Mormons

[HBalzer]

pinion9 have you ever talked to your wife about the church?

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

I know there are good Mormons and I have said this over and over again. However, ALL of my experiences have been negative. When I was 17 I dated a girl who tricked me into getting her pregnant (don't ask) and then broke up with me. She called me her sperm donor and moved away. Luckily she miscarried.

They participated in heavy petting? This is EXACTLY the problem with religions. They obey the letter of the law, and not the spirit of it.

Know why you always take 2 mormons fishing with you?
If you only take 1 he'll drink all your beer.

No one is perfect the church doesn't claim to have perfect members. However if my son goes through his teenage life with no drugs, alcohol, smoking, or premarital sex I think he deserves a little heavy petting.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: HBalzer
pinion9 have you ever talked to your wife about the church?

Yep. When we first started dating she was an active member. Her Bishop told her to break up with me because I wasn't a member. She did for about 1 day. Then she realized she was in love with me and being with me > some Bishop's advice.

Let's see...my wife was raped by a church member when she was 14. Two other church members were convicted a few years ago for abducting a teenager and having sex with her for a few months. (NOT A TRAIT OF MORMONS!) This is what turned her away from ORGANIZED religion (in part.)

The turn from the Mormon church happened when she couldn't stomach all of the teachings and beliefs. There was too much doubt about the religion. She knew too many people that followed the letter of the law and not the spirit. Too many drunk Mormon kinds, too many abusive fathers. She doesn't like the way the woman is submissive and subserviant. She doesn't like feeling guilt and pressure from the Bishop about not tithing or going every Sunday. She just does not like it. Maybe we will join a different cult one day. But not this one.

 

[PatboyX]

mormons are no more a cult than any other religion.
it might be less obvious these days, but most religions really want you to "stay with your own."
and, again, while most of it isnt required, outfits and traditional wear is part of religion.
dont act like mormons dont hang out with non-mormons. they do. and they dont try to convert everyone. if you are not interested, they probably get it.

believing something objectivly absurd and potentially metaphoric (kolob) does not make a cult. as though putting two of every kind of animal into a boat isnt equally as crazy.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer
pinion9 have you ever talked to your wife about the church?

Yep. When we first started dating she was an active member. Her Bishop told her to break up with me because I wasn't a member. She did for about 1 day. Then she realized she was in love with me and being with me > some Bishop's advice.

Let's see...my wife was raped by a church member when she was 14. Two other church members were convicted a few years ago for abducting a teenager and having sex with her for a few months. (NOT A TRAIT OF MORMONS!) This is what turned her away from ORGANIZED religion (in part.)

The turn from the Mormon church happened when she couldn't stomach all of the teachings and beliefs. There was too much doubt about the religion. She knew too many people that followed the letter of the law and not the spirit. Too many drunk Mormon kinds, too many abusive fathers. She doesn't like the way the woman is submissive and subserviant. She doesn't like feeling guilt and pressure from the Bishop about not tithing or going every Sunday. She just does not like it. Maybe we will join a different cult one day. But not this one.

Do you live in UTAH?

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: HBalzer
Do you live in UTAH?

HELL NO! Alaska.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer
Do you live in UTAH?

HELL NO! Alaska.

Just wondering because my friends often made fun of "UTAH" mormons.

 

[FoBoT]

so many hate crimes in this thread

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9

I don't dismiss the Old Testament, but many things changed. I do not stone my children for disobeying, nor do I think polygamy is okay. JC came down, died, stuff changed. Please give me example of polygamy in the New Testament that were directed by God.

You gave me a loaded question, kind of like asking "Do you still beat your wife? Yes or no please."

I don't need to answer your question. You are the one making the claim that it changed, therefore you need to produce the evidence, not the other way around. You are claiming polygamy is wrong yet provide no evidence to support it.

The question is not loaded. It is a simply yes or no question, just as you described it.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

No one is perfect the church doesn't claim to have perfect members. However if my son goes through his teenage life with no drugs, alcohol, smoking, or premarital sex I think he deserves a little heavy petting.

Again, that is the problem. Yes, heavy petting > premartial sex for all parents. However, they are BOTH wrong. How can you condone one and condemn the other? Spirit of the law, my friend.

If my daughter goes through teenage life without ever trying heroin I think she deserves a little premarital sex.

Please don't step on the slippery slope.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: pinion9

I don't dismiss the Old Testament, but many things changed. I do not stone my children for disobeying, nor do I think polygamy is okay. JC came down, died, stuff changed. Please give me example of polygamy in the New Testament that were directed by God.

You gave me a loaded question, kind of like asking "Do you still beat your wife? Yes or no please."

I don't need to answer your question. You are the one making the claim that it changed, therefore you need to produce the evidence, not the other way around. You are claiming polygamy is wrong yet provide no evidence to support it.

The question is not loaded. It is a simply yes or no question, just as you described it.

Is polygmay not wrong?

