Mortgage rates at all time low

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mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
"I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a re-fi, I think. I refinanced about 2 years ago and saved a full point, and if I refinanced today, I'd save more than another point. Do you guys think we'll see sub-3.5% on a 30-year fixed? It is getting pretty close now."
From what I've read, historically, the best rate ("par") for best qualified buyer who good downpayment / lots of equity in their home should run about 1.5% - 1.75% above the yield on 10 year Treasury.

Some talking heads on CNBC say it is conceivable that that yield, which I think was just at historic lows since something like Eisenhower administration at ~ 1.7%, could conceivably drop to as low as 1.5%, though they expect that rate to drift up slowly by 50 - 75 basis points over course of this year (I've seen others previously say they think 10 year should be around 2.4% - 2.5% by year end, though that was before all of the recent turmoil in stock market).

So theoretically I guess, that could translate into fixed rates as low as 3 or 3.25%, though even 3.5% (heck 3.75% would be unbelievable to me) is an amazing rate if you can actually get it (historically, anything below 6.5% has been considered pretty cheap). I believe 15 year fixed is historically supposed to run 0.5% below rate on comparable 30 year, but if you are going to be in the house for a long time, 30 year under 4% is probably going to look amazingly good in retrospect.

Mortgate Rates, It's All in Your Head: http://www.cnbc.com/id/40533411/Mortgage_Rates_Are_All_in_Your_Head (December 2010)

Where's My Super Cheap Mortgage?: http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/home-loans/lowest-mortgage-rates-are-hard-to-get-1315320975909/ (September 2011 article)

Rule of Thumb to see if refi makes sense (take loan amount and divide it into $125,000. That is minimum rate reduction necessary to make refi start to make sense): http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000050857 (video clip is from October 2011; specific rule of thumb comments start around 3 minute mark)




If you want a fee based professional opinion: http://www.askcarolynwarren.com/page11/page11.html (no affilation, just read her books and liked what she had to say)
 
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OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Good god I am so busy right now from these rates....I have to go into work today......10 files to submit in my stand-up :/

On the bright side.......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
These low mortgage rates don't help me at all... I have a $140,000 mortgage on a house that's only worth $95,000 now, and it's STILL dropping at about $1,000 a month. No bank in their right mind would refinance me.

I should really do a short sale on this sucker.
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
These low mortgage rates don't help me at all... I have a $140,000 mortgage on a house that's only worth $95,000 now, and it's STILL dropping at about $1,000 a month. No bank in their right mind would refinance me.

I should really do a short sale on this sucker.

If your with Fanny/Freddy look into HARPE. What rate are you at now?
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Just locked in at 3.5% on the house we're in the process of buying. If you're buying right now it's like winning the housing jackpot, lower prices and insanely low rates.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
If your with Fanny/Freddy look into HARPE. What rate are you at now?

Nope.. I have an CHFA mortgage (Connecticut's version of an FHA), currently owned by a local bank. It's at 5.5%, which was a really good rate when I got it 6 years ago. Now, not so much.
 
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mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
Yeah, my sister bought a condo with 30% down in 2007, 30 year fixed at 6.125%.

Has perhaps 5% equity remaining, but it is not Fannie / Freddie, and she no longer lives there, so lenders require 30% equity for refi of rental property.


 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,775
0
76
Yeah go buy a house now so they can pop the next bubble and fuck us all over again!!!!
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
You guys are all suckers. I paid all cash for my house. Now, excuse me as I drive off in my SLS to the racetrack.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
You guys are all suckers. I paid all cash for my house. Now, excuse me as I drive off in my SLS to the racetrack.

At these rates, paying cash for a house is probably not a good idea. You can invest that money and in all likelihood, make more than 3.5%.
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
Just locked in at 3.5% on the house we're in the process of buying. If you're buying right now it's like winning the housing jackpot, lower prices and insanely low rates.

30 or 15? Same rate I got a couple months ago, mines at 15. Which kind of loan did you go for?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,543
27,850
136
Inflation makes a come back and the banks are going to be hurtin gerkins again. WF is listing a 15yr at 2.875 with 1 point.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
You guys are all suckers. I paid all cash for my house. Now, excuse me as I drive off in my SLS to the racetrack.

