More Llano leaks (A8 APU extensively benchmarked)

[Gigantopithecus]

I thought mobile Llano looked interesting until I saw the speeds. The highest end part is 1.9 Ghz with 2.6 Ghz Turbo? Even at Quad Core, that's not going to cut it. I'm skeptical of Llano's appeal outside of gamers, who would be better off with Sandy and a discrete anyway.

Why would I be interested in a 1.6GHz E2140 Pentium Dual Core when a 3.2GHz Pentium D 940 has twice the clockspeed?

...there's more to performance than GHz.

 

[nonameo]

Why would I be interested in a 1.6GHz E2140 Pentium Dual Core when a 3.2GHz Pentium D 940 has twice the clockspeed?

...there's more to performance than GHz.

Yes but, we know that it will be comparable to other stars CPUs, so we have a general idea of what a 1.9 llano will be like.

 

[Bearach]

LOL Another AMD marketing video. First off in case you didn't notice the video is "Simulated", those aren't "real" systems as you can tell the AMD system is just a mirrored image of the Intel system (numpad, enter key on wrong side of keyboard, etc). Secondly at the end of the video where they briefly mention the test systems you can see they are testing a "Retail Intel System" vs an "AMD Press Sample System". If the Intel retail system was an HP like the simulated video would suggest you can be sure its loaded with bloatware that's obviously gonna never let the system idle compared to the AMD System that's gonna be bloat free. To further try and skew the results to AMD's favour the AMD system was also put on "Fixed Power-Saving Low Power Mode" and they specifically specified that "Discrete Graphics" was turned off. It was never mentioned what the Intel system had but since its a "retail" system it could potentially have a discreet graphics onboard that was never turned off.

If AMD wanted any credibility with there "benchmarks" they should really do it with settings people are "actually" gonna get when they buy a system and not some tweaked system for whatever benchmark they are currently doing. You know when it comes time to put out CPU/GPU benchmarks they are not gonna be using a system with "Fixed Power-Saving Low Power Mode"

The video isn't perfect and probably can't be totally trusted, especially coming from AMD themselves, just like if it was coming from Intel themselves. Its their job to make it look better and promote their key areas of superiority. Still unless you know, you can only take it with a pinch of salt and not make assumptions.

 

[Nemesis 1]

He has the mirrored image . That in it self says this was pure marketing . But lets just wait a couple of days its here now lets see real benchmarks like the SB benchmarks were the cpu is the main thing benched . Thats what AT did with SB . You take llano put the same GPU on it like AT did for SB and your little APU won't look so good . If AT does the CPU bench marks differantly than the The SB benchmarks it will smell badly .

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Yes but, we know that it will be comparable to other stars CPUs, so we have a general idea of what a 1.9 llano will be like.

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with your desktop PC such that a quad core 1.9GHz base/2.6GHz turbo Stars-like IPC CPU doesn't cut it?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Nonameo should grab some of his replies from the BD threads , Tell me something whats 8 cores going to do for ya ?

This is a cpu just like SB is a cpu lets let the cpu benchmarks speak for themselves . All of the sudden a cpu is about the IGP . NOT! Gamers will still buy gpus and the average person will still by Intel just because its IGP is plenty good enough . You can't say in topic about 1 cpu than in another go completely the other way . Pretty transparent you are. I will run my SB on the IGP until the 28nm NV gpu is released.

 

[nonameo]

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with your desktop PC such that a quad core 1.9GHz base/2.6GHz turbo Stars-like IPC CPU doesn't cut it?

It's not me. jpiniero mentioned that he was disappointed with the clockspeeds. You commented that you can't just go by clockspeeds. I said that since we know how stars performs, we can expect llano to not be too far off, clock for clock. I'm humming along just fine on an x1300 pro and e4500. I don't need even the power of llano, I really don't disagree with you. However, jpiniero probably uses his PC for different things from me. He knows how stars performs and he sees the clockspeeds. and his reaction is disappointment.

That said, I think llano is going to be awesome for laptops. hopefully it will bring in some nice $$$ for AMD.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

DERP. Quoted the wrong person.

Since offloading most of my research to my lab's computers, I'll likely be downgrading from an i5-2500K to one of these Llanos. Movies, music, and office productivity doesn't require more than Llano offers.

 

[iCyborg]

This is a cpu just like SB is a cpu lets let the cpu benchmarks speak for themselves . All of the sudden a cpu is about the IGP . NOT! Gamers will still buy gpus and the average person will still by Intel just because its IGP is plenty good enough .

Why does an average person need a SB class CPU, pretty much the fastest right now, but a subpar IGP is ok?

 

[iCyborg]

I thought mobile Llano looked interesting until I saw the speeds. The highest end part is 1.9 Ghz with 2.6 Ghz Turbo? Even at Quad Core, that's not going to cut it. I'm skeptical of Llano's appeal outside of gamers, who would be better off with Sandy and a discrete anyway.

