Most spectacular failure in video card history

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Gentlemen before you call crossfire a failer based on resolution .I think we need another vote on who has 19" or smaller LCDS and CRT's. Basing a products popularioty in this case. Will not come down to a limited res. It will come down to Ultra Performance which CrossFire has a lot of . This is a pure ENTHUSIESTS BOARD . This presentation of Crossfire is aimed directly at the Enthusiests and well be a hugh success. In that area.

Logic 101:

If this is a pure enthusiests board, then they would most likely have many other top of the line products, such as a Dell FPW 2405 or an FW900... Therefore, since the top end monitors support greater than 1600 X 1200 resolution, and CrossFire does not currently do greater than 1600 X 1200 @ 60hz, I think it is fair to say it was a "failure" given the context it is used in. Does that mean CrossFire will not sell any of their boards? Nope, but they certainly will not sell that many, until this limitation is fixed with the R520, and even then, we are not sure people will jump on CrossFire bandwagen if the cards are MSRP @ 599 and their performance isn't any greater than a 7800 GTX.

Who knows the future, but CrossFire THIS generation IS a FAILURE, no matter how well you spin it

 

[Todd33]

Voodoo5 was a great card.

Crossfire isn't a video card.

I voted 5800

 

[SilentRunning]

Where is the Matrox Parhelia in the poll?

Question mark added as per request.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Where is the Matrox Parhelia in the poll.

You forgot a question mark. Anyway, very true... That was a big flop as far as I am concerned.

 

[Kyanzes]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Where is the Matrox Parhelia in the poll?

Question mark added as per request.

At least it had the ability to hook up a bunch of monitors. No great performance there though.

 

[Corporate Thug]

5800 ultra prevailing!

news of future crossfire cards not being limited with the next gen prolly makes things a look a lot better on ATi behalf

 

[mooncancook]

I think it's too early to label CrossFire a failure. I think its purpose is to layout the dual GPU solution fundation for next gen card (R5xx and so on), but ATi has promised corssfire for X8xx so they have to deliver sth. I seriously doubt they'll make many X8xx master cards. If R520 sucks then it'll probably bring down crossfire. If R520 is great then I think Crossfire will do just fine.

I don't remember Voodoo 5 being a bad card. I remebered reviews were not bad, mostly around 4/5. It did gave up the performance crown, but it wasn't that bad either.

Savage was always in my mind a budget card anyway so i never had expectation for it.

So my vote goes to 5800U simply the high expectations it created. The reputation built up by the wonderful geForce 2,3,4 series were pretty much destroyed by the FX line. But great companies recover. I hope ATi does not repeat history with the R520.

btw anybody remember the Rendition Verite (or whatever it's called)?? It came out the the same time as Voodoo 1, and game screen shots looked decent. Whatever happened to them?

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
...and well be a hugh success. In that area.

I know, I know. Without some kind of IP addressing confirmation, many will not believe Turtle is Intelia. And, I know, there are some people that just can't spell. Not that "huge" should be a difficult word to spell, but here is a quick sampling of threads where Intelia wrote "hugh" instead of "huge":

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

And here are Turtle's:

1

2

3

I really don't know if Turtle's done anything to warrant a ban... and for that matter, I have no idea what Intelia did to get one, so I really can't comment on whether a ban was justified or not. But I would assume it's not okay for a banned member to create a new account. I guess mods are letting it be since whoever-it-is appears to be behaving civil, at least from the few threads I've read. But, seriously, anyone able to read should be able to see it's the same person.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW, my reasons for candidates:

V5- late, feature-less compared to GF2 and Radeon VIVO, strange SLI on a board card

5800 Ultra - couldn't be produced profitably, loudest OEM fan made it notorious

S3 Savage 2000- Supposed to compete with GF1, but when T&L enabled, fps went down. Not to mention texture irregularities and desktop issues. (e.g. areas of wallpaper "missing")