Mortgage rates right now are around the average rate of inflation. There's really not much of an advantage to paying for a house in cash right now. In fact, it's a relatively safe bet that you can invest in something like an index fund and get a far better return on your money than by paying down your mortgage, especially if you can make use of tax advantaged retirement accounts.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
30 or 15? Same rate I got a couple months ago, mines at 15. Which kind of loan did you go for?

Mine pretty much as standard of a loan as you can get, 30 year fixed with 20% down. There will be one point on the mortgage but we aren't paying for it! I got a new job and as part of the relocation they pay all closing costs and buy one point on the mortgage.

This relocation was awesome, we weren't liking Phoenix (never liked the desert) and we needed a bigger house. The new job paid for all costs to sell my house in the Phoenix area and is paying for all transaction costs to buy one here. We're getting into a much better home with a better mortgage rate in an area we prefer and somebody else is paying for it all!
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
I thought JHu's comment was meant to be tongue in cheek / sarcastic, but I agree with your sentiment.

Tying up that much cash in an investment that as a rule (housing in general, as a whole, and over very, very extended periods of time) should appreciate at replacement cost / inflation (2 - 3% per year?) doesn't seem like a great investment, even if you get to live in it.

If you (generic you) could somehow get great 30 year fixed rate, no mortgage insurance or FHA fees, and something like 3 - 5% down like used to be available, take all of that cash you now don't have to keep tied up in house and wisely invest for long-term in the stock market, that's seems to me to be a great leveraged investment with little money down up front and then essentially dollar cost averaging into housing investment with your monthly mortgage payment.
 
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mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
Copy and paste of free newsletter I subscribe to (http://www.realestateconsulting.com/newsletter) recently talking about Phoenix:

"Phoenix is Rising


Adam Artunian
Senior Research Analyst

The Phoenix housing market is on fire, driven by strong economic growth, once in a generation affordability levels, and a surge in investment activity that far surpasses the levels during the housing boom. Once considered to be at ground zero of the housing market collapse, Phoenix has orchestrated a dramatic turnaround in recent months and has considerably outpaced other distressed markets such as Las Vegas, Riverside-San Bernardino and Sacramento. Phoenix was one of the hardest hit housing markets during the bust, with home values declining 57% from 2006 through mid-2011.

But since the middle of 2011, the housing conditions in Phoenix have markedly improved and prices have begun to rise. Certainly record affordability has helped nudge hesitant homebuyers off of the sidelines in recent months, but affordability is now excellent in nearly every market in the country. So why has Phoenix experienced such a sharp rebound while many other markets continue to struggle? Improvement in the following market drivers is playing a key role in Phoenix's recent surge:

Investors and Foreign Buyers: Although historically an attractive investment market, investors have flooded the Phoenix area since the downturn and now make up close to 45% of all buyers. Investor demand is so strong that first-time buyers frequently have difficulty competing with investors who are buying with all cash, often resulting in bidding wars where homes are sold above asking prices. With a current average single-family rental rate of $12,500 per year, and the selling price of a distressed home usually well below the median home price of $127K, investors can expect to achieve between a 5% to 10% annual return (after operating expenses and before any home price or rental appreciation). Competition for distressed resale homes is likely to get more challenging for buyers, with Phoenix making national headlines recently as one of the best markets in the country to purchase investment homes and enjoy favorable returns as rentals.

Much of the primary home demand originates from California, while second home/ retiree demand comes from a variety of "cold weather states" in the Midwest and Northeast. Also, Canadians are increasingly flush with cash and looking to take advantage of the favorable exchange rate that has given them unusual buying power. One in every 25 sales went to a buyer that listed a Canadian address when registering the sale in February, according to the Cromford Report, a local real-estate publication.


Although investors deserve much of the credit for rising home prices in Phoenix, many are concerned with the inability of non-cash homebuyers to compete with investors in many neighborhoods, particularly since mortgage qualification is so difficult. Government-sponsored loan guarantor Fannie Mae was the first bank-owned home seller to express concerns about the destabilizing effect investor dominance could have and has been pushing a program called First Look, which prohibits investors from bidding on Fannie Mae-owned homes for the first 15 days after they are listed for sale. Another tactic implemented by some lenders to make the market more fair and competitive has been to refuse all bids, either from investor or homebuyer, for a set number of days after a bank-owned home is listed for sale. Known as "initial marketing periods," these three- to seven-day bidding moratoriums were designed to give bank-owned home listings better exposure to a broader range of potential buyers. The competitive environment in the resale market has an upside for homebuilders: primary buyers who are fed up with the bidding process and cash-heavy investors in the resale market often turn to purchasing a new home for the relatively hassle-free experience.