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: PatboyX
mormons are no more a cult than any other religion.
it might be less obvious these days, but most religions really want you to "stay with your own."
and, again, while most of it isnt required, outfits and traditional wear is part of religion.
dont act like mormons dont hang out with non-mormons. they do. and they dont try to convert everyone. if you are not interested, they probably get it.

believing something objectivly absurd and potentially metaphoric (kolob) does not make a cult. as though putting two of every kind of animal into a boat isnt equally as crazy.

When I did attend church, NEVER did anyone tell me to associate less with non-Christians. Quite the opposite. I have first had knowledge of a Mormon Bishop telling a member to cut ties with the non-members in her life. (It means they can be acquaintances, but shouldn't be friends.)

There are lots of cults. Most are not as mainstream as Mormons (even though it is a very small religion.)

Outfits and traditional wear are parts of many religions. However, jews do not have a special ritual to rid themselves of the yarmulke, nor do Nuns need to burn their habits. It is so much having the garment; it is the secrecy, being told they have to wear it, the special powers and protection it gives, and the rituals behind it that are cult like.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer

No one is perfect the church doesn't claim to have perfect members. However if my son goes through his teenage life with no drugs, alcohol, smoking, or premarital sex I think he deserves a little heavy petting.

Again, that is the problem. Yes, heavy petting > premartial sex for all parents. However, they are BOTH wrong. How can you condone one and condemn the other? Spirit of the law, my friend.

If my daughter goes through teenage life without ever trying heroin I think she deserves a little premarital sex.

Please don't step on the slippery slope.

I'm just being honest, would i condone it no. Would i be okay with it in the back of my mind for my son yes for my daughter not really. But there is no permanent damage done by petting.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer
pinion9 have you ever talked to your wife about the church?

Yep. When we first started dating she was an active member. Her Bishop told her to break up with me because I wasn't a member. She did for about 1 day. Then she realized she was in love with me and being with me > some Bishop's advice.

Let's see...my wife was raped by a church member when she was 14. Two other church members were convicted a few years ago for abducting a teenager and having sex with her for a few months. (NOT A TRAIT OF MORMONS!) This is what turned her away from ORGANIZED religion (in part.)

The turn from the Mormon church happened when she couldn't stomach all of the teachings and beliefs. There was too much doubt about the religion. She knew too many people that followed the letter of the law and not the spirit. Too many drunk Mormon kinds, too many abusive fathers. She doesn't like the way the woman is submissive and subserviant. She doesn't like feeling guilt and pressure from the Bishop about not tithing or going every Sunday. She just does not like it. Maybe we will join a different cult one day. But not this one.

You know, I think there is more of a problem with your neighborhood than the LDS church.

You are attempting to use the exact same logic atheist use against Christians. Look at all the bad things Christians used to do, and some still do. Yet you gladly take upon yourself that title, remove it from us, and cast us to be the bad people. You're living in denial.

If you claim our church is evil because of the actions of a few wayward people, then you yourself are a member of such an organization as well. You can't call our church evil because certain members conduct themselves in a manner contrary to the church guidelines. If you do, you belong to the same type of organization.

Does it suck that such things would happen? Absolutely. Do you have our sympathies for such actions? Absolutely. Is it the churches fault those people did what they did? No. You either must stop condemning our church for such actions, or accept a similar brand upon yourself for being a Christian. Which is it?

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so many hate crimes in this thread

WTF? Do you know the definition of crime?

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: PatboyX
mormons are no more a cult than any other religion.
it might be less obvious these days, but most religions really want you to "stay with your own."
and, again, while most of it isnt required, outfits and traditional wear is part of religion.
dont act like mormons dont hang out with non-mormons. they do. and they dont try to convert everyone. if you are not interested, they probably get it.

believing something objectivly absurd and potentially metaphoric (kolob) does not make a cult. as though putting two of every kind of animal into a boat isnt equally as crazy.

When I did attend church, NEVER did anyone tell me to associate less with non-Christians. Quite the opposite. I have first had knowledge of a Mormon Bishop telling a member to cut ties with the non-members in her life. (It means they can be acquaintances, but shouldn't be friends.)

There are lots of cults. Most are not as mainstream as Mormons (even though it is a very small religion.)

Outfits and traditional wear are parts of many religions. However, jews do not have a special ritual to rid themselves of the yarmulke, nor do Nuns need to burn their habits. It is so much having the garment; it is the secrecy, being told they have to wear it, the special powers and protection it gives, and the rituals behind it that are cult like.

in my mind, all of it is. regardless of religion. its all strange when you are on the outside.
obviously, personal pain will color any view of it. but i dont think its really an engine of hate or sin or however some of the people here are painting.
you've had a personally horrid experience with the religion and i would never suggest to someone how to deal with that or how they should feel because of it.
maybe they do get hardcore masonic on deeper levels of the religion...i have no idea. i can just put forth what i know: they seem, to me, no more or less absurd and controlling than any other religion. i feel like calling it a cult is a matter of semantics.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: HBalzer
pinion9 have you ever talked to your wife about the church?

