Mormons

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer
Did you read it? It is posted by many reputable sources. If the author did not have solid evidence it would not have been posted by multiple reputable sources.

Do a search on mormon life expectancy, or don't ignorance is bliss!

So since many reputable sources posted it, it must be reputable? It doesn't quite work like that.

Furthermore, I don't care if they have longer life spans or not. Not drinking soda/caffeine/tea probably is good for you. If vegan devil worshippers had a long life span, would you jump on board? Like I said, most of us could benefit from following the lifestyle. It isn't a bad lifestyle at all. Alcohol, ciggarettes, soda; it will all kill you.

Tell me about the divorce rate. Is that legal divorce or temple divorce?

I just said it was interesting facts i came across. Something in the LA Times says only 6% break up. Note i did say i found it hard to believe!

Link

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: pinion9
So since many reputable sources posted it, it must be reputable? It doesn't quite work like that.

1. You took what he said out of context and twisted it to try and make a point.
2. Several reputable sources would add validity to something reported, yes or no? Are you that ignorant to think that several reputable sources would provide misinformation knowingly (ignore government conspiracies here, please).

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: HBalzer
Link

It's easy to believe, with the belief structure in place. Family, in all its facets, holds a very strong presence.

 

[jdobratz]

Originally posted by: Alienwho

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: dugweb

I think he's a JW.

I agree. I've never met people more fanatical and gung-ho to slam the mormons in my entire life than JW's. On my mission they would actually let us in, pretending to be sincerely interested, only to close the door and stir up the flames.

About the polygamy, I see your point. I don't believe Joe Smith to be a prophet of God. I don't know enough about scriptures to answer the question about Abraham, etc. Was that old testament?

Nevermind I take that back, he can't be JW, he doesn't know his scriptures well enough.

Hey Pot, it's Kettle, you're black.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
There are some questions you can't claim you can't find. Answer them.

Didn't say I couldn't find them. Put this topic has a lot of posts and I didn't want to search through them.

I'm sorry, there may have been many post, but the questions where one page back and written by me. They're not that hard to find.

About the polygamy, I see your point. I don't believe Joe Smith to be a prophet of God. I don't know enough about scriptures to answer the question about Abraham, etc. Was that old testament?

If you don't accept Joseph Smith as a prophet, that's fine. But you're contradicting yourself. You claim to know enough to know that polygamy is right or wrong, yet now that you've been caught, you're changing your story. If you don't know enough to know that Abraham was a prophet in the Old Testament, then how can you claim to know enough about religion to prove we're a cult? Also, how can you claim to know polygamy is right or wrong when the only examples you've ever looked at in the LDS church?

As far as my character, I'm not going to speak up and call someone a liar like you do. Churches are different and maybe they were excommunicated. For example, you stated that adultery will get you excommunicated from the Church. My father in law cheated on his wife with another member and was not excommunicated. I don't doubt that it is normal practice to excommunicate, but an exception was made. In the same line of reasoning, I can see why a member could be exed for something like no tithing, etc.

I never asked you to call them a liar. I told you that you should have stood up and stated that such ideas are not doctrine of the church. Whether that person is lying or not, you don't even need to be involved in. As for me calling them a liar, if you had read my post, you would notice that I stated very plainly that either they were lying, or someone was lying to them.

As for the action that may take place as a result of actions made by that person, there are several things, of which excommunication is only one. Also, the offender or the offendie must present evidence of such events, or a confession, prior to the church being able to take any disciplinary actions.

The resulting actions may vary for specific crimes, but the crimes for which such actions may be used does not change. Anyone excommunicated for not paying tithing, marrying a non-member, or any other such action has full rights to appeal the action with headquareter, whereupon such action will be reversed. How do I know this? Because I'm very close friend with someone on that council that sees every excommunication that takes place. What has been stated simply does not happen.

You make it sound like the entire Mormon Church is unified, when it isn't. I have a Mormon coworker who says the churches up here are much better than in the states. Down in the states the men oogle her and make her uncomfortable with comments; up here they are respectful. The Church will not always behave the same, even though it should.

You are correct, and I never claim that the church members are the same in all locations. Even the Lord said such a thing is not the case. You even said such things are not the case. The actions of the members do not constitute the condoned actions of the Church.

I don't hate the Mormon church. I think Mormons are generally good people. However, it is still a cult, and like all cults, should be critically thought about. One problem with a cult is you join the fold and leave your own. Are people willing to accept that? There are a lot worse cults out there. But please, don't call yourselves Christians. You most certainly are not.