Lean Inventory: Months of supply is now at a very low 2.4 months, down from nearly 5 months just one year ago and over 12 months in early 2008. Months of supply has not been this low in Phoenix since late 2005 when sales activity was at feverish levels. Investors and foreign buyers have helped reduce Phoenix's housing inventory to its lowest level in over 6 years. Low inventory tends to create more competition among buyers, which has helped to stabilize prices (our Burns Home Value Index™ is up +1.5% year-over-year in Phoenix). Resale listings have fallen 43% since March 2011 and are now as low as they were at the peak of the market in September of 2005. Below are the listings and months of supply trends since mid-2005 in Phoenix.


Strong Job Growth: After losing approximately 230K jobs from 2008 to late 2010 (approximately 12% of its workforce), the Phoenix metro has experienced 17 consecutive months of positive year-over-year job growth, with February's growth climbing to a 2.1% annual growth rate. The unemployment rate has also fallen sharply over the last year, dropping to a 3-year low of 7.8% from 8.8% in February of 2011. The local economy has had a boost from several big employers like Amazon.com and Intel who have begun hiring again. Other metros with large amounts of housing distress like Las Vegas and Riverside-San Bernardino lack the economic diversity that Phoenix has, resulting in a far more restrained economic recovery.



Seasonality: In addition to supply constraints and improving economic conditions as stated above, the seasonality of Phoenix has boosted home sales over the past three months. Phoenix is a seasonal market for "snowbirds" who flock to the Valley during mild winter months and then return to their primary residence during the harsh summer season. This past winter has been the "perfect storm" for home sales in Phoenix, with improving conditions as mentioned above, low interest rates, tax refunds that can be used as down payments, excellent weather, tourism, and the MLB Cactus League's Spring Training activity that takes place in Phoenix in March. The true test of Phoenix housing market strength will be this summer, when these favorable elements subside and the housing market will stand more on its own.

The above housing and economic considerations have made Phoenix one of the hottest housing markets in the country and have gone a long way in boosting demand for new homes in the area. As long as the economy grows and affordability is fantastic, we don't see any harm caused by the investors. However, we can't help but wonder what the investors will do with their homes when they sense the next downturn has arrived. Stay tuned!"



edit: misread above poster's comment while just scanning thread (thought he was relocating to Phoenix, not away from it). This posting was not meant as a jab at him.
 
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Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Copy and paste of free newsletter I subscribe to (http://www.realestateconsulting.com/newsletter) recently talking about Phoenix:





edit: misread above poster's comment while just scanning thread (thought he was relocating to Phoenix, not away from it). This posting was not meant as a jab at him.

Actually, I was talking about what was covered in that article in another thread with a troll that shall remain nameless. He refused to believe me or actual closing prices on homes.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Yeah go buy a house now so they can pop the next bubble and fuck us all over again!!!!

You obviously have no idea what caused the bubble. Low-rates are definately not it.

Everyone who is getting a home loan right now (excluding FHA Streamline, no income required) qualifies for the house. And they are not getting loans that will negatively amoratize or move up 5 points.

Underwriting is very strict right now.

Shameless plug: Anyone who has a FHA loan from March 2009 or earlier, and lives in CA......PM me.
 
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SirChadwick

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
4,595
1
81
These low mortgage rates don't help me at all... I have a $140,000 mortgage on a house that's only worth $95,000 now, and it's STILL dropping at about $1,000 a month. No bank in their right mind would refinance me.

I should really do a short sale on this sucker.

I purchased my home for 170K in 2008 with only 2.75% down (30 yr) and it's worth about 149k right now. My interest rate is 6.25 and even though I'm under by about 10k, my bank is letting me refinance with a steamline FHA at 4%. We plan on living here at least another 3 years, well past the breakeven point and it will lower my payments by about $200/month. Not sure why you couldn't refinance as it's pretty well understood that millions are under on their homes right now. Call around.
 
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jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
30yr FHA. I'm seeing "average" rates advertised online at ~3.75%, and that's what I was offered by one lender. For excellent credit, what should I expect to get?
 
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