More proof the police will shoot anybody - all recent shootings

[Puffnstuff]

Things are heating up at GA Tech.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-protest-slain-student/index.html

 

[Starbuck1975]

Things are heating up at GA Tech.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-protest-slain-student/index.html

They shouldn't be.

Mentally ill student with a history of depression and an attempted suicide calls police and reports himself as a suspicious person with knife and possibly gun.

Police respond assuming they will meet an armed person.

Police encounter said person, who is acting erratically. If anything, were the police to profile, the victim in this case actually fits the profile of a campus shooter.

Seems like suicide by police to me.

 

[Thebobo]

• Police are trained that they could die at any second, from flick of a wrist to pull a gun or knife on them. Their training involves videos of when such events have occurred in the past. It is beat into their heads that death is coming for them.
• 21 foot rule.
• If they lose control of a physical altercation, they are trained that their gun is at risk. Makes them treat any contact as a life or death struggle. They are required to gain control, to use any threat or use of force to gain control.
• They are trained to pursue if someone flees, again, as part of maintaining control but in that case to protect third parties. To prevent their suspect from interacting with or harming anyone else.

Seems to be working so well at killing the people they swore to protect. Maybe it's time for some new training that doesn't involve being a mindless grunt.

 

[child of wonder]

These brain dead retards are seriously protesting the shooting of Schultz and claiming more needs to be done to "protect LGBTQ?"

What the actual fuck is wrong with these people? This was obviously suicide by cop and has NOTHING to do with the person's gender identity or sexual orientation.

 

[realibrad]

This is what we have. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Investigations_Unit

That is not something I would mind, so long as it would not be accountable to the same higher-ups that the police report to. In theory, this is something that the FBI could easily do.

 

[sdifox]

That is not something I would mind, so long as it would not be accountable to the same higher-ups that the police report to. In theory, this is something that the FBI could easily do.

FBI agents are federal cops, having cops investigate other cops is just not viable.

SIU reports to AG, but it is fully independent.

 

[Thebobo]

These brain dead retards are seriously protesting the shooting of Schultz and claiming more needs to be done to "protect LGBTQ?"

What the actual fuck is wrong with these people? This was obviously suicide by cop and has NOTHING to do with the person's gender identity or sexual orientation.

Do cops when they confront folks on a bridge trying to commit suicide oblige them and push them over? We need to change our culture so that the gun is not the solution to every difficult situation. Maybe get over ourselves and our arrogance and learn a little from other countries who don't have this problem.

 

[realibrad]

FBI agents are federal cops, having cops investigate other cops is just not viable.

SIU reports to AG, but it is fully independent.

That does not make sense. FBI are federal agents, but they are for investigations. Cops also have investigators so if you are saying the FBI agents are cops, then all investigators are cops even the SIU. Further, here in the US the AG is the top of law enforcement so again it would be a "cop" by definition.

FBI agents are not really cops.

 

[sdifox]

That does not make sense. FBI are federal agents, but they are for investigations. Cops also have investigators so if you are saying the FBI agents are cops, then all investigators are cops even the SIU. Further, here in the US the AG is the top of law enforcement so again it would be a "cop" by definition.

FBI agents are not really cops.

They enforce federal laws, how are they not cops? You have local, state and federal police officers. We have the same.

 

[child of wonder]

Do cops when they confront folks on a bridge trying to commit suicide oblige them and push them over? We need to change our culture so that the gun is not the solution to every difficult situation. Maybe get over ourselves and our arrogance and learn a little from other countries who don't have this problem.

Do people trying to commit suicide on a bridge attempt to grab the cops and then jump?

False equivalency much?

 

[realibrad]

They enforce federal laws, how are they not cops? You have local, state and federal police officers. We have the same.

Then by that standard, your AG also is a cop no?

 

[sdifox]

Then by that standard, your AG also is a cop no?

AG generally speaking do not go out and arrest people. But they tend to be known as the jurisdiction's top cop, whatever the jurisdiction is.

 

[realibrad]

AG generally speaking do not go out and arrest people. But they tend to be known as the jurisdiction's top cop, whatever the jurisdiction is.

Your AG wears many hats, but by your definition, the AG is a cop. So...?

 

[sdifox]

Your AG wears many hats, but by your definition, the AG is a cop. So...?

Sigh, SIU has to report to someone. They are by definition not police officers. But they do report to AG in an arms length manner.

 

[realibrad]

Sigh, SIU has to report to someone. They are by definition not police officers. But they do report to AG in an arms length manner.

So by definition the FBI is not police. The investigate and arrest, but so does the SIU from what I can tell. If your worry is cops investigating cops then it appears you have some work to do at home.

 

[sdifox]

So by definition the FBI is not police. The investigate and arrest, but so does the SIU from what I can tell. If your worry is cops investigating cops then it appears you have some work to do at home.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[realibrad]

Whatever floats your boat.

I'm just confused as to why you think the FBI could not do what we are talking about. You label them cops, but then your own group that you advocate for would also be cops. So why would it be a problem for the FBI and not for your group?

 

[Genx87]

Whatever happened to the cop that shot the unarmed australian woman justine damond? She called the cops to report a potential crime and when they arrived one of them shot her through the closed door of the police car. Did the cop get prosecuted for that? If that happened in australia he would be strung up by his balls.

