More proof the police will shoot anybody - all recent shootings

[Darwin333]

Do people trying to commit suicide on a bridge attempt to grab the cops and then jump?

False equivalency much?

Sorry bud but no matter how you spin it tackling someone onto the ground they are standing on is, especially a person who is supposedly trained to defend themselves from such things, is not deadly force. Any man that thinks that they are in such grave danger that they must shoot someone simply because that person tackled them is a pussy and should have a desk job so the biggest threat they face is a paper cut. Granted they might see the paper cut as deadly force too but at least it will just be paper that they shoot.

BTW, this was NOT suicide by cop. Nothing about this says suicide by cop in any way, shape, or form. The guy wasn't even agitated until the cop tazed him, he was "passively resisting" by refusing to get out of the cops car because he wanted to go somewhere else. If the cop had waited for the backup that he called, considering there was no immediate danger and he was knowingly dealing with a mentally ill person, this guy wouldn't be dead.

 

[interchange]

BTW, this was NOT suicide by cop. Nothing about this says suicide by cop in any way, shape, or form. The guy wasn't even agitated until the cop tazed him, he was "passively resisting" by refusing to get out of the cops car because he wanted to go somewhere else. If the cop had waited for the backup that he called, considering there was no immediate danger and he was knowingly dealing with a mentally ill person, this guy wouldn't be dead.

I think there is a difficulty here in that the title says "GA Tech shooting" but provides a link to a totally different incident. In the GT shooting, the student had a knife and continuously approached the officers, refusing to obey repeated instructions to put down the knife. They found suicide notes in the student's dorm room.

In the referenced article, I don't see anything suggesting suicidal intent.

Sorry bud but no matter how you spin it tackling someone onto the ground they are standing on is, especially a person who is supposedly trained to defend themselves from such things, is not deadly force. Any man that thinks that they are in such grave danger that they must shoot someone simply because that person tackled them is a pussy and should have a desk job so the biggest threat they face is a paper cut. Granted they might see the paper cut as deadly force too but at least it will just be paper that they shoot.

Regarding this part, I have a natural inclination to agree with you (though much more nicely), but this has been overridden with direct experience from a hostile and delirious individual severely intoxicated with methamphetamine. Do you have direct experience as a law enforcement officer or with people severely intoxicated on methamphetamine? Or do you have data to back up your claim?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Mentally ill people are just that and cannot think rationally for themselves which is why thinking people should take steps which factor in causation. Too many tv shows featuring police always have them gunning down suspects likes its some kind of right of passage and that sends the wrong message to people.

 

[DrunkenSano]

WTF are you talking about? The cop talked to the victim and then decided to take him to a shelter in his police cruiser. Things only got heated when the victim said he wanted to go somewhere else and refused to get out of the cops car. At that point the cop called for backup but instead of waiting for said backup to arrive he decided to John Wayne it and escalated the situation all by himself with a person he knew was mentally ill.

Up until the point that the cop escalated the situation he just had a guy who refused to get out of his car but was otherwise calm and non-threatening. How the fuck do you jump to suicide by cop from those circumstances? Don't you think he would have did the entire suicide by cop thing during the initial encounter?

I think people are talking about different things. The LGBT college student in Geogia Tech was suicide by cop:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41323175

Video of the incident captured by a bystander shows Schultz saying "Shoot me!" several times while walking towards the officers.

"Drop the knife, man, come on," a police officer responds.

"Nobody wants to hurt you," another says, before one officer eventually opens fire, hitting Schultz in the chest.

Police had been responding to a 911 call of a person with a gun and knife, however Schultz was later found to only be carrying a multi-tool knife in their hand, a lawyer for his family said.

On Monday evening the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI), which is leading the inquiry into Schultz's death, said that Schultz had placed the call to 911 emergency responders.

The GBI said that the caller had described to police a white man with long blonde hair, wearing a T-shirt and jeans, and carrying a knife and possibly a gun.

They also claimed to have found three different suicide notes inside the dormitory where Schultz was living.