ATI Crossfire- high end solution launched with 16X12 at 60Hz limitation, master/slave cards, dongle

easily the v5. not only was it late, it didn't even contain features nvidia had in their previous generation of gfx cards (in fact the feature set barely even matched tnt1, let along geforce2). while their new fsaa was very nice (in that timeline), the rest of the features were largely seen as worthless by consumers. they couldn't even ship the v5 6000 as it had thermal issues and was too expensive to build. they couldn't launch their next generation product as v5 delays completely set back v6 (rampage iirc) development. it easily signified the end of 3dfx (tho admittedly that's an oversimplification of all the reasons that lead to their demise).

while nv30 was certainly a disappointment, the architecture still paved the way for nv35, which was a decent product, tho ultimately not nearly enough to compete with r300 - a card that took a HUGE jump from either company's previous products (gf4, radeon 8500).

i actually owned an s3 savage 2000 - was a decent card although not quite up to par with the competition. it certainly rocked in ut tho -- which reminds me of many discussions with BFG

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Gentlemen before you call crossfire a failer based on resolution .I think we need another vote on who has 19" or smaller LCDS and CRT's. Basing a products popularioty in this case. Will not come down to a limited res. It will come down to Ultra Performance which CrossFire has a lot of . This is a pure ENTHUSIESTS BOARD . This presentation of Crossfire is aimed directly at the Enthusiests and well be a hugh success. In that area.

Logic 101:

If this is a pure enthusiests board, then they would most likely have many other top of the line products, such as a Dell FPW 2405 or an FW900... Therefore, since the top end monitors support greater than 1600 X 1200 resolution, and CrossFire does not currently do greater than 1600 X 1200 @ 60hz, I think it is fair to say it was a "failure" given the context it is used in. Does that mean CrossFire will not sell any of their boards? Nope, but they certainly will not sell that many, until this limitation is fixed with the R520, and even then, we are not sure people will jump on CrossFire bandwagen if the cards are MSRP @ 599 and their performance isn't any greater than a 7800 GTX.

Who knows the future, but CrossFire THIS generation IS a FAILURE, no matter how well you spin it

You do have to go into a bit greater detail than that, however. Many enthusiasts with even the highest end video equipment are using high end LCD's: the 2001fp, 2005fpw and the 2405fpw.

For 2405fpw users, they're screwed since it doesn't go over 1600X1200. However, both 2005fpw and 2001fp users are fine since both resolutions are within the spec (note that 1680X1050 has fewer pixels than 1600X1200 so it is fine as well). And, as Turtle1 said, there are still some power users that use 17-19" LCD screens. Obviously proportionately less will buy something as exuberant and pricey as Crossfire, but we need to settle who Crossfile will and won't work for.

Basically, it goes like this:

2005fpw, 2001fp, any other 17"-20" LCD user - zero problems whatsoever.

2405fpw users: screwed, owners of CRT's > 19": forced to use 1600X1200 at a terrible refresh rate (but still might be tolerable for some people in games; certainly not in Windows, though) or a lower resolution. Definitely a massive problem for CRT users (compounded since 24" WS CRT's seem to have had a second wind with recent Ebay clearoffs). Not a problem for everyone interested in Crossfire, an admittedly niche idea already, but definitely a massive glaring problem.

Nonetheless, you still can't call Crossfire a failure yet. Will it be a failure? Most likely; most probably. But you still can't be 100% sure that it is a failure until it has actually come and gone...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Nonetheless, you still can't call Crossfire a failure yet. Will it be a failure? Most likely; most probably. But you still can't be 100% sure that it is a failure until it has actually come and gone...

:thumbsup:

 

[KeepItRed]

Originally posted by: Rollo

ATI Crossfire- high end solution launched with 16X12 at 60Hz limitation, master/slave cards, dongle

Negative. No more limitations.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Gentlemen before you call crossfire a failer based on resolution .I think we need another vote on who has 19" or smaller LCDS and CRT's. Basing a products popularioty in this case. Will not come down to a limited res. It will come down to Ultra Performance which CrossFire has a lot of . This is a pure ENTHUSIESTS BOARD . This presentation of Crossfire is aimed directly at the Enthusiests and well be a hugh success. In that area.