The only quad core mobile SB in laptops <$1000 is 2630QM which runs at 2.0 GHz. Is that really so much better?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Are you sure there isn't a 55watt model The 2core 2520 will destroy the 4 core llano in cpu work. Lets try to keep it real . Intel has lots of good Fast mobile for under a 1000. the metric here isn't cost here but performance even the cheaper 2 cores SB will beat LLano in almost all benchmarks other than 3D. Performane price is the metric Intel 2 core SB will give LLano all it can handle .


Mobile Sandy Bridge CPU Comparison
Base Frequency L3 Cache Cores / Threads Max Single Core Turbo Memory Support Intel Graphics EUs Intel HD Graphics Frequency / Max Turbo TDP
Core i7 2920XM 2.5GHz 8MB 4 / 8 3.5GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 55W
Core i7 2820QM 2.3GHz 8MB 4 / 8 3.4GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 45W
Core i7 2720QM 2.2GHz 6MB 4 / 8 3.3GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 45W
Core i7 2620M 2.7GHz 4MB 2 / 4 3.4GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 35W
Core i5 2540M 2.6GHz 3MB 2 / 4 3.3GHz DDR3-1333 12 650 / 1150MHz 35W
Core i5 2520M 2.5GHz 3MB 2 / 4 3.2GHz DDR3-1333 12 650 / 1150MHz 35W

 

[Arkadrel]

Are you sure there isn't a 55watt model The 2core 2520 will destroy the 4 core llano in cpu work. Lets try to keep it real . Intel has lots of good Fast mobile for under a 1000. the metric here isn't cost here but performance even the cheaper 2 cores SB will beat LLano in almost all benchmarks other than 3D. Performane price is the metric Intel 2 core SB will give LLano all it can handle .


Mobile Sandy Bridge CPU Comparison
Base Frequency L3 Cache Cores / Threads Max Single Core Turbo Memory Support Intel Graphics EUs Intel HD Graphics Frequency / Max Turbo TDP
Core i7 2920XM 2.5GHz 8MB 4 / 8 3.5GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 55W
Core i7 2820QM 2.3GHz 8MB 4 / 8 3.4GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 45W
Core i7 2720QM 2.2GHz 6MB 4 / 8 3.3GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 45W
Core i7 2620M 2.7GHz 4MB 2 / 4 3.4GHz DDR3-1600 12 650 / 1300MHz 35W
Core i5 2540M 2.6GHz 3MB 2 / 4 3.3GHz DDR3-1333 12 650 / 1150MHz 35W
Core i5 2520M 2.5GHz 3MB 2 / 4 3.2GHz DDR3-1333 12 650 / 1150MHz 35W

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52237
Core i7 2920XM = Recommended Channel Price $1096.00
Core i7 2820QM = Recommended Channel Price $568.00
Core i7 2720QM = Recommended Channel Price $378.00
Core i7 2620M = Recommended Channel Price $346.00
Core i5 2540M = Recommended Channel Price $266.00
..
..
.

.





You forget to mention that the price range on the Intel counterparts is probably gonna be alot higher.

Its like compaireing a "Radeon 5750" to "Geforece 580" and saying the 580 is faster.


I think AMD will sell a 4 core CPU for the same price as Intel does a 2 core CPU.
And in applications that make use of 4 threads... you might see the Llano come out on top in performance/price even in cpu tasks.



Also the A8-38xx something Llano OCed was doing 6100+ scores in 3Dmark Vantage.
Even a 2600k IGP wont get half of that.... So the Llano is def. gonna have the advantage in the 3D department, and anything that ll be OpenCL accelerated.

 

[daveybrat]

Not only is Intel's IGP inferior to AMD's, but whose drivers would you rather have in a laptop powering your games?

Sorry but in my experience, Intel's video drivers are nowhere near as good as AMD's are in games.

We sell a lot of AMD based Tri-core and Quad-core systems at my work and i can really see Llano being a hot seller for those super budget gamers that don't want to spend much, but need a newer machine to play WoW and other lower-end games.

The current crop of onboard video by Nvidia, Intel, and AMD are really just not for gaming at all.

 

[Blitzvogel]

Does anyone have any idea how much power the GPU core in Sandy Bridge consumes? 32 nm or not, in order to achieve it's insane clock speed, it probably consumes more power for performance than any Nvidia or AMD part. Intel's only real way to compete is to shoot clock speed up in order to mitigate the lack of hardware, much like the Netburst days.

 

[drizek]

Does anyone have any idea how much power the GPU core in Sandy Bridge consumes? 32 nm or not, in order to achieve it's insane clock speed, it probably consumes more power for performance than any Nvidia or AMD part. Intel's only real way to compete is to shoot clock speed up in order to mitigate the lack of hardware, much like the Netburst days.