 

[Darwin333]

I think there is a difficulty here in that the title says "GA Tech shooting" but provides a link to a totally different incident. In the GT shooting, the student had a knife and continuously approached the officers, refusing to obey repeated instructions to put down the knife. They found suicide notes in the student's dorm room.

Ahh, sorry I hadn't heard of that one. Yeah, lunging at cops with a knife is a sure fire way to get dead and in most cases I have no qualms with the shooting as long as they had no other options available, like readily and quick access to a bean bag round. Regardless, it's hard to find fault with the police when a person intentionally tries to make them kill him.

Regarding this part, I have a natural inclination to agree with you (though much more nicely), but this has been overridden with direct experience from a hostile and delirious individual severely intoxicated with methamphetamine. Do you have direct experience as a law enforcement officer or with people severely intoxicated on methamphetamine? Or do you have data to back up your claim?

I can't imagine that he was all that hopped up on drugs since the officer was giving him a ride to a shelter but to answer your question, yes I do. Despite it being anecdotal, I still stand by my point. If the guy was going for the officers gun or trying to bash his head repeatedly into the ground then I would have a different opinion

 

[DrunkenSano]

Ahh, sorry I hadn't heard of that one. Yeah, lunging at cops with a knife is a sure fire way to get dead and in most cases I have no qualms with the shooting as long as they had no other options available, like readily and quick access to a bean bag round. Regardless, it's hard to find fault with the police when a person intentionally tries to make them kill him.

Not only that, the suicidal person unfortunately went a step further and called 9-1-1 on himself, stating there was an unstable man armed with a knife and possibly a gun. So the police was already in the mindset that this person was armed and dangerous. A perfect setup for tragic suicide by cop.

 

[senseamp]

Don't these cops have batons or something?

 

[brandonbull]

Of course the police will shoot anyone.
When they are scared.

And it so happens to be that the police are more scared of black men than white men.
But if you are not black, but try hard enough, the police will shoot you too.

I thought there were some reports detailing that police are more likely use lethal force against whites than blacks, but tend to do all the other actions at higher rates against blacks than whites.

 

[interchange]

I can't imagine that he was all that hopped up on drugs since the officer was giving him a ride to a shelter but to answer your question, yes I do. Despite it being anecdotal, I still stand by my point. If the guy was going for the officers gun or trying to bash his head repeatedly into the ground then I would have a different opinion

Hard to say. I agree, though, that during their initial interaction he was in a different state than what I've seen from very dangerous meth intoxication, and it was probably not wise to try to force him out of the vehicle, not have backup, and tase him. But there is a lot of detail missing having not been there and only reading a media report. Although, if someone who you just nailed with a taser has the ability to lunge at you and tackle you, that sounds pretty damn scary.

 

[Starbuck1975]

WTF are you talking about? The cop talked to the victim and then decided to take him to a shelter in his police cruiser. Things only got heated when the victim said he wanted to go somewhere else and refused to get out of the cops car. At that point the cop called for backup but instead of waiting for said backup to arrive he decided to John Wayne it and escalated the situation all by himself with a person he knew was mentally ill.

Up until the point that the cop escalated the situation he just had a guy who refused to get out of his car but was otherwise calm and non-threatening. How the fuck do you jump to suicide by cop from those circumstances? Don't you think he would have did the entire suicide by cop thing during the initial encounter?

I am talking about this Georgia Tech shooting, are there two Georgia Tech shooting stories going on?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-protest-slain-student/index.html

 

[Puffnstuff]

Don't these cops have batons or something?

Nah they stopped doing majorette and marching band work years ago.

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

There are several great articles on how different countries use police. One of my favorites is from Scotland, where the chief of police says that his officers routinely get into scrapes with offenders. They take punches and dish them out. But they don't kill anyone. and the officers are very rarely ever killed. Like 1 or 2 a decade. The US authorities come in and see this and just don't know what to say. It's like teaching a dog to fly...just not something they can get their heads around.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/...and-get-lessons-on-avoiding-deadly-force.html

http://news.sky.com/story/scots-police-teach-us-cops-how-to-avoid-gun-use-10151069

 

[Puffnstuff]

The US authorities come in and see this and just don't know what to say. It's like teaching a dog to fly...just not something they can get their heads around.

