News Mosque shooting in Christchurch, New Zealand - At least 49 dead

[soundforbjt]

Fox & Friends blames the shootings on socialism.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-and-friends-socialism-set-off-new-zealand-mosque-shooting-suspect

Because of course they do.

Blaming others for white supremacist right wing terrorism is pretty much SOP for Trump & Fox & Friends...

Of course, that's going to be the theme for Trump's campaign...the ebil Socialists are coming for your hamberders, your planes, they want open borders and MS13 to terrorize the country, blah,blah, blah, etc. They're to blame for everything.

 

[realibrad]

Which groups?

Drug Cartels. Intercity Blacks. Mexican immigration. What picked up for Muslims was post 9/11.

 

[Amused]

This is disgusting victim blaming by an Australian senator.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not every white person is a white supremacist. It has become culturally acceptable to demonize people based on skin color, you can’t twist it to say oh we just meant white supremacists. It has become culturally acceptable

Nobody said that. It's ridiculous diversion from White supremacists murdering people.

 

[Triloby]

The 74-page dossier by Brenton Tarrant, which has been described by Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison as a "work of hate", praised Trump as "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...100143150.html

Screw that manchild and his fucking dossier. I don't know why people are taking that loser's "manifesto" seriously, considering that he admits that he's nothing more than a real-life internet troll. This worthless fruitcake was literally live-streaming his rampage whilst yelling "Subscribe to Pewdiepie" and playing upbeat music, while killing almost 50 innocent people. There's nothing profound or deep about what this shit stain did here. His "manifesto" is nothing more than internet memes and incomprehensible garbage that led to a bunch of innocent people getting killed for nothing.

Also, the irony of some failure-at-life foreigner from Australia who spends a couple of years in NZ, talking about how Muslim "invaders" in NZ aren't wanted here is beyond palpable.

 

[UNCjigga]

I wonder how long it'll take before right-wing media starts complaining about Muslim/immigrant "no-go zones" in New Zealand.

 

[Jhhnn]

Drug Cartels. Intercity Blacks. Mexican immigration. What picked up for Muslims was post 9/11.

Well, yeh, of course. The GOP was broadening their base to include more haters & to give them somebody else to hate. It's all about fanning white fear of the other. The more others, the more reason to feel threatened & oppressed.

 

[Muse]

Nowhere is safe.

Well, I think that's what you have to think nowadays. And even if you were in a safe place I think it's your duty to make the world safe/safer. An Australian in on this? Those weapons are illegal in Australia since the massacre there ~1995, but not so in the USA, where these kinds of events are fairly commonplace compared to NZ. I continue to be for disarming people... civilian, military, police, whomever. The 2nd A isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

 

[realibrad]

Well, yeh, of course. The GOP was broadening their base to include more haters & to give them somebody else to hate. It's all about fanning white fear of the other. The more others, the more reason to feel threatened & oppressed.

Do you think that the Left does not also fan flames of fear?

 

[Vic]

Not every white person is a white supremacist. It has become culturally acceptable to demonize people based on skin color, you can’t twist it to say oh we just meant white supremacists. It has become culturally acceptable

Do you have reading comprehension problems or something?

For one thing, I am white. So obviously I don't believe that all whites are white supremacists. Not did I imply that in any way. I said very clearly that white supremacists pretend to be victims of racism even the people criticizing their racism are other whites.

But most importantly, you cannot say that something that been culturally acceptable since the beginning of human history has somehow suddenly or recently become culturally acceptable. Racism and bigotry have been dominate forces in history since the beginning of history. It has not become culturally acceptable, it has culturally unacceptable. What was commonplace or even inscribed in the law is now taboo. Speech that was once commonplace now could get you fired. And yeah, racists are pretty about all that. We hear from them all the time, and see it as they murder innocent people for bigoted reasons in their places of worship.

 

[Vic]

Nobody said that. It's ridiculous diversion from White supremacists murdering people.

Gee, I wonder why he feels compelled to do that?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

It seems that Lauren Southern deleted her "The Great Replacement" video (Muslims are replacing Whites in the west, White-genocide, etc.) as the murderer's alleged manifesto used the theory as its title...

Then promptly played the innocent victim. It’s funny how all the people specifically named by the shooter are claiming innocence in every regard.

 

[Vic]

Do you think that the Left does not also fan flames of fear?

Well, they didn't fan those flames this time. It's disgusting that something like this happens and the only thing some people care about is their 'side.'

 

[Muse]

What used to be a concert in the 70's, a mosh pit in the 80's, a rave in the 90's is now congregating racist projections, hate, xenophobia and cheering a mass shooting online in the 10's or even committing it.

World gone mad!

And I can't help but think it may get worse, a lot worse before it gets better. Underlying these terrorist attacks are very difficult problems that are apt to get worse. People in denial are a big part of the problem. We have to face our problems head on, not dodge them or pretend they don't exist or try to wall off the problem. I'm thinking of Edgar Alan Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death."

"If the killing don't stop, we all are doomed."

 

[Vic]

Then promptly played the innocent victim. It’s funny how all the people specifically named by the shooter are claiming innocence in every regard.

