Most Android users say they won't consider buying iPhone because they "hate Apple."

[alent1234]

the idevice file system is exposed to apps in way. with drop box and VLC player you can move media from your computer to an idevice easily. you just can't do it in windows explorer. not like apple makes you buy all media from them

 

[zsdersw]

For consumers: Lord Jobs assumes that most people can't manage their own digital device, so they need the training wheels named iTunes.

For Apple: iTunes locks them into a profit store, and make trading pirate media (that compete with iTunes' products) that much harder.

Precisely why I will never purchase an iOS device.

 

[zsdersw]

the idevice file system is exposed to apps in way. with drop box and VLC player you can move media from your computer to an idevice easily. you just can't do it in windows explorer. not like apple makes you buy all media from them

Again... why couldn't the system have been set up where an app isn't needed? Why does iOS need to be in the same "partition" as the rest of the storage?

 

[poofyhairguy]

the idevice file system is exposed to apps in way. with drop box and VLC player you can move media from your computer to an idevice easily. you just can't do it in windows explorer. not like apple makes you buy all media from them

How can I share easily a music file from my iPhone library with a friend using VLC or Dropbox? Answer is I can't, reason is by design.

 

[Fire&Blood]

How can I share easily a music file from my iPhone library with a friend using VLC or Dropbox? Answer is I can't, reason is by design.

Exactly. Perfect example of why Itunes has to be one of the worst 5 computer experiences I ever had.

I also want to add to your remark posted earlier regarding "pirated media". Apple utilized itunes to "fight piracy" but Apple also conveniently swept legit competition under the same piracy rug as well.

The difference in iphone functionality stock vs. jailbreak shows the platform is targeting IT illiterate cash cows and restricts competition. How many App Stores are there? Just one.

If you look for proof of how restrictive the platform is, look no further than attempts to make jailbreaking illegal, simply voiding the warranty on jailbroken iphones wasn't enough for Apple.

 

[Zen0]

How can I share easily a music file from my iPhone library with a friend using VLC or Dropbox? Answer is I can't, reason is by design.

What? You drag and drop? Copy/Paste?

Do you guys know how to use iTunes at all?

I made a video showing you guys how to use your computer/iTunes :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2160052&highlight=

 

[NaOH]

I don't know if iTunes makes it harder to use anything other than iTunes to buy music...If anything it's just as easy if not easier. My story is, I used to have a couple iRivers which let me manually manage EVERYTHING. Which was nice cause I could drag and drop and do whatever I wanted. A bad thing about that was, I had to MANUALLY manage my music. I had to individually seperate all my songs by artist and then into seperate letter folders to have everything organized on my computer first. Once I did that, I dragged it onto my iRiver. Once I tried out the iPod, I realized I didn't really need or want to have that kind of control. It's just music, why am I going to waste my precious time managing it when I don't have other things to take care of. I have all the same music as I did back then, and I only use iTunes to manage my devices. I have music from Amazon, CDs, and actually one one or two songs I got for free on iTunes cause of some deal. They all are equally as easy/difficult to manage in iTunes. Just drag and drop into the music library and hit sync. I can also set it to sync only selected songs, and do the same thing to as many of my devices as I want, something that would take more work manually (unless you did it at the same time) especially with more songs. Don't even get me started on playlists on the iRiver vs iPod/iPhone/iPad. I also, only use FOOBAR for playback on my PC because iTunes is not streamlined enough for when I just wanna listen to music. But it's definitely made my portable life A LOT easier.

Now, I know android handles files better than my iRiver. I'm just saying, some or a lot of us, don't care about how our MP3s get on our device, as long as it works perfectly. And that has been my experience.

To touch on the iPhone/iPad looking like a storage medium where you can drop and drag files back and forth. We built our own iPod boom box back in my college days. Everything worked in terms of remote control and such to the iPod. But, the one thing that DID NOT work, was being able to decrypt media files (structure and all that jazz) and media file information from the iPod (like to show the song name and stuff on the remote device. Apple does this, for some of the reasons you guys mentioned. Anti-Piracy, prevent playing of unwanted codecs that they didn't design the player to play, and also, to keep unauthorized production of accessories that aren't licensed.

I don't really know why everyone is arguing about the stupid drag and drop ability (although the iPod acted like external storage). It's a feature that affects very few. No ones going to convince someone else that they don't need or need a feature. Damn convos go on forever unless you guys can understand, to each his own (and it doesn't mean, one or the other is retarded. Unless you're willing to instagate an argument about a feature, then yeah, you are retarded).

