rommelrommel
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2002
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Point is very few PC lose their lives, despite not having firearms. Rommelrommel was saying it work s til it doesn't.
Seemed like a long list with a lot of avoidable deaths.
Point is very few PC lose their lives, despite not having firearms. Rommelrommel was saying it work s til it doesn't.
Most of which not related to not having guns. That list is for the last 117 years. Excludes terrorist attack and WWIISeemed like a long list with a lot of avoidable deaths.
I don't get why you guys don't have indepedent police oversight that investigate police shootings.
Well. I am merely a tourist. As an australian though it is incomprehensible that justine damond was shot by the cops. A cop shot an unarmed woman through the closed door of a police car. Who had no criminal record, no criminal intent and was of exemplary character. How does that happen? and after it did happen why is the perpetrator protected? You guys have a serious problem.
That works great until it doesn't.
Not sure what point you are making. One thing that occurs to me is just how many pages it would take to list every US cop killed in the line of duty. The other thing is that list just reinforces my dislike of cars (huge numbers of those deaths involved motorised vehicles, rather than guns).
I don't get why you guys don't have indepedent police oversight that investigate police shootings.
Two words: Police Unions
Trust me brother, most of us are just as pissed off about that, and much more, as yall are. That sort of shit happens way too often for it to simply be an "outlier" and yes, the police, their unions, and often even the politicians are complicit in no justice ever being served.
I don't get why you guys don't have indepedent police oversight that investigate police shootings.
I would like to see that. We do have a legal system and internal affairs but that is only for some situations.
I found this line rather enlightening.
At least they admit it now but it's a sad day when law enforcement need training to see the individuals they are protecting and serving as people...
I made a mistake once while working in the ER. I woke up a guy presenting with psychosis to interview him but didn't look deep enough to realize he was there for methamphetamine intoxication and was sleeping because he received a cocktail of medications to control his behavior. He looked at me with a stare that gave no indication he recognized that I was a person talking to him, shot out of bed, and began following me around the ward flailing his arms for about 10 paces before being overcome with drowsiness and crawling back in bed. I am not a person who is a fan of guns. If I had one on me and he persisted with this behavior, I would have shot him no question.
I do not know what this cop faced, and I think it was an errant decision to try to force a belligerent person from inside a vehicle when they are safe, particularly without waiting for backup to arrive. But keep in mind he hit the person with a stun gun which only pissed him off and led to tackling the officer.
It's a bad decision because it turns the situation confrontational for no real reason but if the cop tasered the guy and then the guy attacked him that's much more of a justification (I should read the article but hey this is the internet). Of course it's easy for me sitting behind my computer screen to make these calls.
It's more the differences in the way the US cops are trained that I see as problematic. There is a time and a place for lethal force but it's a matter of appropriate use of force within a given context and that comes down to type of training and good judgement.
This forum (including myself) needs training on seeing individuals we are conversing with as people.
1. It's a great thing that you recognize that.
2. At least said conversing doesn't end up with people shot and killed.
Training and weapons play a role, for sure. But either the media has sensationalized the problem or it is getting much worse, and I don't think the presence of weapons or type of LEO training has changed over time in the US. It is sad that an everyday citizen not breaking the law sees a cop and becomes vigilant for confrontation rather than reassured by their presence. And in turn the cops are anticipating greatly the need to defend themselves in ordinary situations. I am not trying to argue a chicken-egg scenario. Merely stating that the divisions are growing stronger and reinforcing the likelihood of further deadly confrontations.
If a law officer's mission is to protect and serve, then this does not match the perception of the public. Even those supportive of law enforcement seem to want them to act even more inhumanely authoritarian and aggressive to bad-guys outside the law (see: Sheriff Arpaio and the like).
Perhaps there is opportunity for the community to value police presence and for police to represent the values they claim. If we can't get to a place where communities are at least hopeful that police will act in their interest, then I don't see anything improving.
I see you are spouting your typical BS.
I would certainly hope it has. Although if it hasn't that would explain a lot. Police training should constantly evolve. For example if police in the US are using lethal force as part of an aggressive and militaristic policing culture. Their training should be changed too reign that in. Because they are police officers and not the military it's a very important distinction for a liberal democracy.
This is eminently fair, but I would defer to someone with LEO experience as to how it has evolved. Although, would you not expect the training to have moved in the direction of greater nuance and less automatic authoritarianism? If so, it seems to either be inadequate or counterproductive.
Mental health and drug problem, not a police problem.
If he had not attacked the police officer the end results would have probably been quite different.
I can see you never actually took a probability class.
You have no idea what would have happened, you're just assuming and you've got no evidence or logic to back it up. Plenty of guys are shot by police who werent attacking them.
I see you are spouting your typical BS.
You mean logic and facts?
You think logic and facts are BS?
Wow.
Right, much better a bunch of civilians who don't deserve to get dead, you know, get dead with virtually no accountability for the people making said civilians dead.