I don't want to be called Christian. I don't need the title, because that's all it is. Call our church a cult all you want. God has called it his true church, you've called it a cult. Who am I going to listen to?

People don't have to believe me. I think your ranting about the protection giving garments and super special planet Kolob are enough to turn most people away.

Since you don't know enough about the Bible to know that Abraham was a polygamist, how can you claim to know enough to know that the Bible never speaks of garments?

You are not the Bible. I have never encountered a religion wherein special members wore special clothing and had rituals to get rid of it.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: dugweb

I think he's a JW.

LOL
I don't know much about them except they don't celebrate anything.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: dugweb

I think he's a JW.

Wait a minute. dugweb? JW? I didn't think there was anyone non-LDS in Rexburg

 

[pinion9]

Did polygamy take place in the New Testament? After Jesus died for our sins, many things changed. What changed for Joe Smith?

To the other poster, I guess I am fired up about this because I have seen many lives ruined by this religion (while many, many more people are happy with it.) Yes, the Mormon family is strong. Yes, they believe in good lifestyle. At the same time, it is a cult, and you will be drawn in. Is that bad? It depends on who you want to be. It could be worse. But be prepared to leave the life you know behind.

I don't advocate any religion per se; I advocate reading the Bible and drawing your own conclusions. I believe, for example, that much of the Bible is parable and must not be taken literally. I don't necessarily believe that Job was swallowed by a whale. I believe it is a metaphor, but it still carries the meaning.

I don't remember scripture, I don't really care to either. At least I can admit to it, as opposed to using scripture out of context. Many bad things were done in the Bible and condoned, but we follow the New Testament now, not the Old Testament.

Nuns wear uniforms. They are allowed to wear other clothes, and there is no ritual to rid themselves of the uniform. Are school children who wear uniforms part of a cult? No.

Please tell me where in the Bible it speaks of garments giving special protection? Garments that you can only receive when married in a temple and that must always remain on. Is it wrong that my sister in law wears a thong under her garments?

I am not an expert on the religion, but I've seen enough things and known enough people to know what it is. I've seen the inside as an outsider, and I know what it is. Join, I don't care. At least you aren't joining up and bombing yourself for some fictitious god. I know this is a losing battle because you have faith; good for you.

Have you been a Mormon all your life?

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

If you don't accept Joseph Smith as a prophet, that's fine. But you're contradicting yourself. You claim to know enough to know that polygamy is right or wrong, yet now that you've been caught, you're changing your story. If you don't know enough to know that Abraham was a prophet in the Old Testament, then how can you claim to know enough about religion to prove we're a cult? Also, how can you claim to know polygamy is right or wrong when the only examples you've ever looked at in the LDS church?

Been caught? At what? I never changed my story. New Testament says polygamy is wrong. Who cares what they did in the Old Testament?

I know you are a cult from your behavior. The isolation, the rituals, the pedestal you stand on. Most people can see it, but those in the cult can't. You don't need to be an expert on a religion to claim it is a cult.

Do you think those idiots that were supposed to rendevouz with the comet were a cult?

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9
Did polygamy take place in the New Testament? After Jesus died for our sins, many things changed. What changed for Joe Smith?

To the other poster, I guess I am fired up about this because I have seen many lives ruined by this religion (while many, many more people are happy with it.) Yes, the Mormon family is strong. Yes, they believe in good lifestyle. At the same time, it is a cult, and you will be drawn in. Is that bad? It depends on who you want to be. It could be worse. But be prepared to leave the life you know behind.

I don't advocate any religion per se; I advocate reading the Bible and drawing your own conclusions. I believe, for example, that much of the Bible is parable and must not be taken literally. I don't necessarily believe that Job was swallowed by a whale. I believe it is a metaphor, but it still carries the meaning.

I don't remember scripture, I don't really care to either. At least I can admit to it, as opposed to using scripture out of context. Many bad things were done in the Bible and condoned, but we follow the New Testament now, not the Old Testament.

Nuns wear uniforms. They are allowed to wear other clothes, and there is no ritual to rid themselves of the uniform. Are school children who wear uniforms part of a cult? No.

Please tell me where in the Bible it speaks of garments giving special protection? Garments that you can only receive when married in a temple and that must always remain on. Is it wrong that my sister in law wears a thong under her garments?

I am not an expert on the religion, but I've seen enough things and known enough people to know what it is. I've seen the inside as an outsider, and I know what it is. Join, I don't care. At least you aren't joining up and bombing yourself for some fictitious god. I know this is a losing battle because you have faith; good for you.