I remember arandales igp used about 10w.

 

[jpiniero]

Why does an average person need a SB class CPU, pretty much the fastest right now, but a subpar IGP is ok?

What are you going to use the IGP for, besides games? The only thing I can come up with is video decode, and even the HD 3000 is capable of doing that. OpenCL is interesting, but I don't think you can account for it at this point.

One thought - nVidia GPUs is not going to be too popular on Llano if the crossfire thing works at all.

 

[MangoX]

Sorry but in my experience, Intel's video drivers are nowhere near as good as AMD's are in games.

I agree with this. While Intel's IGPs are faster than ever, their drivers still leave a lot to be desired. And they don't offer the same image quality compared to either AMD or Nvidia.

 

[nonameo]

One thought - nVidia GPUs is not going to be too popular on Llano if the crossfire thing works at all.

perhaps lucid has a response

 

[Nemesis 1]

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52237
Core i7 2920XM = Recommended Channel Price $1096.00
Core i7 2820QM = Recommended Channel Price $568.00
Core i7 2720QM = Recommended Channel Price $378.00
Core i7 2620M = Recommended Channel Price $346.00
Core i5 2540M = Recommended Channel Price $266.00
..
..
.

.





You forget to mention that the price range on the Intel counterparts is probably gonna be alot higher.

Its like compaireing a "Radeon 5750" to "Geforece 580" and saying the 580 is faster.


I think AMD will sell a 4 core CPU for the same price as Intel does a 2 core CPU.
And in applications that make use of 4 threads... you might see the Llano come out on top in performance/price even in cpu tasks.



Also the A8-38xx something Llano OCed was doing 6100+ scores in 3Dmark Vantage.
Even a 2600k IGP wont get half of that.... So the Llano is def. gonna have the advantage in the 3D department, and anything that ll be OpenCL accelerated.

Well lets see the real reviews I don't call a couple of 3D benchmarks in the cpu performance area as being anything special . Hay if AMD wants to sell 4 core APUs for less than a SB 2 core . I hope they knock themselves out with that one . Intel infact doesn't have to cut 4 core SB at all But if they cut the 2core HT model under AMDs llano it would get more than interesting real fast.

Anyone have Mobil AMD llano price sheet . We seem to be moving around here to fit perspectives . Intel SB desktops are cheap comparred to the mobile line.

 

[iCyborg]

What are you going to use the IGP for, besides games? The only thing I can come up with is video decode, and even the HD 3000 is capable of doing that. OpenCL is interesting, but I don't think you can account for it at this point.

Playing 24p movies (23.976 to be correct) maybe
That's beside the point though. I'm using the same argument, just on the CPU side: what does an average person do to need SB because Llano won't cut it? You could also make the same point with SB vs Lynnfield/Arrandale...

 

[Nemesis 1]

perhaps lucid has a response

Ya I kinda want to see how that works out being the APU and discrete run at way differant speeds and differant memory . If AMD can do it thats great , If not no big deal as I don't expect it to work that well .

 

[Nemesis 1]

What are you going to use the IGP for, besides games? The only thing I can come up with is video decode, and even the HD 3000 is capable of doing that. OpenCL is interesting, but I don't think you can account for it at this point.

One thought - nVidia GPUs is not going to be too popular on Llano if the crossfire thing works at all.

Actually When 28nm is released I am going to buy NV gpu . I bought a 580 . First NV gpu in 6,7 years for me. Alot of SB buyers will use NV . Have you seen the differance in performance On highend gpus on SB comparred to all other cpus . SB kicks butt. BY alot comparred to using with a stars like CPU. Your assuming Xfire will work great on APU cross fired. Just a couple of days left than we can talk facts.

 

[hans007]

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with your desktop PC such that a quad core 1.9GHz base/2.6GHz turbo Stars-like IPC CPU doesn't cut it?

its still plenty fast. people buy mobile phenom II x4s n900 series chips right now and they are all 2.0 ghz or less with no turbo. and those are athlon ii x4 cores (no L3 cache).


its still an improvement , a huge one over what they have now, and by the time it is deemed slow, trinity shoudl be out.

 

[nonameo]

Ya I kinda want to see how that works out being the APU and discrete run at way differant speeds and differant memory . If AMD can do it thats great , If not no big deal as I don't expect it to work that well .

its been done already
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2398

AFAIK it works fine. I wouldn't expect it to be any different on llano.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Sorry nonameo But I didn't see any benchmarks performed by AT in that Link . I do remember the Bobcat type preview AT did a preview review . We all know how that turned out The AMD guys were saying even Bobcat APU beats SB . LOL not even close.