Most offroad capable years for Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4?

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm looking into buying a CRV or RAV4 for traveling around Australia.

Which model years are the most capable for offroading for the CRV and RAV4? I understand that in the case of the RAV4 the most recent versions are practically useless offroad.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I'mm'a get some popcorn...

 

[AdamK47]

Any vehicle can go off a road.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Any vehicle can go off a road.

Fewer can get back to the road.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Neither of those are going to cut it if you're going to do some serious outback trails here. What about a Hilux with a camper shell?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm looking for a car that's under $6k, city friendly, fuel efficient, and with a drive system at least as good as a Subaru.

My Subaru Crosstrek in the USA has enough off-road capability for me and gets 6.75L/100km cruising at 100kph fully loaded with gear. Goes up severely rutted forest roads, bushes the height of the bonnet, rocky stream beds, and snow-covered inclines just fine since it actually manages to send enough power to the back and laterally across wheels to get out of most things.

A 4x4 with a locking center diff will still get stuck if both diagonally opposing wheels start to slide and there isn't a system in place (independent braking or LSD) to send torque to the laterally opposing wheels that still have grip.

Since most stuff is solo I don't bother going into things that I'm not 100% confident I can get out of myself. Deeper mud and sand I avoid. Dry deeply rutted dirt roads are fine. Dry bits covered in foliage is fine.

I've looked at:

Suzuki Jimny - too small interior, but very capable and the 1.3L engine is great. Supposed to get around 7L/100km.

Suzuki SX4 - I like the 4WD lock ability but the fuel efficiency is crap even when it's in 2WD mode. The 2.0L engine is unnecessary and it only gets 8.5L/100km.

Suzuki Ignis / Holden Cruze YG - have no idea about it's AWD system but not expecting much performance. Fuel efficient though with the 1.3L engine.

Daihatsu Terios - too small interior space, but hear it's a pretty capable offroader.

I'm currently looking at a Jeep Patriot turbodiesel that's supposed to get 6.5L/100km.

Just wondering if the earlier CRV or RAV4 cars have an AWD system as good as the Subaru's. I've even heard that earlier RAV4s have a low range.

 

[jlee]

Prado/Hilux.

 

[Jimzz]

The CR-V has been caught cheating on their "4wd" system before so I would rule them out right away. A Rav4 in your budget would be very under powered, let alone not sure how well the AWD system works. My wife had one and we turned the AC off going up hills to make it move better, and that was on paved clean road.

So to answer your question, C: None of the above.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I'm not sure if Toyota or Honda AWD systems would be up to the task.
1st gen rav4 with the short wheelbase (3 door), looks like it's narrow and short enough that it should have decent approach and depart angles without too much worry about being high centered, but, I think you would want skid plates, and get some good all terrain tires if you really want to drive it out in the bush. (If you are gonna be in the bush a LOT, and spend very little time on paved roads, maybe welded diff?)

 

[BurnItDwn]

Gets bad fuel economy, but Mitsubishi Delica 4wd minivan is a good option if you want room to carry more gear and parts, and maybe plan to sleep in the vehicle.

Some Youtube Delicas

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Kind of off topic, but how many miles / kms do engines typically last? For cars like Delicas, Crown Vics, Hiluxes, and even CRVs I'm seeing ones with mileage of 200k+ miles with the owners saying they still run perfectly fine.

When an engine finally dies, is it an abrupt death or does it occur over time?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Kind of off topic, but how many miles / kms do engines typically last? For cars like Delicas, Crown Vics, Hiluxes, and even CRVs I'm seeing ones with mileage of 200k+ miles with the owners saying they still run perfectly fine.

When an engine finally dies, is it an abrupt death or does it occur over time?

It depends on the type of death and the type of use it sees. You just have to inspect the car for signs of wear, funny noises, etc.

Are you sure they're listing miles and not km? I just skimmed over craigslist used car listing for Sydney, and everything was listed in kilometers driven.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

It depends on the type of death and the type of use it sees.

Are you sure they're listing miles and not km? I just skimmed over craigslist used car listing for Sydney, and everything was listed in kilometers driven.

They're all in km. Lots of listings for 350,000+ kms.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Kind of off topic, but how many miles / kms do engines typically last? For cars like Delicas, Crown Vics, Hiluxes, and even CRVs I'm seeing ones with mileage of 200k+ miles with the owners saying they still run perfectly fine.

When an engine finally dies, is it an abrupt death or does it occur over time?

Dunno the answer to that, but, 200K miles isn't really that much, even our Subarus should be able to handle that provided that the head gasket is repaired before it blows up (my 2008 forester needed the work at 125K miles)

The Delicas I have seen are usually turbo diesels, which should have a longer life than most gasoline engines.

The Crown Vic uses the Ford Modular engine. It's usually good to go for heavy duty type vehicles (for example F750 Superduty), but, I have read that some issues do exist with Intake manifold & spark plugs).

 

[_Rick_]

Kind of off topic, but how many miles / kms do engines typically last? For cars like Delicas, Crown Vics, Hiluxes, and even CRVs I'm seeing ones with mileage of 200k+ miles with the owners saying they still run perfectly fine.

When an engine finally dies, is it an abrupt death or does it occur over time?