I remember the cops defending him too. Is it standard operating procedure for cops in the US to execute unarmed civilians?

The prosecutor said he will take to the end of the year to think about bringing charges. A cop was hit by a car while picking up debris in Minneapolis a couple weeks ago. Took 3 days to charge the driver with vehicular manslaughter. Then a week of memorials on TV. Double standard galore when it comes to the state going after the state.

btw if the cop who shot the woman is actually brought up on charges. I expect there to be no convictions.

 

[Genx87]

Like a judge dredd kind of thing? It just seems odd that a cop can shoot an unarmed woman through a car door and then have the full support of the police department as if he hasn't done anything wrong. I have read that she had a phone in her hand. I wonder....and this is just a theory I am working on... if the ready availability of high powered firearms in the US forces the police to just assume everyone is armed. So suddenly a phone becomes a gun.

And the woman dressed in her pajamas in a well lit laneway in an affluent neighbourhood is a mortal danger. Or maybe the guy was just poorly trained and for the cops in the US their go to option is lethal force. Or maybe the phone rang the cop got startled and had no choice but to open fire. So many excuses....

It is a fucked up situation with the cops in our country. They treat it like they are going to war. And if a cop kills somebody they have to defend their brother in arms at all cost. Worse is a large part of our population does the same thing.

 

[sdifox]

I'm just confused as to why you think the FBI could not do what we are talking about. You label them cops, but then your own group that you advocate for would also be cops. So why would it be a problem for the FBI and not for your group?

No the SIU is not composed of cops. They investigate all instances where someone is hurt during an interaction with the police. This includes the municipal police and the provincial police. They report to AG as an independent organization. AG has no say in SIU matters.

FBI is involved when there are federal level crimes, controlled substance or when a crime crosses state borders. They are the biggest law enforcement agency around, I don't understand why you insist they are not cops.

If I kidnap a kid in Tennessee, the local police will call state police and fed as a heads up. Once I get out of county border it becomes state's jurisdiction. If I cross into another state it becomes a FBI issue.


As to why FBI is ill suited for the job, well it is about optics. Having cops investigate other cops just invites speculation. Especially when we have seen coverups before.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ves-unanswered-questions-mayor-tory-says.html

 

[Genx87]

Pretty much every other civilised country doesn't do this and they don't have a problem with lots of police officers being killed, they don't have a problem with lots of members of the public being shot by police either.

I bring this up to the cop worshippers around here. They have a mental convulsion trying to defend why 1100 a year are killed in this country by cops. And thousands more are shot when a country like Germany can have under 100 total police shootings for the entire year. Chicago probably has that many police involved shootings in a month or less.

 

[sdifox]

I bring this up to the cop worshippers around here. They have a mental convulsion trying to defend why 1100 a year are killed in this country by cops. And thousands more are shot when a country like Germany can have under 100 total police shootings for the entire year. Chicago probably has that many police involved shootings in a month or less.

There is probably more guns in Chicago than all of Germany :awe:

 

[Thebobo]

Do people trying to commit suicide on a bridge attempt to grab the cops and then jump?

False equivalency much?

Goto 10

 

[Darwin333]

They shouldn't be.

Mentally ill student with a history of depression and an attempted suicide calls police and reports himself as a suspicious person with knife and possibly gun.

Police respond assuming they will meet an armed person.

Police encounter said person, who is acting erratically. If anything, were the police to profile, the victim in this case actually fits the profile of a campus shooter.

Seems like suicide by police to me.

WTF are you talking about? The cop talked to the victim and then decided to take him to a shelter in his police cruiser. Things only got heated when the victim said he wanted to go somewhere else and refused to get out of the cops car. At that point the cop called for backup but instead of waiting for said backup to arrive he decided to John Wayne it and escalated the situation all by himself with a person he knew was mentally ill.

Up until the point that the cop escalated the situation he just had a guy who refused to get out of his car but was otherwise calm and non-threatening. How the fuck do you jump to suicide by cop from those circumstances? Don't you think he would have did the entire suicide by cop thing during the initial encounter?

 

[interchange]

Do cops when they confront folks on a bridge trying to commit suicide oblige them and push them over? We need to change our culture so that the gun is not the solution to every difficult situation. Maybe get over ourselves and our arrogance and learn a little from other countries who don't have this problem.

It is hard to learn from completed suicides. You cannot go back and interview someone and attempt to draw conclusions about their actions after they have died. But I have spent a lot of time talking to people who have attempted suicide. Generally, there are those who have a very high degree of ambivalence about actually dying and use attempts as a means to propel some change. And there are people who are certain that the world is better off without them -- not simply that they are suffering but clearly that their existence is harmful to others. This is a commonality in completed suicides (unless someone perceives their actions to be far less lethal than reality dictates). Sometimes, I believe the cohesion of someone's suicidal identity is so shaky that they must take action to prove the harm of their existence (e.g. mass murder-suicide) in order to actually complete the task. Sometimes, I believe someone's suicidal identity is one that they are so weak and powerless that they cannot complete the task themselves, and thus they will go to extremes to induce another to perform the action.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is nothing an officer could have done in the moment to prevent escalation to the point of death. But it doesn't mean it wouldn't be right to try. Or especially to learn from cultures where the probability of lethal police interactions is less. Though I suspect the learning will lead to insights less at an individual level and more at a systemic and cultural one.