Most Android users say they won't consider buying iPhone because they "hate Apple."

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Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,950
569
136
Oh why does Android force me to use Amazon, Picasa, MyBackup etc etc? Boo hoo?

Are you listening to yourself?

Are you listening to yourself? Android doesnt force you to use anything(Unless its AT&T). Apple restricts apps, android doesn't. How does that NOT sink into your brain?
 
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Zen0

Senior member
Jan 30, 2011
980
0
0
Are you listening to yourself? Android doesnt force you to use anything(Unless its AT&T). Apple restricts apps, android doesnt how does that NOT sink into your brain?

So, Apple forces you to NOT use something.

Is that the same as forcing you to use something? :'(

Perhaps a dictionary is in your future.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
That's a great question to ask Apple. Maybe they were just lazy? Maybe there is a reason they don't want you to drag and drop onto an iPad or iPhone. Maybe they'll just add the feature in iPhone 5 and call it "magical".

Why would I ask Apple? All they would say is how iTunes can be used for all of that and avoid the question entirely. I'm asking the resident Apple apologists.

I recommend a large capacity keychain flash drive for real life usage.

Entirely not the point. Why shouldn't people be able to transfer music, movies, apps, pics, etc to/from their iOS device as easily as they would use an ordinary flash drive?
 

Zen0

Senior member
Jan 30, 2011
980
0
0
Why would I ask Apple? All they would say is how iTunes can be used for all of that and avoid the question entirely. I'm asking the resident Apple apologists.



Entirely not the point. Why shouldn't people be able to transfer music, movies, apps, pics, etc to/from their iOS device as easily as they would use an ordinary flash drive?

Well, Apple might tell you an iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch are complicated and not suitable for such a purpose, with consideration for general users who may damage critical files.

That's why I mentioned you should probably ask Apple this.

Why are you treating your Apple device like a Flash drive when it clearly has no way of plugging into a USB port without assistance?
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
Why would I ask Apple? All they would say is how iTunes can be used for all of that and avoid the question entirely. I'm asking the resident Apple apologists.



Entirely not the point. Why shouldn't people be able to transfer music, movies, apps, pics, etc to/from their iOS device as easily as they would use an ordinary flash drive?


if you buy something on your iOS device and sync it with itunes it will copy the new purchases to your PC/Mac automatically. for photos you need an app that does it. or you can just copy it straight from the iOS device since it's like another hard drive in windows.

i don't understand your problem
 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,867
23
76
Well, Apple might tell you an iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch are complicated and not suitable for such a purpose, with consideration for general users who may damage critical files.

That's why I mentioned you should probably ask Apple this.

Why are you treating your Apple device like a Flash drive when it clearly has no way of plugging into a USB port without assistance?

that assistance being a cable? hell, every damn device uses a cable to hook into a usb port. my 250gb external drive hooks in the same way. the only difference is, apple decided the ipod side should be proprietary instead of standard usb. there is no assistance needed to plug in an ipod/ iphone.

the "its complicated" argument doesnt fly much with me either, as people who think drag and drop is complicated wont be trying to do it. some people just want a little bit more from their phones than apple is allowing, and they (apple) dont give a good reason why. as it is, i have used my phone as a storage device when i dont have my thumb drive on me. it does come in handy to have 16gb available when needed. i used my old winmo phone the same way.
 

Zen0

Senior member
Jan 30, 2011
980
0
0
that assistance being a cable? hell, every damn device uses a cable to hook into a usb port. my 250gb external drive hooks in the same way. the only difference is, apple decided the ipod side should be proprietary instead of standard usb. there is no assistance needed to plug in an ipod/ iphone.

the "its complicated" argument doesnt fly much with me either, as people who think drag and drop is complicated wont be trying to do it. some people just want a little bit more from their phones than apple is allowing, and they (apple) dont give a good reason why. as it is, i have used my phone as a storage device when i dont have my thumb drive on me. it does come in handy to have 16gb available when needed. i used my old winmo phone the same way.

My flash drive is a tiny thing on my keychain. I do not carry an Apple USB cable with my iPhone.

/Point.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Entirely not the point. Why shouldn't people be able to transfer music, movies, apps, pics, etc to/from their iOS device as easily as they would use an ordinary flash drive?

Because for one, iOS filesystem is different from that of a flash drive. There is no way you can mount it as a flash drive without special drivers. Those drivers come default with OSX but obviously doesn't with Windows and one has to install iTunes to have them. Due to iffy file structure mounting behavior, Apple thought it was best not to mount it all as a drive because then they'll expose the root directory as well, and if someone screws stuffs up, the device goes totally wanky, and that's something they don't want to deal with.

Another concern is security. Obviously exposing an iOS device's entire directory structure to anyone who can connect them to their computer is... uh... secure. I mean, anyone can "borrow" your iPhone, plug it into their computer, and see all of your text messages and contacts as well as phone logs. No big deal, right?