 

[poofyhairguy]

What? You drag and drop? Copy/Paste?

Do you guys know how to use iTunes at all?

Do YOU not know that iTunes won't let you copy non-iTunes purchased music from a iDevice onto a computer?

By design.

I made a video showing you guys how to use your computer/iTunes :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2160052&highlight=

Funny, this doesn't work like you said on my Ubuntu netbook, even though my Nook Color can easily get and take media from that device.

EDIT: I am not anti-Apple. I have used OSX as my primary desktop OS since it went Intel, and I have had an iPhone from the first version. I just think that iTunes sucks, and the way Apple forces you to sync everything through iTunes is ridiculous in 2011.

 

[NaOH]

Zen0 is just as bad as the troll on the Apple side, as the android trolls on these forums. Makes an entertaining read when the two collide though.

 

[simonizor]

Zen0 is just as bad as the troll on the Apple side, as the android trolls on these forums. Makes an entertaining read when the two collide though.

Sure does.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

EDIT: I am not anti-Apple. I have used OSX as my primary desktop OS since it went Intel, and I have had an iPhone from the first version. I just think that iTunes sucks, and the way Apple forces you to sync everything through iTunes is ridiculous in 2011.

Tell me then, how would a regular person sync their media?

 

[KlokWyze]

@Zen0

1. Because I dislike the ecosystem. Being forced to use one software from one company sounds a bit big-brotherish to me.
If MS tried to do that they would be sued for Anti-Trust violations

2. Because all apple products put form over function. The layout of the interface on all apple products is retarded. Do you know how much I hate using my gf's macbook? Nothing is where it should be. If you remember in the pre OS9 days the close button was an empty square on the left hand side. That shit just ain't logical. The first computer I ever used was a system 6/7 macintosh. And I hated it because even for an 8 year old the layout was retarded. I used Windows 3.0 next and loved it. Windows had color and games like Commander Keen. All apple had was a monochrome GUI and no entertainment.

3. Price. I bought my Asus G73 for 1500$ brand new last year. Spec wise the nearest macbook would cost 2.5 grand. For 1500$ at the time a mac would only be 2/3rd's of what my G73 is.

4. The aura of infallibility around apple. The hypocrisy that apple is allowed to get away with is just ludicrous. MS does something it's automatically Bad. Apple does something it's automatically good. Apple adds a feature "OMG Apple you're so innovative!" MS adds a feature "Bleh who needs it?" or "OMG MS STOLE IT FROM APPLE!" etc etc.

Not to mention the media attention apple gets for it's product releases.

5. The cult of mac. This is probably the biggest turn off from me. You ever been pestered by Jehovah's witnesses to convert? My gf's uncle is a 'machead' and he just downright annoys me. Everytime we cross paths all he does is go on and on about how apple is so great and that MS is so bad. It's like these people built their entire identity around a computer company. And they're trying to defend it by preaching to the choir. Apple sells it's products to the uninformed bottom of the barrel consumer by playing the "We're not MS" role. That's just low. My gf likes her apple products but she's not like her uncle.

Apple made an enemy out of IBM in the 80's and Intel and Microsoft in the 90's. That's just unprofessional. Microsoft software products to me have always looked and felt better than apple's. But the media loves the underdog and just loves praising apple at every turn. Fock the underdog. There's a reason apple is second. Because they didn't give the consumer what they wanted in the first days of the GUI war and MS filled in the hole with windows. And apple's constant bitching to the FTC and DOJ means that microsoft can't include several pieces of it's software on windows. MSE, Moviemaker, etc. I have to download it from Microsoft.


Hey this is just me. Some people like apple. I don't. I prefer windows because the UI is miles ahead of any competitor. Sure I have my gripes with windows too. But it's changeable without going down into the kernel. If say apple or google were to make a serious competitor to windows and had everything I wanted/needed in an operating system than I'd jump ship. But for now because noone is serious I'll stick with windows. Just like I switch between Intel and Amd, and Amd and Nvidia.

EDIT: Oh yes I do have a droid but I'm considering getting win phone 7 because it has so many more functions that ios and android don't.

This made me lol.

Funny that OSX is based on Linux..... Apple takes out all the best parts. Coupled with proprietary hardware...... D:

 

[RobertPters77]

None of these are legitimate. You can install Windows on a Mac, there is no need for you to use iTunes except for maintaining a device. Complaining about price is like trying get buy an Aluminum Audi for the price of a Toyota. Complaining about some Mac users is like disliking Priuses because of some of the people who drive them.