Yep. When we first started dating she was an active member. Her Bishop told her to break up with me because I wasn't a member. She did for about 1 day. Then she realized she was in love with me and being with me > some Bishop's advice.

Let's see...my wife was raped by a church member when she was 14. Two other church members were convicted a few years ago for abducting a teenager and having sex with her for a few months. (NOT A TRAIT OF MORMONS!) This is what turned her away from ORGANIZED religion (in part.)

The turn from the Mormon church happened when she couldn't stomach all of the teachings and beliefs. There was too much doubt about the religion. She knew too many people that followed the letter of the law and not the spirit. Too many drunk Mormon kinds, too many abusive fathers. She doesn't like the way the woman is submissive and subserviant. She doesn't like feeling guilt and pressure from the Bishop about not tithing or going every Sunday. She just does not like it. Maybe we will join a different cult one day. But not this one.

You know, I think there is more of a problem with your neighborhood than the LDS church.

You are attempting to use the exact same logic atheist use against Christians. Look at all the bad things Christians used to do, and some still do. Yet you gladly take upon yourself that title, remove it from us, and cast us to be the bad people. You're living in denial.

If you claim our church is evil because of the actions of a few wayward people, then you yourself are a member of such an organization as well. You can't call our church evil because certain members conduct themselves in a manner contrary to the church guidelines. If you do, you belong to the same type of organization.

Does it suck that such things would happen? Absolutely. Do you have our sympathies for such actions? Absolutely. Is it the churches fault those people did what they did? No. You either must stop condemning our church for such actions, or accept a similar brand upon yourself for being a Christian. Which is it?

Reading comprehension FTW!

I have to go for now. However, this has been over the span of a decade and 3 different neighborhoods. Maybe it is just the Church in this area. At any rate, I was explainaing why my wife hates it. I dislike it because of all the BS I have listed before.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Is polygmay not wrong?

Obviously it's not. The church stopped practicing it, not because it was wrong, but because the law of the land prohibited it.

Personally, I like it the way it is now. I can't imagine living the law of polygamy, nor do I want to. Doesn't mean I don't accept it as God's law, just means it's a hard pill to swallow.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Is polygmay not wrong?

Obviously it's not. The church stopped practicing it, not because it was wrong, but because the law of the land prohibited it.

Personally, I like it the way it is now. I can't imagine living the law of polygamy, nor do I want to. Doesn't mean I don't accept it as God's law, just means it's a hard pill to swallow.

So the law of the land trumped gods law?

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Is polygmay not wrong?

Obviously it's not. The church stopped practicing it, not because it was wrong, but because the law of the land prohibited it.

Personally, I like it the way it is now. I can't imagine living the law of polygamy, nor do I want to. Doesn't mean I don't accept it as God's law, just means it's a hard pill to swallow.

dude, you deserve a fvcking metal or something if you can deal with more than one wife. I know I couldn?t.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Reading comprehension FTW!

I have to go for now. However, this has been over the span of a decade and 3 different neighborhoods. Maybe it is just the Church in this area. At any rate, I was explainaing why my wife hates it. I dislike it because of all the BS I have listed before.

Running without providing answers again? How typical.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

So the law of the land trumped gods law?

God does not hold anyone guilty for the violation of his laws due to the enforcement of governmental legislation.

Do they trump them? No. However, the Lord is not stupid. Just because a law is not always practiced does not invalidate the law. The Lord will hold the appropriate people accountable at such times.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: pinion9

Reading comprehension FTW!

I have to go for now. However, this has been over the span of a decade and 3 different neighborhoods. Maybe it is just the Church in this area. At any rate, I was explainaing why my wife hates it. I dislike it because of all the BS I have listed before.

Running without providing answers again? How typical.

Is that proper mormon behavior?

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HBalzer

So the law of the land trumped gods law?

God does not hold anyone guilty for the violation of his laws due to the enforcement of governmental legislation.

Do they trump them? No. However, the Lord is not stupid. Just because a law is not always practiced does not invalidate the law. The Lord will hold the appropriate people accountable at such times.

So if i found a country that had no laws on polygamy the church would be okay with it?

 

[Alienwho]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HBalzer

So the law of the land trumped gods law?

God does not hold anyone guilty for the violation of his laws due to the enforcement of governmental legislation.

Do they trump them? No. However, the Lord is not stupid. Just because a law is not always practiced does not invalidate the law. The Lord will hold the appropriate people accountable at such times.

So if i found a country that had no laws on polygamy the church would be okay with it?

No, not everyone has the right to practice polygamy. God gave that right to Abraham and others in the old testament, but that didn't mean every man who lived in Abrahams land also had the same right.

Usually there is a higher reason to the practice rather than having a lot of wives just for the sake of having a lot of wives.

In the book or mormon a prophet condemns a group of nephites for practicing polygamy because david and solomon did so. There was no law against the practice of polygamy, it's just that God didn't okay them or have any reason to let them at the time.