

If people are dying from reactions to [HPV], then it needs to be made light of and researched, not seen as some kind of urban myth; especially since some states (and countries) are wanting to mandate them.

It is being brought to light and researched...that's why people do autopsies to determine the cause of death. Which the media ignores and pastes OMG SOMEONE DIED AFTER GETTING A SHOT EVERYBODY PANIC all over the airwaves.

If there is NO BASIS to the accusations, then the myths should dye.

As for "numerous drugs getting recalled a day", this you HAVE to prove.
I see a whole lot of foods, some "dietary supplements", a handful of surgical devices... the closest thing to a drug recall is a lot of oversized tablets, and a couple "drug safety information" bulletins most of which list very rare side effects.

Point is, you have a LOT more reason to be paranoid when you're buying your groceries than when you're filling your prescription.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: jagec
Contrast this with the 3,870 women who will DIE from cervical cancer this year, and it's a no-brainer. Correlation != causation, I don't know why this keeps having to be said.

You keep having to say it because science and mathmatical education is a joke.

Folks don't understand scientific theory and they don't understand statistics. It really sucks to be labelled a denier because you do understand them and folks just don't have the vocabulary to understand why they are wrong. Sigh.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: KevinCU
Jenny McCarthy is probably the main reason a lot of gullible people think vaccines cause autism.

I would like to vaccinate Jenny McCarthy.

Haha... give her a shot in the butt... :shocked:

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: jagec
Contrast this with the 3,870 women who will DIE from cervical cancer this year, and it's a no-brainer. Correlation != causation, I don't know why this keeps having to be said.

You keep having to say it because science and mathmatical education is a joke.

Folks don't understand scientific theory and they don't understand statistics. It really sucks to be labelled a denier because you do understand them and folks just don't have the vocabulary to understand why they are wrong. Sigh.

So much ownage of the conspiracy theory types in this thread. Great job people!

 

[BornStarlet]

Did anyone READ the case reports in the link about the HPV vaccine?? I too have heard the skepticism about it so I followed the link and read the cases. Some were extremely sketchy and didn't give you enough information, but the ones that did made it quite obvious the vaccine was not at fault. For example- one girl was sick for 14 days before she got the vaccine, got the vaccine, and died 6 days later.... are we really supposed to ignore the fact that she was sick for 2 WEEKS? And the girl that allegedly died of anaphylaxis... have you ever heard of someone dying 3 days after being stung by a bee?? Come on people...

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: BornStarlet
Did anyone READ the case reports in the link about the HPV vaccine?? I too have heard the skepticism about it so I followed the link and read the cases. Some were extremely sketchy and didn't give you enough information, but the ones that did made it quite obvious the vaccine was not at fault. For example- one girl was sick for 14 days before she got the vaccine, got the vaccine, and died 6 days later.... are we really supposed to ignore the fact that she was sick for 2 WEEKS? And the girl that allegedly died of anaphylaxis... have you ever heard of someone dying 3 days after being stung by a bee?? Come on people...

Reading is for loosers.... I can believe whatever I feel like and trash science because I don't believe it. </stupid-reasons-anti-vaccine-people>

 

[Vette73]

UPDATE:

Just saw this on CNN

"Special court rules against compensation in three cases where parents contended vaccines caused autism in their children."

 

[Vette73]

UPDTAE to update:
Vaccine didn't cause autism, court rules

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Ownage

Nice one Mosh.

I had this same argument with a HS classmate of mine on FB. He said he saw a few cases of Measles in kids that had the MMR. I said that it wasn't 100% effective 100% of the time, to ask for that is impossible.

Then, he dragged out the anecdotes. One where a kid had an alergic reaction and was essentially comatose for 3 days right after a shot. Naturally the dr said it was due to harmful substances in the shot. It could have been triggered by 100 different things.

Now you're seen a resurgence of different illnesses in England because the hippy-freaks there.

Then there was the recent evidence that the guy who kicked off this whole Autism stupidity actually altered his results and changed his data. Wow, big surprise.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
UPDTAE to update:
Vaccine didn't cause autism, court rules

Update to your update's update:

Powers' litigation steering committee is representing thousands of families that fall into three categories: those who claim MMR vaccines and thimerosal-containing vaccines can combine to cause autism; those who claim thimerosal-containing vaccines alone can cause autism; and those who claim MMR vaccines, without any link to thimerosal, can cause autism.

Thursday's rulings will only affect the families that fall under the first category, Powers said.

Thus, it's not over yet.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
UPDTAE to update:
Vaccine didn't cause autism, court rules

Update to your update's update:

Powers' litigation steering committee is representing thousands of families that fall into three categories: those who claim MMR vaccines and thimerosal-containing vaccines can combine to cause autism; those who claim thimerosal-containing vaccines alone can cause autism; and those who claim MMR vaccines, without any link to thimerosal, can cause autism.

Thursday's rulings will only affect the families that fall under the first category, Powers said.

Thus, it's not over yet.

No but I bet a lot of lawyers that saw a easy Gov check will drop out now. If this case was middle of the road or the judge said yea there seems to be some proof that it may... then I think more would stay in.