Most heinous use of WMD in history

[joesmoke]

Hey....I'm in your sig. Where's my royalty check?

ive been sending you checks for 500 reps each month on the 11th day. Have you not been receiving them?

 

[zinfamous]

gas chambers?

and lol, OP is raging about something this morning.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were most deadly individual bombs
Firebombing in Europe and Japan was overall MUCH deadlier, but involved a LOT more bombs

Poison gas in WW1 battlefields resulted in around 90K fatalities (over 1 million casualties total)

WW2 civilian deaths are estimated to be between 30 and 50 million, countless casualties in terms of injuries, and unimaginable loss.

By the time the Atomic Bombs were used in Japan, many, many millions had already been killed. Millions more injured. Millions more homeless. The Japaneese empire during the WW2 timeframe was as ruthless as they come, not much better than the Nazi's.

I'm not going to say it was "OK" that the nukes were dropped, I'm not going to say that it was wrong that the nukes were dropped. I don't know what I would have done if I was in Truman's shoes.

Yes, Japan was losing the war very badly at the time the bombs were dropped.
Yes, Japan knew it was hopeless.
What I've read, and tend to think is true, is that Japan was planning to surrender in the summer of 45.
what I've read, and also tend to think is true, is that the US government was aware that Japan was going to try to surrender in the summer of 45.

Stalin was busy enslaving half of Europe, and had a LOT of built up power. There was a lot of worry and fear that Stalin would go after more of Europe, and continue on a path for world domination.

Thus, my thoughts are that the dropping the atomic bombs in Japan may not have been what forced Japan to surrender (as they were already planning to), but, they may have helped to convince Stalin that enough is enough in Europe, and to keep them from going west into what remained of "free" Europe...

If the bombs had not been dropped, I think Japan would have held on a bit longer, and more Americans would have lost their lives. But, I wonder what Stalin would have done...


Anyhow ... I think the most heinous crimes in history have all been commited by dictators/despots...

Mao Ze-Dong wiping out 50,000,000+ in china, Stalin was responsible for well over 20,000,000 of his own civilians dead between the purges and the starvation in the Ukraine, Hitler with over 10,000,000 civilians killed, Tojo having killed 5,000,000+, etc....

People are the most dangerous WMDs.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm a believer in "old testament vengeance."
You knos...that's where the person who believes themselves to be wronged, not only kills the person who committed the wrong, but also the family and friends of that person as well...in essence, kill anyone who even knows that person...

I told one of my bosses one time that I disagreed with his decision and was going to file a grievance on it...He gave in on the issue, but told me he didn't like to be threatened.
I told him I wasn't making threats...but that if I told him, "I'll set your house on fire and kill you and your family as you run screaming from the burning fucking building," THAT would be a threat...all I was doing was standing up for my rights.
He looked at me with and left...quickly.
For some reason, he always had one of the foremen deal with me after that...<shrug>

I've always believed we let Japan off TOO easily at the end of the war...but, I was never cursed with the compassion gene...so it may just be me...

 

[highland145]

I'm a believer in "old testament vengeance."
You knos...that's where the person who believes themselves to be wronged, not only kills the person who committed the wrong, but also the family and friends of that person as well...in essence, kill anyone who even knows that person...

I told one of my bosses one time that I disagreed with his decision and was going to file a grievance on it...He gave in on the issue, but told me he didn't like to be threatened.
I told him I wasn't making threats...but that if I told him, "I'll set your house on fire and kill you and your family as you run screaming from the burning fucking building," THAT would be a threat...all I was doing was standing up for my rights.
He looked at me with and left...quickly.
For some reason, he always had one of the foremen deal with me after that...<shrug>

I've always believed we let Japan off TOO easily at the end of the war...but, I was never cursed with the compassion gene...so it may just be me...

LOL,irl.

 

[Powermoloch]

it's 2011 and some ppl are still butthurt about it?

Even though Japan and the US became allies right after.

WTFBBQ

 

[rasczak]

That was the greatest use possible.......it isn't even worth arguing.


But yea, they teach you to make this thread in Trolling 101 I'm sure.

Wouldn't the point have been made even further if they just bombed Tokyo? Seems to make more sense to me. Kill more people in one spot and they would've stopped the minute the bomb hit ground zero.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I'm a believer in "old testament vengeance."
You knos...that's where the person who believes themselves to be wronged, not only kills the person who committed the wrong, but also the family and friends of that person as well...in essence, kill anyone who even knows that person...