Anything can happen. Sometimes a piston has some surprise valves for breakfast, because timing is lost, sometimes a leaking head gasket slowly reduces lubrication and you have plenty of smoky warning.
That's before you get electrical death, gearbox issues, clutch issues, brake issues, all of which are mostly equally terminal, if you don't get regular traffic passing by or have some kind of communication device.

 

[sdifox]

How long do you plan to have the car? Jimny sounds like a good fit, lots of salvage parts.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I ended up getting a manual 2007 Subaru Impreza (3rd Gen, so like a 2008 body style).

The Jimny is just too small for everything and I can't sleep in it. But the Impreza is too low for any serious soft road stuff.

So far on the highway cruising at 65mph I get 32mpg measured at the pump. My 2014 Crosstrek with CVT but similar 2.0L engine gets 36mpg. I wonder why there is such a difference.

 

[jlee]

Kind of off topic, but how many miles / kms do engines typically last? For cars like Delicas, Crown Vics, Hiluxes, and even CRVs I'm seeing ones with mileage of 200k+ miles with the owners saying they still run perfectly fine.

When an engine finally dies, is it an abrupt death or does it occur over time?

Depends on the engine.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-toyota-truck-looks-like-after-1-000-000-mi-1776141464

 

[ponyo]

Depends on the engine.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-toyota-truck-looks-like-after-1-000-000-mi-1776141464

That's like ten timing belt and fourteen full sets of tire changes. Not to mention Tundra gets like 15 miles to gallon with 2UZ-FE engine. With million miles at $3 /gallon, that's $200,000 spent just on gas. Pretty crazy. What I like about Toyota is the transmission is tough too. My LX470 shows zero sign of slippage at 220k miles and feels like new.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I ended up getting a manual 2007 Subaru Impreza (3rd Gen, so like a 2008 body style).

The Jimny is just too small for everything and I can't sleep in it. But the Impreza is too low for any serious soft road stuff.

So far on the highway cruising at 65mph I get 32mpg measured at the pump. My 2014 Crosstrek with CVT but similar 2.0L engine gets 36mpg. I wonder why there is such a difference.

2007 Subarus use "EJ" engine, not the FB engine (which didn't come out until like 2010.) This will make a difference with fuel economy.
The 5 speed vs the CVT will also make a difference with fuel economy.

Looks like this might be useful as far as "how to " lift an Impreza (looks like you can get 2 inches by swapping out some suspension parts with Subaru parts, likely a professional mechanic shop would be happy to do the work.)
https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/118004-the-unofficial-how-to-lift-your-impreza-thread/

As well as some youtube:

 

[NutBucket]

Yep, Forester parts make for a cheap and easy lift.

Pretty sure your "old" Impreza has a 2.5L engine too. Your observed fuel economy seems reasonable.

I put old in quotes since I'm driving a 2005 WRX...it only feels old because there no invasive safety nannies to kill the fun!

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I contacted a guy in Australia that does lift kits and this is what he said:

Cool. A 2" lift kit with inbuilt camber & caster offsets and 2" rear subframe spacer kit is $620 AUD.

2.5" rear spacers is an extra $20/pair to correct any butt sag or if you load up the rear with gear ($640 AUD)

Camber & caster offsets are built in to keep the front wheel alignment in spec & optimise handling.

The rear subframe spacer kit keeps the rear alignment in spec & keeps the rear wheels centred so you can fit bigger tyres without rubbing. Maintains suspension droop for more grip offroad

The subframe main spacers are 6061 T6 billet alloy for ultimate strength & toughness and come with custom forged, grade 10.9 main bolts, a serious bit of hardware! Very easy to fit!!! (No awkward upper & lower bolts to reach from behind like other kits)

The kit is CAD designed & CNC laser cut 1/4” steel (not 3/16" like other kits) for ultimate strength & toughness, and is professionally rustproofed and powdercoated FREE.

This is a very complete kit, supplied with front, rear & subframe spacers, brake line bracket extensions, centre bearing spacer, all high tensile bolts & nuts, fitting instructions & stickers.

The kit is very tough, 33% thicker than the opposition & 77% stronger! Guaranteed to never bend!!!

It's pretty easy to fit yourself if you're mechanically minded and have the tools. The kit comes with detailed step by step instructions with photos, just follow them & you'll be fine.

After ordering, build time is around 3 weeks & shipping a couple of days.

Forester springs and struts are a good way to do it on the older models but I don't recommend it on your GH Impreza. You won't be able to get the front alignment in spec doing it that way.

I recommend strut top spacers with camber & caster offsets. This will keep the alignment in spec & keep the good Subaru handling

Either way you will still need the rear subframe spacer kit to keep the rear alignment in spec

What do you think? It's basically a spacer. What are the pros and cons between spacers and springs and struts? Everything I've read about springs and struts indicates you probably also need different control arms for the new geometry but I'm not sure why this isn't needed for spacers as well? In this case the springs and struts would be very expensive.

 

[NutBucket]

If you space the subframe then the control arm mounts are all shifted as well so the geometry is maintained (for the rear).

For the fronts, the angle of the lower arm is irrelevant as all the alignment adjustment is done on the strut side. So if his strut spacers accommodate for the shift (as it sounds like they do) then it should be a non-issue.