Hey, you gotta forgive them, they only said all the vile hateful shit they say for money and fame, just like Alex Jones. Of course, no one should take them seriously, as they spread irrational fear and hate in such copious amounts that they have to be shocked when someone acts on it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you think that the Left does not also fan flames of fear?

Quibble more. Deflect more. We are confronted by mass murder committed by a right wing Trump admirer & you want to cast innuendo on the Left instead. Because they're the real fear mongerers & haters, apparently.

 

[StinkyPinky]

These 49+ murders almost double the murder rate of NZ. (they only get about 60 murders a year)

 

[realibrad]

Well, they didn't fan those flames this time. It's disgusting that something like this happens and the only thing some people care about is their 'side.'

No disagreement there. But, Jhhnn's position seems to be that its a thing of the Right to fan flames, when that would appear to be wrong.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hey, you gotta forgive them, they only said all the vile hateful shit they say for money and fame, just like Alex Jones. Of course, no one should take them seriously, as they spread irrational fear and hate in such copious amounts that they have been shocked when someone acts on it.

Shocked, I tell you! When this dies down a little they'll be right back to spreading the same vile hateful shit as if nothing happened. Trump will be leading the band, too.

 

[Blackjack200]

Drug Cartels. Intercity Blacks. Mexican immigration. What picked up for Muslims was post 9/11.

As far as the timing goes, I think we're arguing a fine point, and I certainly don't argue that 9/11 was a major factor in mainstreaming Isalmophobia.

But I do disagree on some of the other points.

The war on drugs is used to criminalize poor blacks, latinos, and whites, and protect pharmaceutical profits. But it is not used to justify foreign aggression.

Inner city black people () are obviously victims of the economic system, but in a very different way. Islamophobia is used not so much to oppress Muslims in the US, rather to reduce opposition to aggressive foreign policy in Muslim countries.

I did mention migrants as the other major "antagonist" that replaced the Soviets, I think we're talking about the same thing on that one.

 

[realibrad]

Quibble more. Deflect more. We are confronted by mass murder committed by a right wing Trump admirer & you want to cast innuendo on the Left instead. Because they're the real fear mongerers & haters, apparently.

Deflect? I'm asking you the questions Jhhnn. How could I be deflecting when I'm going to you, and not you going to me?

Jhhnn, you are not making sense again. You were the one that brought up something in a way that made it seem like it was only a thing of the Right. I asked a simple question to see your position. Never did I say they were the real problem Jhhnn. You are all over the place and it make no sense as a response to what I said.

 

[realibrad]

As far as the timing goes, I think we're arguing a fine point, and I certainly don't argue that 9/11 was a major factor in mainstreaming Isalmophobia.

But I do disagree on some of the other points.

The war on drugs is used to criminalize poor blacks, latinos, and whites, and protect pharmaceutical profits. But it is not used to justify foreign aggression.

Inner city black people () are obviously victims of the economic system, but in a very different way. Islamophobia is used not so much to oppress Muslims in the US, rather to reduce opposition to aggressive foreign policy in Muslim countries.

I did mention migrants as the other major "antagonist" that replaced the Soviets, I think we're talking about the same thing on that one.

Don't forget the 1994 bill that Hillary referenced.

"But we also have to have an organized effort against gangs. Just as in a previous generation we had an organized effort against the mob. We need to take these people on. They are often connected to big drug cartels, they are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators — no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first, we have to bring them to heel."

That bill is one that targeted Black intercity kids more than any other group.

 

[Vic]

Don't forget the 1994 bill that Hillary referenced.

"But we also have to have an organized effort against gangs. Just as in a previous generation we had an organized effort against the mob. We need to take these people on. They are often connected to big drug cartels, they are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators — no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first, we have to bring them to heel."

That bill is one that targeted Black intercity kids more than any other group.

Are you just completely unaware of what this thread is about, or are you trying to derail it on purpose?

 

[Jaskalas]

I can't relate at all to people who put such emphasis on such trivial things as race.

You do not understand tribalism?

Racism is just a mask like any other. A shortcut to save time and energy while distinguishing those who are "other". What prompted this fear and anguish of "others"? That is the crux of the problem. We must teach that we are an open, and equal society. That we will not tolerate injustice. But we have failed at making our people feel safe and secure. When we speak, our people do not always listen or believe us. Faith in America, faith in western civilization, has been lost.

There is nothing trivial about basic human behavior, in our construction of "us VS them". Humans have behaved this way since our inception as a species. Overcoming it might be the very definition of enlightenment. Of being an advanced sci-fi civilization. We have a long ways to go...

 

[Muse]

Well, they didn't fan those flames this time. It's disgusting that something like this happens and the only thing some people care about is their 'side.'

That's something people have to get over. I don't think that way, I'm not wired like that. Helps that I live in an incredibly diverse spot in a very very diverse region and that I live alone. Anyone I meet is different from me! There's no Us and Them in me. Well, if I detect any, I try to eradicate it immediately. I've never been a joiner. I do a volunteer job, so that's the exception, but the people I work with in that are pretty enlightened folks.