There are apps which can be used to access iOS devices like flash drives, though, but obviously they don't do a very good job due to the very same reasons stated above. It's either you compromise security to have that familiar flash drive feel, or you put up with iTunes and its atrocious drag-and-drop-then-click-to-sync interface.

Last but not least, there are people who are crazy enough to... you know, yank their cables. iTunes is used to make sure backups are made and done properly before someone else attempts to yank the cable again and has to restore the wole device. Copy and paste + command line formatting can't beat one-click restore...
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
runawayprisoner, there is a way to make a device USB compatible and still make it secure- aka put a password on the phone that needs to be entered before it will enter USB mode, hide system files or make them read only, etc.

The only reason why the iTunes syncing still exists is because it FORCES people to go through the money maker that is iTunes.

If normal people want to copy some piece of media off their friend's computer that they liked during a social visit they find they can't. This is by design- the design being a way to force media consumption through the profit-generating iTunes model. Plus there is the whole liability thing. Just like back in the iPod days, if people could easily drag and drop media on iDevices the media companies (that Apple is trying to cut deals with for iTunes) become offended because their devices turn into the ultimate pirate media movers.

Apple wants to make it so its VERY hard to get external media on the device, and VERY easy to get iTunes media on the device. The forceable use of iTunes is for their bottom line, nothing more or less.

That is why Apple product are only semi-useful to me until they are jailbroken, and the reason that I will stop buying iDevices if they ever find out how to stop jailbreaks.
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
Because for one, iOS filesystem is different from that of a flash drive. There is no way you can mount it as a flash drive without special drivers.

I don't think this is true. If you plug in an iPhone (or Touch) into Windows, you can drag and drop photos back and forth to a special section of the device. On my Windows 7, my iPhone's photo memory section shows up with as a Flash drive named "iPhone". If you can do photos, why can't you do MP3's or videos?
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
runawayprisoner, there is a way to make a device USB compatible and still make it secure- aka put a password on the phone that needs to be entered before it will enter USB mode, hide system files or make them read only, etc.

The only reason why the iTunes syncing still exists is because it FORCES people to go through the money maker that is iTunes.

If normal people want to copy some piece of media off their friend's computer that they liked during a social visit they find they can't. This is by design- the design being a way to force media consumption through the profit-generating iTunes model. Plus there is the whole liability thing. Just like back in the iPod days, if people could easily drag and drop media on iDevices the media companies (that Apple is trying to cut deals with for iTunes) become offended because their devices turn into the ultimate pirate media movers.

Apple wants to make it so its VERY hard to get external media on the device, and VERY easy to get iTunes media on the device. The forceable use of iTunes is for their bottom line, nothing more or less.

That is why Apple product are only semi-useful to me until they are jailbroken, and the reason that I will stop buying iDevices if they ever find out how to stop jailbreaks.

almost the entire iOS device is encrypted and this is why only the photos/videos folder is viewable in windows

apple is designing their devices to be more compliant with Microsoft's ActiveSync and to win more corporate business than android
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
The corporate business world is almost never Apple's target market.

iOS is designed to sell apps and media through iTunes to consumers...
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
so why are some fortune 500 companies officially testing iphones for employees? and there are thousands of corporate/enterprise/work related apps in the app store

i use ios/android and blackberry every day. ios will kill android in the enterprise. the exchange email integration is much better on iOS. and there are more apps for corporate use on iOS
 
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pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
almost the entire iOS device is encrypted and this is why only the photos/videos folder is viewable in windows

apple is designing their devices to be more compliant with Microsoft's ActiveSync and to win more corporate business than android

But the original iPhone and early firmwares for the iPhone 3G weren't encrypted (as I recall) and back then it was the same situation - you could access photos, but not anything else.


I agree with PoofyHair, Apple wanted to make it harder to share MP3 and MP4 files so they tied it to iTunes. On the other hand, I don't agree with him that they go out of their way to make it hard to get external media onto the iPhone - you drag and drop it and hit sync - it's argueably easier than buying it (where you have to search, buy, and hit sync).

so why are some fortune 500 companies officially testing iphones for employees? and there are thousands of corporate/enterprise/work related apps in the app store

i use ios/android and blackberry every day. ios will kill android in the enterprise. the exchange email integration is much better on iOS. and there are more apps for corporate use on iOS


Fortune 500 companies are testing Android phones for employees too. And while the built-in exchange email/calendar/contact integration is better in iOS than Android, I would argue that the external apps for Android make up the difference - for example, GoodMail. I'm not sure that it's a done deal which way the corporate world will swing. iOS has an early lead... they might build on it, or that lead might diminish as Android continues to gain momentum.
 
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hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,867
23
76
My flash drive is a tiny thing on my keychain. I do not carry an Apple USB cable with my iPhone.