Logic 101:

If this is a pure enthusiests board, then they would most likely have many other top of the line products, such as a Dell FPW 2405 or an FW900... Therefore, since the top end monitors support greater than 1600 X 1200 resolution, and CrossFire does not currently do greater than 1600 X 1200 @ 60hz, I think it is fair to say it was a "failure" given the context it is used in. Does that mean CrossFire will not sell any of their boards? Nope, but they certainly will not sell that many, until this limitation is fixed with the R520, and even then, we are not sure people will jump on CrossFire bandwagen if the cards are MSRP @ 599 and their performance isn't any greater than a 7800 GTX.

Who knows the future, but CrossFire THIS generation IS a FAILURE, no matter how well you spin it

You do have to go into a bit greater detail than that, however. Many enthusiasts with even the highest end video equipment are using high end LCD's: the 2001fp, 2005fpw and the 2405fpw.

For 2405fpw users, they're screwed since it doesn't go over 1600X1200. However, both 2005fpw and 2001fp users are fine since both resolutions are within the spec (note that 1680X1050 has fewer pixels than 1600X1200 so it is fine as well). And, as Turtle1 said, there are still some power users that use 17-19" LCD screens. Obviously proportionately less will buy something as exuberant and pricey as Crossfire, but we need to settle who Crossfile will and won't work for.

Basically, it goes like this:

2005fpw, 2001fp, any other 17"-20" LCD user - zero problems whatsoever.

2405fpw users: screwed, owners of CRT's > 19": forced to use 1600X1200 at a terrible refresh rate (but still might be tolerable for some people in games; certainly not in Windows, though) or a lower resolution. Definitely a massive problem for CRT users (compounded since 24" WS CRT's seem to have had a second wind with recent Ebay clearoffs). Not a problem for everyone interested in Crossfire, an admittedly niche idea already, but definitely a massive glaring problem.

Nonetheless, you still can't call Crossfire a failure yet. Will it be a failure? Most likely; most probably. But you still can't be 100% sure that it is a failure until it has actually come and gone...

Well, obviously, I can call it a failure, because I did. If I was unable to call it a failure, then I wouldn't have called it a failure. But since I did, then it proves I can

On a side note, I do not like to get detailed in most posts, otherwise someone like Intelia will get lost and post a link proving my point, yet at the same time claiming it proves her off the wall point. LOL, whatever though

 

[Todd33]

Voodoo 5 wasn't "late", it came out about the same time as the GF2. It was only lacking Hardware T&L, and like today's SM3.0 fanboi's, the T&L crowd overhyped that feature. Hardware T&L of course wasn't really used until the next generation, far after the V5. The FSAA in the V5 was superior to everything on the market, the Nvidia solution blew hard. I had both cards and kept the V5 until the Ti 4x00 series was out and 3dfx was dead.

 

[quikah]

Not much of a history you have there.

The most spectacular failure in video card history is the Nvidia NV1. The most innovtive and bleeding edge video card of the time that almost completely destroyed Nvidia before they even got off the ground.

 

[sandorski]

Virge DX should be on the list

 

[hans030390]

i thought crossfire was supposed to be good.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Well, obviously, I can call it a failure, because I did. If I was unable to call it a failure, then I wouldn't have called it a failure. But since I did, then it proves I can

On a side note, I do not like to get detailed in most posts, otherwise someone like Intelia will get lost and post a link proving my point, yet at the same time claiming it proves her off the wall point. LOL, whatever though

Alright, I started this semantics debate, so I'll take the blame. But nevertheless, something cannot be correctly called a failure before it is even released. You're predicting it will be a failure (so am I, so are 99% of people), but you cannot know with absolute certainty that it will be.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

5800 Ultra sucked but it was not a total failure. It at least showed NV could compete with ATI even after getting super delayed.

Voodoo 5 was the ultra failure because:

1) They never got Voodoo 4 / mainstream card to take off so 3dfx was only thriving on enthusiasts. Once NV and ATI entered the scene they were obliterated
2) They tried the 25 micron tried and true fab process which backfired giving them a very hot chip.
3) That was it. 3dfx had no mainstream market to support them so they were bankrupt. No more Voodoo 5 6000.