That's because we train our guys and gals that being a cop is akin to being a Roman Gladiator and the street is your arena..

 

[soundforbjt]

There are several great articles on how different countries use police. One of my favorites is from Scotland, where the chief of police says that his officers routinely get into scrapes with offenders. They take punches and dish them out. But they don't kill anyone. and the officers are very rarely ever killed. Like 1 or 2 a decade. The US authorities come in and see this and just don't know what to say. It's like teaching a dog to fly...just not something they can get their heads around.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/...and-get-lessons-on-avoiding-deadly-force.html

http://news.sky.com/story/scots-police-teach-us-cops-how-to-avoid-gun-use-10151069

Have you seen some of the fat-ass cops we have here in the US? They couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.

 

[child of wonder]

Sorry bud but no matter how you spin it tackling someone onto the ground they are standing on is, especially a person who is supposedly trained to defend themselves from such things, is not deadly force. Any man that thinks that they are in such grave danger that they must shoot someone simply because that person tackled them is a pussy and should have a desk job so the biggest threat they face is a paper cut. Granted they might see the paper cut as deadly force too but at least it will just be paper that they shoot.

BTW, this was NOT suicide by cop. Nothing about this says suicide by cop in any way, shape, or form. The guy wasn't even agitated until the cop tazed him, he was "passively resisting" by refusing to get out of the cops car because he wanted to go somewhere else. If the cop had waited for the backup that he called, considering there was no immediate danger and he was knowingly dealing with a mentally ill person, this guy wouldn't be dead.

First, my comments were about Scout Schultz. Second, on the issue of William Porubsky, the officer has a loaded firearm. When someone physically assaults them, the gun is in play. Police aren't trained jujitsu warriors with years of fighting experience, they're regular people with some hand to hand training. One lucky hit, they're unconscious, and now a guy on a 5 day meth binge has a loaded firearm. Is that the outcome you'd prefer?

Your "pussy" comment is wildly amusing coming from an anonymous keyboard warrior. Let's hand you a loaded gun, let a crazed meth head take you down to the ground, and see what you do.

 

[realibrad]

There are several great articles on how different countries use police. One of my favorites is from Scotland, where the chief of police says that his officers routinely get into scrapes with offenders. They take punches and dish them out. But they don't kill anyone. and the officers are very rarely ever killed. Like 1 or 2 a decade. The US authorities come in and see this and just don't know what to say. It's like teaching a dog to fly...just not something they can get their heads around.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/...and-get-lessons-on-avoiding-deadly-force.html

http://news.sky.com/story/scots-police-teach-us-cops-how-to-avoid-gun-use-10151069

Very different culture. In the US, its not rare to have cops assassinated. People will simply go up to cops and kill them. You don't have that type of violence against other cops around the world, and thus they simply don't need guns.

 

[alien42]

Very different culture. In the US, its not rare to have cops assassinated. People will simply go up to cops and kill them. You don't have that type of violence against other cops around the world, and thus they simply don't need guns.

i live in America and police assassination is extremely rare.

i am also going to assume you don't know jack about police in other countries, just spewing BS.

 

[Darwin333]

Hard to say. I agree, though, that during their initial interaction he was in a different state than what I've seen from very dangerous meth intoxication, and it was probably not wise to try to force him out of the vehicle, not have backup, and tase him. But there is a lot of detail missing having not been there and only reading a media report. Although, if someone who you just nailed with a taser has the ability to lunge at you and tackle you, that sounds pretty damn scary.

We don't know that he was nailed with a taser, the officer "attempted" to use the tazer on him so who knows, he could have missed or it could have malfunctioned. The broader point is, why the hell did the officer force the issue AFTER calling for backup but before they arrived? From everything I read the guy was sitting calmly in the police car until the officer escalated to using force against him and that agitated the known mentally ill man who unfortunately tackled the officer causing the officer such fear as to use deadly force. Despite the brutal physical assualt I haven't read anything about the officer spending a single night in the hospital or needing anything beyond roadside first aid.