What's the matter can't deal with a bit of criticism towards your beloved apple?

Why should I go through all the hassle of installing win 7 on a mac? When I can run windows as my primary boot OS natively on a PC? Apart from it being cheaper to build a native windows PC. What's the benefit of buying a mac just to install windows? It's like buying a Vespa to race in the indy 500. You think you look cool. But you don't.

That G73 was a huge waste of money, one of the most problematic mobile GPUs I've ever owned with the horrible driver support (crash, lock, grey screen of deaths). You're not getting anything past me since I've owned just about every Laptop worth looking into.

Now I know you're lying,

G73 is an Asus brand laptop. The gpu is an HD5870M. Amd drivers may not be as good as nvidia's but I don't get Blue nor Grey screens of death.

As it appears you are merrily proving, the typical Apple hater is an irrationally offended nerd who takes personal offense at superior build quality and design products that don't happen to cede much modification control to the end user.

Ok now I know you can't deal with criticism.

Using a single piece of metal as a selling point to prevent customers from swapping out the dead battery is not a pro. apple's product designs are too simple. Everything is 1-dimensional. The ipod's scroll wheel for one and the mac's inability to right click without holding down 2 keys at once on the keyboard.(Cmd+Ctrl I think it is?)

Asus makes apple products too. So do Quanta and Foxconn. All three make macbooks. Also they make computers for Dell, Acer, Lenovo, HP, etc. So you're mac probably came from the same factory as my g73. Your ipod/iphone/ipad came from foxconn. The same company that is reviled by me and many other pc users for it's shoddy quality.

If you want to compare the smarts, I'm guessing most Apple users are actually smarter than you. We can afford them, for starters.

HA! Are you serious?

So by your definition: Over paying for a computer is considered smart?

My gf's imac cost her 2k. It's slower than my G73 which cost 3/4th's as much. Encoding, decoding, etc etc. Even my shitty ass phenom desktop matches her imac and it only cost 1/2 the price.

This Zen0 guy is just looney. I don't know if he actually believes in the shit he spews or if he's just reading from a script.

Edit by Moderator PM
Debate the contents of the post and not the guy who posted it.

 

[SolidSnake42]

I have to agree. I don't approve of Apple's unethical behaviors, patent trolling, and the douche bag of a CEO in Steve Jobs. I don't mine proprietary hardware so much, but literally being locked out from doing anything you want without jailbreaking on the software side is not something I'm really into.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Tell me then, how would a regular person sync their media?

A syncing program that takes advantage of the USB mass storage. It is not like if you have mass storage support you CAN'T have the iTunes model as well. It is a false dichotomy manufactured by Apple.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Nope, I'm still not convinced. If it can sync photos (and it does), and it can update the photo album (which it does), and this updating is actually more complex than anything it would do to an MP3 (which it is, since it needs to make thumbnails), then they could have enabled this functionality if they wanted to.

I don't think there's a technical nor a security related reason for why they have it the way that it is. I personally think it's contractual.

Unless you are doing professional photography, I sincerely doubt many of your photos would be over 3MB in size. But most songs and MP3s are around that big or much bigger if we are talking decent quality.

It's a big difference scanning 500MB of disc space and look for change as opposed to scanning 4GB, and I know for sure some people do put even more music on their devices. Scanning 4GB for changes and indexing it is more of a chore than doing the same to 500MB no matter how you really want to look at it.

Of course, you are right in that since photo syncing can happen, music and movie can happen, but... in a nutshell, that's just a single folder for photos. iTunes handles music a different way. It puts songs from the same albums into separate folders, so if it were to show the media folder, no casual user would know what to put where for it to show up in iTunes. It's just picky that way.

If Apple were to scan all folders for changes, well... So it does look more complicated than it should. I think that's partly Apple's fault, but at least they are not trying to push it onto you to manually reorganize your music and movies. I can see how many still prefer it that way.

Fine, then only make a certain part of the memory (such as the media folder) show up when you plug in the device. Make it so the device's USB storage driver can't even mount the system files. Problem solved.

Well, if the USB storage driver can't mount system files then you can't restore the device.

...yes, there is a "restore" button in iTunes. It's crazy, but it's there.

No, I am able to copy and paste without knowing which files are "compatible." Hell if there is a true open app store then hopefully I can find some app to make every file "compatible."