Crossfire? It might've failed to do much, but its at echnology that will stay and ATI's far from dead.

 

[Turtle 1]

I think ATI did exactly what they wanted with this M/B . So a few have higher Res LCD'S very few. Crt,s is a differant story. Never the less as far as FPS. ATI well take the orb in single and dual card performance. Leaving the year 2005 owning the bench marks in most everthing . Thats what this release seems to be about. I don't like the res. problem but if your a after good performance in a 1280x1024 res . I have to think this is a nice board. I won't upgrade LCD until its safe to do so (Vista complaint) There are thousands upon thousands of people in the same boat. So the High res LCD thing don't cut it for crossfire bigdeal. I wouldn,t buy an $800 LCD thats not Vista HD complaint anyway. Its a disappointment but a failure no way.

 

[apoppin]

i vote for the DustBuster . . .

X-Fire is developing technology . . . slightly behind nVidia's SLI when it was first launched
[you guys still don't have to reboot your PC to turn it off and on do you?]

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Voodoo 5 wasn't "late", it came out about the same time as the GF2. It was only lacking Hardware T&L, and like today's SM3.0 fanboi's, the T&L crowd overhyped that feature. Hardware T&L of course wasn't really used until the next generation, far after the V5. The FSAA in the V5 was superior to everything on the market, the Nvidia solution blew hard. I had both cards and kept the V5 until the Ti 4x00 series was out and 3dfx was dead.

how can you say that? first, it missed the holiday season. some parts shipped in feb, only to have shipment stopped due to some issues, and didn't ship in volume until may of that year (2000). not only did nvidia's geforce256 go completely answered by 3dfx, when the v5 did finally came out, nvidia almost immedately released the geforce2.

Originally posted by: quikah
Not much of a history you have there.

The most spectacular failure in video card history is the Nvidia NV1. The most innovtive and bleeding edge video card of the time that almost completely destroyed Nvidia before they even got off the ground.

u mean nv1 was innovative and bleeding edge, correct?

Originally posted by: sandorski
Virge DX should be on the list

how about the voodoo rush? not that was an abomination

of course i don't know why rage fury maxx isn't included either (and frankly x-fire doesn't belong on this list -- not yet anyway)

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
(and frankly x-fire doesn't belong on this list -- not yet anyway)

Disagree- think of it- a $500 minimum solution limited to 16X12 at 60Hz. Worse yet think of the people who will buy the high end for $800-$1000 and are limited to 16X12 at 60Hz.

If that doesn't deserve a place in the hall of shame, I don't know what does. If you own a CRT, the current Crossfire is unusable at anything above 12X10. (and do we even know what kind of refresh rates it offers at that?) Think about that. More than $800 for 12X10.

A noisey fan pales in comparison to that, and people forget the fan only came on when you're gaming and presumably have your speakers kicking out game noise. Not to mention there were brands that had quiet fans like Leadtek and Gainward.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Rollo


Disagree- think of it- a $500 minimum solution limited to 16X12 at 60Hz. Worse yet think of the people who will buy the high end for $800-$1000 and are limited to 16X12 at 60Hz.

If that doesn't deserve a place in the hall of shame, I don't know what does. If you own a CRT, the current Crossfire is unusable at anything above 12X10. (and do we even know what kind of refresh rates it offers at that?) Think about that. More than $800 for 12X10.

A noisey fan pales in comparison to that, and people forget the fan only came on when you're gaming and presumably have your speakers kicking out game noise. Not to mention there were brands that had quiet fans like Leadtek and Gainward.

Oh well in 8 days or that will be taken care of, so should be a short walk in the hall of shame. :thumbsup:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
of course i don't know why rage fury maxx isn't included either (and frankly x-fire doesn't belong on this list -- not yet anyway)

Rollo liked the Rage MAXX . . .

that's why
:Q

it was an abomination that couldn't live up to ATI's promise to make it work with Win2K