 

[Darwin333]

First, my comments were about Scout Schultz. Second, on the issue of William Porubsky, the officer has a loaded firearm. When someone physically assaults them, the gun is in play. Police aren't trained jujitsu warriors with years of fighting experience, they're regular people with some hand to hand training. One lucky hit, they're unconscious, and now a guy on a 5 day meth binge has a loaded firearm. Is that the outcome you'd prefer?

Your "pussy" comment is wildly amusing coming from an anonymous keyboard warrior. Let's hand you a loaded gun, let a crazed meth head take you down to the ground, and see what you do.

Well I usually have a sidearm on me as well and was once in a scuffle with a person high as a kite. I honestly can't say if it was meth or whatever because I didn't think to ask but somehow, despite me being on my back at one point in time, no one got dead. I'm not trained in shit. I'm not some bad ass rambo like others like to think, I can't bench 500 pounds, I'm just a regular joe who was about his regular business. Again, this is anecdotal but you asked.

Again, my main point comes back to why didn't he wait for the back that he called knowing that he was dealing with a man that was mentally ill? If in ANY of the dangerous situations that I've been in I knew that I could wait safely while my buddies came to help me out you bet your sweet ass I would have.

 

[Darwin333]

Very different culture. In the US, its not rare to have cops assassinated. People will simply go up to cops and kill them. You don't have that type of violence against other cops around the world, and thus they simply don't need guns.

That is absurdly rare as the numbers very well prove. Sure there have been a few high profile cases recently but doesn't make it any less rare.

 

[realibrad]

i live in America and police assassination is extremely rare.

i am also going to assume you don't know jack about police in other countries, just spewing BS.

So are unarmed black men, but people sure do think its important. Last year 140 cops were killed. That said, not all were unprovoked but it happens at least once a year. That type of thing would be unheard of in other countries. For example, do you know how many UK officers were killed in the line of duty? The answer is zero. During 2016 Canada with about half the population of the UK had 9.

Different cultures have different traits. The US culture is far more violent than many other cultures. Saying that we need to remove guns from the police would be stupid in a culture that grew up on guns.

Your comment implies that I was somehow wrong, which is your claim. Do you have anything to back up that I was wrong?

 

[realibrad]

That is absurdly rare as the numbers very well prove. Sure there have been a few high profile cases recently but doesn't make it any less rare.

As I said to the other person, the point is that US culture is far more violent. Taking guns away from cops in our culture would be a horrific idea. The US culture is far more willing to murder than many other cultures where the police not having guns is reasonable and probably better.

 

[Puffnstuff]

As I said to the other person, the point is that US culture is far more violent. Taking guns away from cops in our culture would be a horrific idea. The US culture is far more willing to murder than many other cultures where the police not having guns is reasonable and probably better.

Think about how we start our children off with things like cap guns, dart guns, water guns not to mention video games with a central theme of killing everything in sight. Then we reinforce this behavior with movies and tv shows where violence and gun play are normalized. This behavior is pretty much etched in stone and isn't going to change anytime soon.

 

[Jaskalas]

Chicago probably has that many police involved shootings in a month or less.

There is probably more guns in Chicago than all of Germany :awe:

There were a total of 682 murders in Germany in 2015.

[Chicago] saw a surge in gun violence in 2016: 762 murders, 3,550 shooting incidents, and 4,331 shooting victims

 

[DrunkenSano]

Think about how we start our children off with things like cap guns, dart guns, water guns not to mention video games with a central theme of killing everything in sight. Then we reinforce this behavior with movies and tv shows where violence and gun play are normalized. This behavior is pretty much etched in stone and isn't going to change anytime soon.

That is one thing that is very messed up in our country, we are totally fine with violence on TV but if there is a little bit of nudity, ahmg lock it down, our kids are being corrupted. It's ass backwards.