Well, it depends on what it is you're trying to play back. Just about any popular format has an app on the App Store that can handle them. The only drawback is you either have to run iTunes to import files, or you have to purchase and install third-party solutions to mount all of those folders selectively as a USB drive, but you have to install iTunes either way to have necessary drivers.

The only thing not making its way into the App Store right now is emulation-type apps, and the reason being that they run self-modifying or execute custom codes, which has the potential to hamper security, and that's why they have to stay out.

It's funny, because there IS an emulation-type music player that can play/emulate the sound system of many popular video game and sound devices in the App Store. And it didn't violate the rules. I guess it only concerns self-modifying codes, which are necessary for dynamic recompilers used to speed up many emulators.

There are two reasons for the iTunes' dependency, and you missed them both.

For consumers: Lord Jobs assumes that most people can't manage their own digital device, so they need the training wheels named iTunes.

For Apple: iTunes locks them into a profit store, and make trading pirate media (that compete with iTunes' products) that much harder.

Well, reason number 2: iTunes locking people in would be valid if it wasn't so easy to add items to iTunes library. I mean... drag and drop.

And it would truly hamper trading pirate media if there wasn't a way to copy songs and movies back to a computer without the same iTunes library. But... there is. So it's kind of moot.

The way I see it, iTunes is just there because it's the default media manager on Mac, and Apple doesn't want to use something else or make it any more complex for their users and for themselves.

Also if iTunes is hampering anyone, I think it's mostly just pirates who are looking to pull songs from their friend's iPod without permission.

 

[alkemyst]

Much of the problem with the Iphone being a USB device is the file system is not native to any PC. Personally it's also a bit lowbrow to be tethering your phone that should have a ton of personal info on it to random PC's.

Get a USB key...small, high capacity (I carry 16GB) and if you forget or lose it, not a big deal.

Apple's technology for this though if you don't want that device is iDisk.

iTunes is great for anyone that uses their phone for business purposes. I plug it in and it syncs all my Exchange stuff and everything else. I have access to my pictures, movies, recordings. It's a great multipurpose tool.

 

[zsdersw]

Much of the problem with the Iphone being a USB device is the file system is not native to any PC. Personally it's also a bit lowbrow to be tethering your phone that should have a ton of personal info on it to random PC's.

Why does the OS have to exist on the same "partition" as the rest of the storage? Why couldn't the OS be in one part.. in whatever encrypted/secured/non-PC-native format they want.. and the rest of the storage be accessible as a regular USB device?

Get a USB key...small, high capacity (I carry 16GB) and if you forget or lose it, not a big deal.

Already have that... but a USB key can't play music or movies or show pictures, and have apps installed on it.

 

[alkemyst]

Why does the OS have to exist on the same "partition" as the rest of the storage? Why couldn't the OS be in one part.. in whatever encrypted/secured/non-PC-native format they want.. and the rest of the storage be accessible as a regular USB device?

Because Apple doesn't care to talk non-natively.

Already have that... but a USB key can't play music or movies or show pictures, and have apps installed on it.

your iPhone can...now I am confused what you are trying to accomplish.

You can store apps, photos, movies and music on your iPhone...you can pull most of this off your PC.

A USB key is not going to be able to do what you want with any phone.

 

[zsdersw]

Because Apple doesn't care to talk non-natively.

Then I don't "care" for Apple... if they can't be bothered to play with the rest of my technology the way I want. I'm the consumer; I should decide how I want to use the device I bought.. not the way they want me to.

I do think you phrased it correctly; snobbish tone and all... fits well with Apple.

your iPhone can...now I am confused what you are trying to accomplish.

You can store apps, photos, movies and music on your iPhone...you can pull most of this off your PC.

A USB key is not going to be able to do what you want with any phone.

I want to transfer music, movies, photos, apps to my phone with no more difficulty or hassle than if I were to put them on a USB flash drive.. but Apple would make me go through iTunes or download/pay for another app and/or jailbreak my device.. and I haven't heard a single good reason in this thread for why that is.

 

[foghorn67]

Unless you are doing professional photography, I sincerely doubt many of your photos would be over 3MB in size. But most songs and MP3s are around that big or much bigger if we are talking decent quality.

It's a big difference scanning 500MB of disc space and look for change as opposed to scanning 4GB, and I know for sure some people do put even more music on their devices. Scanning 4GB for changes and indexing it is more of a chore than doing the same to 500MB no matter how you really want to look at it.

Of course, you are right in that since photo syncing can happen, music and movie can happen, but... in a nutshell, that's just a single folder for photos. iTunes handles music a different way. It puts songs from the same albums into separate folders, so if it were to show the media folder, no casual user would know what to put where for it to show up in iTunes. It's just picky that way.