/Point.

i dont trust my flash drive to hang from my keys, its either in my pocket or in my laptop case. ive also left it on my desk by accident, and was very glad i had a phone with a 16gb sd as well as 8gb of onboard memory to utilize when i got to a jobsite and needed to copy files off of a system. ive also been glad when at a friends house without my laptop case and wanted to copy some files he had. i have a zune, ipod and a myriad of other usb cables in my truck.

point? everyone is different. i bet there are more people with an ipod cable in their vehicles than you realize, especially with so many different head units supporting ipod control with a usb port on the front.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
runawayprisoner, there is a way to make a device USB compatible and still make it secure- aka put a password on the phone that needs to be entered before it will enter USB mode, hide system files or make them read only, etc.

If the system files are exposed, they will be read one way or another, and that's insecure in case you don't want sensitive information such as your contacts, text messages, emails, and photos, etc... to be available to anyone who has access to your device.

Requiring a password to enter USB mode is useless when the OS isn't running, or it's cumbersome when you have to restore the device and you can't enter the password. Plus it's not just USB but the dock connector is used for many other things, and you wouldn't want your phone to ask every time you connect something new.

Another problem is iOS pre-caches or indexes all of the files transferred over iTunes, so access to them is simultaneously without lag. If you were able to freely transfer files over, then the device has to scan your folders over and over again to look for compatible file types, which will undoubtedly slow down the operation and make it not as smooth as desired.

I don't think this is true. If you plug in an iPhone (or Touch) into Windows, you can drag and drop photos back and forth to a special section of the device. On my Windows 7, my iPhone's photo memory section shows up with as a Flash drive named "iPhone". If you can do photos, why can't you do MP3's or videos?

Because as I mentioned up there, if you can freely change the files inside the system, then the device has no way to know if something has been added or modified without scanning the files all over again. And file scanning is very slow on devices with limited I/O performance like the iPad, so scanning over files will make it lag more than necessary, especially more so when there are too many files.

Android did suffer tremendously from that. Especially Samsung's Galaxy S phones.

And that's even assuming it won't expose the security risks I mentioned.
 
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pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
Because as I mentioned up there, if you can freely change the files inside the system, then the device has no way to know if something has been added or modified without scanning the files all over again. And file scanning is very slow on devices with limited I/O performance like the iPad, so scanning over files will make it lag more than necessary, especially more so when there are too many files.

Nope, I'm still not convinced. If it can sync photos (and it does), and it can update the photo album (which it does), and this updating is actually more complex than anything it would do to an MP3 (which it is, since it needs to make thumbnails), then they could have enabled this functionality if they wanted to.

I don't think there's a technical nor a security related reason for why they have it the way that it is. I personally think it's contractual.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
iTunes can be kind of clunky, and I really prefer using QuickTime Lite, but sometimes you simply cannot get QTL 4.0 to work with iTunes (it will complain that QT is not installed).

I think the gripe about it is simply from not liking Apple. iTunes doesn't take over my PC, and the only annoying thing it ever does is constantly restore its window whenever something happens (such as a download finishing). I'll be browsing a webpage on my second monitor and *bam* iTunes pops up. Damnit, iTunes! I told you to minimize so I wouldn't have to look at you.

Now that I have an iPhone and an iPad, I typically use iTunes for updating software so I don't have to download universal apps twice. I tend to use too much bandwidth, and I don't want Comcast to get angry over it!

That G73 was a huge waste of money, one of the most problematic mobile GPUs I've ever owned with the horrible driver support (crash, lock, grey screen of deaths). You're not getting anything past me since I've owned just about every Laptop worth looking into.

I have a friend that owns a G73jh (first generation one) and he loves it. To my knowledge, he has not had any problems with it.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Seems to me the smarter thing for Apple to have done is what Android devices do; the Android OS is separate from the phone/tablet's storage. That way the storage can be like a regular drive and the OS can be as secure as it is now.

The question is why they didn't do that.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
If the system files are exposed, they will be read one way or another, and that's insecure in case you don't want sensitive information such as your contacts, text messages, emails, and photos, etc... to be available to anyone who has access to your device.

Fine, then only make a certain part of the memory (such as the media folder) show up when you plug in the device. Make it so the device's USB storage driver can't even mount the system files. Problem solved.

Requiring a password to enter USB mode is useless when the OS isn't running, or it's cumbersome when you have to restore the device and you can't enter the password. Plus it's not just USB but the dock connector is used for many other things, and you wouldn't want your phone to ask every time you connect something new.

I would rather have to enter a password every time I use a USB device if the alternative is I get no native USB support. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Another problem is iOS pre-caches or indexes all of the files transferred over iTunes, so access to them is simultaneously without lag. If you were able to freely transfer files over, then the device has to scan your folders over and over again to look for compatible file types, which will undoubtedly slow down the operation and make it not as smooth as desired.

No, I am able to copy and paste without knowing which files are "compatible." Hell if there is a true open app store then hopefully I can find some app to make every file "compatible."

There are two reasons for the iTunes' dependency, and you missed them both.

For consumers: Lord Jobs assumes that most people can't manage their own digital device, so they need the training wheels named iTunes.

For Apple: iTunes locks them into a profit store, and make trading pirate media (that compete with iTunes' products) that much harder.
 
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