I told one of my bosses one time that I disagreed with his decision and was going to file a grievance on it...He gave in on the issue, but told me he didn't like to be threatened.
I told him I wasn't making threats...but that if I told him, "I'll set your house on fire and kill you and your family as you run screaming from the burning fucking building," THAT would be a threat...all I was doing was standing up for my rights.
He looked at me with and left...quickly.
For some reason, he always had one of the foremen deal with me after that...<shrug>

I've always believed we let Japan off TOO easily at the end of the war...but, I was never cursed with the compassion gene...so it may just be me...

I think a LOT of soldiers who committed willful acts of aggression against unarmed civilians got away with their crimes. I think the systematic Japanese denial of the Nanking Massacre is an example of where they should have been put in their place, But, I do think in general, the actions to rebuild and reform Japan into a free nation were a better course of action instead of further revenge/punishment....

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

You also have to take into account that the after-effects of the bombing such as radiation poisoning was not known before surveying the damage of the bombing.

Because of this knowledge did people gain the moral clauses on such a decision.

Also people near the epicenter died a painless evaporation while the casualties from fire bombing suffered a torturous painful death.

 

[rasczak]

I agree...the Baton Death March was terrible...

But when compared to the Bataan Death March...it was just a walk in the park...

Perhaps NOT for the squeamish
http://www.bataansurvivor.com/pics/big/beheading.jpg

I did not see a beheading. I only saw a sword swinging down. :/

 

[BoomerD]

I think a LOT of soldiers who committed willful acts of aggression against unarmed civilians got away with their crimes. I think the systematic Japanese denial of the Nanking Massacre is an example of where they should have been put in their place, But, I do think in general, the actions to rebuild and reform Japan into a free nation were a better course of action instead of further revenge/punishment....

I believe that much of it was under orders, not individual behavior. That's why so much of it went unpunished. NOT because the Japanese military ignored the actions of a few soldiers, but because they were doing what they were ordered to do.

Having the ability to use hindsight, I agree with your last sentence. It probably was for the better...

 

[palswim]

Rebbecca Black- Friday

No, that is the Most heinous use of WMV.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

I believe that much of it was under orders, not individual behavior. That's why so much of it went unpunished. NOT because the Japanese military ignored the actions of a few soldiers, but because they were doing what they were ordered to do.

Having the ability to use hindsight, I agree with your last sentence. It probably was for the better...

Treaty of Versailles?

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

No, that is the Most heinous use of WMV.

lol.

 

[zinfamous]

I believe that much of it was under orders, not individual behavior. That's why so much of it went unpunished. NOT because the Japanese military ignored the actions of a few soldiers, but because they were doing what they were ordered to do.

Having the ability to use hindsight, I agree with your last sentence. It probably was for the better...

Well, the precedent set at Nuremberg established that this is no valid excuse, correct?

 

[sdifox]

Not directly, but I understand what he is talking about. Ran into myself in college as a history major. Occasionally you would run into one of those ultra left prof's who used his/her class to bash the United States and point to it as the source of all evil throughout history. Ignoring the facts and just preaching their anti us crap. They hated it when the class would start questioning their bullshit.

Of course there are right wing nutjob profs who do the same thing, I just don't think there are as many of them. I do remember one that taught a poli sci class on the American Presidents. Dropped that one to after he and I got into a screaming match one day and we ended up throwing stuff at each other in class.

I had to withdraw from several classes due to clashes with profs who let their ideology dictate how they skewed the facts and taught their classes. Can't stand that shit, just teach the facts and don't bullshit it up with your beliefs.

Oh, I have ran into commie profs before, but commie prof <> liberal, that is all I mean.

 

[ussfletcher]

No, that is the Most heinous use of WMV.

 

[bfdd]

nvm

 

[sdifox]

nvm

It's WMV now....

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I've always believed we let Japan off TOO easily at the end of the war...but, I was never cursed with the compassion gene...so it may just be me...

We tried that whole lets get our pound of flesh from them approach and we were rewarded with WW2. On the other hand, we came out of WW2 pretty damn nicely.

 

[BoomerD]

Well, the precedent set at Nuremberg established that this is no valid excuse, correct?

I agree...but that wasn't my point. It's not that the world doesn't hold them responsible...it's that Japan never held them responsible...or themselves for that matter.

 

[Howard]

posting in troll thread

 

[BurnItDwn]

I agree...but that wasn't my point. It's not that the world doesn't hold them responsible...it's that Japan never held them responsible...or themselves for that matter.

Was gonna say what zin said, but he hit the nail on the head.
However, I'm pretty sure the soldiers weren't "ordered" to rape 20,000+ women in Nanking.....
Some deplorable things they were ordered to do (massacres, etc), but a lot was not orders, it was just uncontrolled brutalization of a population.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

invention of the DMV.

 

[alkemyst]

It's sad how Americans feel that everyone in a foreign country must be supporting a war effort.