If Apple were to scan all folders for changes, well... So it does look more complicated than it should. I think that's partly Apple's fault, but at least they are not trying to push it onto you to manually reorganize your music and movies. I can see how many still prefer it that way.



Well, if the USB storage driver can't mount system files then you can't restore the device.

...yes, there is a "restore" button in iTunes. It's crazy, but it's there.



Well, it depends on what it is you're trying to play back. Just about any popular format has an app on the App Store that can handle them. The only drawback is you either have to run iTunes to import files, or you have to purchase and install third-party solutions to mount all of those folders selectively as a USB drive, but you have to install iTunes either way to have necessary drivers.

The only thing not making its way into the App Store right now is emulation-type apps, and the reason being that they run self-modifying or execute custom codes, which has the potential to hamper security, and that's why they have to stay out.

It's funny, because there IS an emulation-type music player that can play/emulate the sound system of many popular video game and sound devices in the App Store. And it didn't violate the rules. I guess it only concerns self-modifying codes, which are necessary for dynamic recompilers used to speed up many emulators.



Well, reason number 2: iTunes locking people in would be valid if it wasn't so easy to add items to iTunes library. I mean... drag and drop.

And it would truly hamper trading pirate media if there wasn't a way to copy songs and movies back to a computer without the same iTunes library. But... there is. So it's kind of moot.

The way I see it, iTunes is just there because it's the default media manager on Mac, and Apple doesn't want to use something else or make it any more complex for their users and for themselves.

Also if iTunes is hampering anyone, I think it's mostly just pirates who are looking to pull songs from their friend's iPod without permission.

You are making assumptions.
It doesn't take much for a jpeg to hit over 3MB in size. Most of today's consumer camera's easily do that. Yes, sub 200 dollar point and shoots.

I think you are just using ad hominem attacks with trying to lump iTunes haters with pirates.

 

[gaidensensei]

These surveys are always interesting to read, but it needs to look deeper into human social psychology to read why they prefer apple or droids. I'm sure other than the elites and fanbase, the majority of people who represent the bigger portion of consumers are clueless and picks based on what people tell them they should get or what their friends are using.


Personally, I think the next hit in the mobile market that will attract is something similar to the ipod touch 4. Almost everything a phone can do without the carrier.

If someone at this point, especially android, starts making devices that competes with the ipod touch (Dell Streak), with a direction towards texting / phone usage over wifi or some kind of connection, it can be bound to become a hit. Almost everyone complains about carrier charges, plans and such are the first turnoffs to actually getting the phone. Something without some kind of plan/communication limitation is likely a direction for future prospectives..

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Then I don't "care" for Apple... if they can't be bothered to play with the rest of my technology the way I want. I'm the consumer; I should decide how I want to use the device I bought.. not the way they want me to.

Yes, you are the consumer. But the mass market, which is the consumers that Apple is targeting, are not you and do not need to be bothered with having a USB mass storage drive.

Some people aren't going to like it, but its abundantly clear that the mass market is liking it.

 

[Tyranicus]

Lord Jobs assumes that most people can't manage their own digital device, so they need the training wheels named iTunes.

Most people can't. Anyone who works in consumer tech support can tell you this.

 

[Fire&Blood]

It's hard to describe the root of differences so I'll try an analogy:

Let's assume iphone is a pair of shoes. They look great, have great build quality but they only come in sizes 8-11. There is only one color, one model and the shoe care products can only be obtained in it's store. The limited sizes offered should fit majority of consumers but not all and if you don't like the look, you have to shop elsewhere.

Iphone=limitation of choices. If you want it, you are limited to 2 (most expensive) carriers.

1 model yearly. If you don't jailbreak it, your syncing and app purchase options are limited to one choice, the default one. To replace the battery without voiding the warranty, again limited to one choice.

The mockup (it's just a mockup) of iphone 5 on Topolsky's site has irritated many. Those with expiring 3GS contracts, if they want the iphone 5, they are out of luck of they don't like the new design.

The iphone is still a great phone for many but it's definitely not a superior phone, nor is any other, they all have strengths and weaknesses, just like the operating systems they run on.

Even if one could achieve the impossible and merge the best components from each OEM and combine the best things from all OS's into one, it still wouldn't the best fit for everyone.

The good thing is that any new phone, that hits the market helps the consumer choices, even if they aren't buying. I look forward to the impact of the phone 5, it will force other OEM's to launch better products.