Have you been a Mormon all your life?

You fought hard but it's impossible to beat God in an argument. Just kidding BTW!

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: dugweb

For someone that claims to have converted so many from the church, your tactics are horribly unrefined. Your arrogant, and biased attitude causes me to immediately tune out anything you say, as it would for anyone seeking an objective answer.

When did I say I converted so many? I said I do my part to draw them out and have. Never said it was a lot. 1 is plenty to be proud of.

Please, explain to me how I am arrogant. And of course I am biased, you idiot. That is why we are having the conversation. I have, however, given objectice evidence to support that the church and its tablets are hoaxes, yet everyone seems to find a mitigating answer.

I don't have tactics. I don't make a goal of converting members. Like I said before, the secret rituals, barring of blacks, Mountain Meadows Massacre, Kinderhook Plates, Joe Smith's jail time, and numerous coverups are enough to get people to stay out of the religion.

And those that do join do everyone else a favor. Now we have complete idiots joining a club and getting a nametag to go with it. Thanks for making yourselves easy to identify.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

You fought hard but it's impossible to beat God in an argument. Just kidding BTW!

Joe Smith is God now?

 

[Tom]

My wife is/was a Mormon so I have some personal impressions.

The overriding impression I have is that they do a fantastic job of keeping track of and helping their members. And I mean really helping them, not just wishing them well.

 

[pinion9]

Is the OP even around anymore?

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: Tom
My wife is/was a Mormon so I have some personal impressions.

The overriding impression I have is that they do a fantastic job of keeping track of and helping their members. And I mean really helping them, not just wishing them well.

You are correct. They will visit those in need and gift them at Christmas. They will give you the shirt of their back. They will pull you out of the ditch and will fill your fuel tank if you need it.

Do you attract flies with honey or vinegar?

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer

You fought hard but it's impossible to beat God in an argument. Just kidding BTW!

Joe Smith is God now?

Actually no I am!

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer

You fought hard but it's impossible to beat God in an argument. Just kidding BTW!

Joe Smith is God now?

Actually no I am!

Well how the hell is the weather on Kolob?!?!

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer

You fought hard but it's impossible to beat God in an argument. Just kidding BTW!

Joe Smith is God now?

Actually no I am!

Well how the hell is the weather on Kolob?!?!

pinion9 all jokes aside you say your in-laws are members? So is your wife a member?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Been caught? At what? I never changed my story. New Testament says polygamy is wrong. Who cares what they did in the Old Testament?

I know you are a cult from your behavior. The isolation, the rituals, the pedestal you stand on. Most people can see it, but those in the cult can't. You don't need to be an expert on a religion to claim it is a cult.

Do you think those idiots that were supposed to rendevouz with the comet were a cult?

Who cares what they did in the Old Testament??? The Savior himself said, I come not to replace the law, but to fulfill it. If you dismiss the Old Testament, how can you possibly hope to rely on the New Testament, which is nothing but the fullness of the Old Testament? That is where you're caught. By the way, you never did answer my question on polygamy. There where 3 answers and you never picked one. You simply tried to side step it by claiming you didn't know enough.

Oh, and where does the New Testament mention polygamy? If you're referring to the "man shall have but one wife", that's in the Old Testament too. And lest you think that it didn't apply prior to the Ten Commandments, David had multiple wives also, prior to his fall.

As for the cult, again, I don't care if you call us a cult. Be my guest. As for me, I don't call anyone a cult. The word cult has only recently been given a negative connotation. The word cult really is not bad in any way, shape, or form.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: HBalzer
pinion9 all jokes aside you say your in-laws are members? So is your wife a member?

My in-laws are members. Only 1 of the 6 kids is truly a member. Mom and Dad in-law rarely attend church anymore. They are really just putting up a front at this point, which is a byproduct of all holier-than-thou religions.

My wife is an inactive member. She hasn't bothered to get her name removed from the list because she doesn't care. She doesn't attend church at all and has no reason to. She believes organized religion is a terrible thing now. Too many bad experiences I guess, and too much stuff she just doesn't believe.

EDIT:

Let me tell you about the one kid that is truly a member (Brianna.) She got married 4 years ago, got married in the temple. She is now divorced with a kid. Her husband was abusive and a drug/porn addict. I am bitter towards her because before I married my wife, Brianna told me she was disappointed because my wife could do better; she could have married someone Mormon. It seems that marrying someone Mormon isn't the answer in all cases. We are all human. Apparently she forgot that.

The reason she married her husband? They were caught having sex and were forbidden to. So, instead, they got married before graduating high school to continue their sexual relationship. I know another Mormon girl who got married because she couldn't resist the sexual urges.

Marriage for the wrong reason > premarital sex? Is that common? (serious question)

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Who cares what they did in the Old Testament??? The Savior himself said, I come not to replace the law, but to fulfill it. If you dismiss the Old Testament, how can you possibly hope to rely on the New Testament, which is nothing but the fullness of the Old Testament? That is where you're caught. By the way, you never did answer my question on polygamy. There where 3 answers and you never picked one. You simply tried to side step it by claiming you didn't know enough.

I don't dismiss the Old Testament, but many things changed. I do not stone my children for disobeying, nor do I think polygamy is okay. JC came down, died, stuff changed. Please give me example of polygamy in the New Testament that were directed by God.

You gave me a loaded question, kind of like asking "Do you still beat your wife? Yes or no please."

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Who cares what they did in the Old Testament??? The Savior himself said, I come not to replace the law, but to fulfill it. If you dismiss the Old Testament, how can you possibly hope to rely on the New Testament, which is nothing but the fullness of the Old Testament? That is where you're caught. By the way, you never did answer my question on polygamy. There where 3 answers and you never picked one. You simply tried to side step it by claiming you didn't know enough.

I don't dismiss the Old Testament, but many things changed. I do not stone my children for disobeying, nor do I think polygamy is okay. JC came down, died, stuff changed. Please give me example of polygamy in the New Testament that were directed by God.

You gave me a loaded question, kind of like asking "Do you still beat your wife? Yes or no please."

see the correct response to that question is "only when she doe snot ge me a beer fast enough!" i joke i joke.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: dugweb

I think he's a JW.

Wait a minute. dugweb? JW? I didn't think there was anyone non-LDS in Rexburg

buwahahahahaah....with BYU there now, the infestation is great!

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer
pinion9 all jokes aside you say your in-laws are members? So is your wife a member?

My in-laws are members. Only 1 of the 6 kids is truly a member. Mom and Dad in-law rarely attend church anymore. They are really just putting up a front at this point, which is a byproduct of all holier-than-thou religions.

My wife is an inactive member. She hasn't bothered to get her name removed from the list because she doesn't care. She doesn't attend church at all and has no reason to. She believes organized religion is a terrible thing now. Too many bad experiences I guess, and too much stuff she just doesn't believe.

EDIT:

Let me tell you about the one kid that is truly a member (Brianna.) She got married 4 years ago, got married in the temple. She is now divorced with a kid. Her husband was abusive and a drug/porn addict. I am bitter towards her because before I married my wife, Brianna told me she was disappointed because my wife could do better; she could have married someone Mormon. It seems that marrying someone Mormon isn't the answer in all cases. We are all human. Apparently she forgot that.

The reason she married her husband? They were caught having sex and were forbidden to. So, instead, they got married before graduating high school to continue their sexual relationship. I know another Mormon girl who got married because she couldn't resist the sexual urges.

Marriage for the wrong reason > premarital sex? Is that common? (serious question)

Yes but not any more so for Mormons, See you are associating beliefs with the actions of a small sample of people. Are all Mormons perfect? Hell No. Are there Mormons that take the religion to far? Hell Yes!

The teachings are there and 2 of my best friends growing up were members. They never smoked never drank but boy did we have some good times. They enjoyed women but never let it go beyond heavy petting. We still keep in touch and both are happily married and are very successful. They never looked down on me because I didn?t join. I feel I am where am today because they showed me how to have fun without breaking the law.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: HBalzer
Yes but not any more so for Mormons, See you are associating beliefs with the actions of a small sample of people. Are all Mormons perfect? Hell No. Are there Mormons that take the religion to far? Hell Yes!

The teachings are there and 2 of my best friends growing up were members. They never smoked never drank but boy did we have some good times. They enjoyed women but never let it go beyond heavy petting. We still keep in touch and both are happily married and are very successful. They never looked down on me because I didn?t join. I feel I am where am today because they showed me how to have fun without breaking the law.

I know there are good Mormons and I have said this over and over again. However, ALL of my experiences have been negative. When I was 17 I dated a girl who tricked me into getting her pregnant (don't ask) and then broke up with me. She called me her sperm donor and moved away. Luckily she miscarried.

They participated in heavy petting? This is EXACTLY the problem with religions. They obey the letter of the law, and not the spirit of it.

Know why you always take 2 mormons fishing with you?
If you only take 1 he'll drink all your beer.