Most spectacular failure in video card history

[Insomniak]

Rollo vs. BFG is likely going to become a grudge match as infamous as Alien vs. Predator.

 

[vss1980]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
VooDoo 5.

5800 Ultra and CrossFire are pretty bad, but neither one tanked a company.

Actually the Voodoo5 didn't kill 3dfx....... they got bought out and incorporated into nvidia.
I'm sure if nvidia didn't do a Microsoft and buy the competition 3dfx would have released the hardware they were developing (some of it has been seen in articles).

 

[KristopherKubicki]

Unquestionably Voodoo5. Not only did 3dfx dissapear, but so did Glide, and about half a dozen other things. 5800U was a very strong second though.

Anyone want an interesting story?

When Anand and I were going to check out the 5800U in Las Vegas for the first time, NVIDIA held the brief in the same hotel city, same hotel, same suite as the Voodoo5 brief a few years before. I kinda get the feeling that even the dates lined up.

Fortunately, R520's introduction was not in Caesar's Palace as was the V5/5800U.

Kristopher

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: vss1980
In the poll list I picked the FX 5800 for a few reasons. Mainly because for the amount of time nvidia spent designing, etc., it was rubbish to be honest - indeed if I remember rightly nvidia missed one of their 6 month cycles out coming up with that monster. Not only was it inefficient (power wise - huge fan making lots of noise to keep it cool) it wasn't as fast as the competition the majority of the time and worse still didn't have as good a implementation of the DX9 feature set - isn't it lacking FP32 or something for example??
All that from a year of gestation and worse still being released months after ATI released the R9700......

Actually the delays were worse than that even. You need to bear in mind that nV30 should have originally launched when GF4 actually launched (GF4 was initially developed as an "insurance policy" against problems with nV30 and beyond). People who criticise the nV30 for it lack of power fail to consider the timeframe it was initially intended to occupy. And, no, nV30 didn't lack FP32 - R300 did nV3x had a more complete DX9 feature set than R300, it also had less performance. nV3x was capable of running ATi's Ruby demo, which the 9700 could not.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: vss1980

Originally posted by: Insomniak
VooDoo 5.

5800 Ultra and CrossFire are pretty bad, but neither one tanked a company.

Actually the Voodoo5 didn't kill 3dfx....... they got bought out and incorporated into nvidia.
I'm sure if nvidia didn't do a Microsoft and buy the competition 3dfx would have released the hardware they were developing (some of it has been seen in articles).

I'm sorry, but you are VERY wrong! Incompetent management (both product wise and financially) is what did 3dfx in. They were about to go bankrupt, and took the decision to wind up the company. nVidia purchased their Intellectual Property. nVidia did NOT buy 3dfx out or take them over (or buy any cards, stock etc). 3dfx caused their own death.

 

[Aquila76]

I had to go with the S3 Savage because that was like coming out with a new and improved horse saddle just in time for the release of the Model-T. Also I owned one of those worthless cards for about 2 weeks then returned it for a geForce. The others I was able to research and avoid.

 

[OvErHeAtInG]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Rollo

The V5 was a "good" card, but the swansong of a great company. A last ditch effort to sell their original idea for the fourth time.

Kinda reminds me of the R520 aka R300 + SM 3.0 at this point. :laugh:

What?!? R520 is supposed to be a brand new core design. Stop spreading false rumors, or is there some reason you say this? Secondly, issuing revs on an existing design is not necessarily a bad thing, look at the 7800.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: OvErHeAtInG

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Rollo

The V5 was a "good" card, but the swansong of a great company. A last ditch effort to sell their original idea for the fourth time.

Kinda reminds me of the R520 aka R300 + SM 3.0 at this point. :laugh:

What?!? R520 is supposed to be a brand new core design. Stop spreading false rumors, or is there some reason you say this? Secondly, issuing revs on an existing design is not necessarily a bad thing, look at the 7800.

No, it isn't - it is a derivative of the R300 architecture (go search the Beyond3D forums for posts by ATi engineers on the subject if you don't believe it).

 

[OvErHeAtInG]

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
Unquestionably Voodoo5. Not only did 3dfx dissapear, but so did Glide, and about half a dozen other things. 5800U was a very strong second though.

Anyone want an interesting story?

When Anand and I were going to check out the 5800U in Las Vegas for the first time, NVIDIA held the brief in the same hotel city, same hotel, same suite as the Voodoo5 brief a few years before. I kinda get the feeling that even the dates lined up.

Fortunately, R520's introduction was not in Caesar's Palace as was the V5/5800U.

Kristopher

That is a funny story... remind me not to stay at Caesar's Palace... not that I ever plan to go to Vegas again *shudder*

Was? R520's introduction was? Stop teasing us, you silly man!

 

[OvErHeAtInG]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: OvErHeAtInG

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Rollo

The V5 was a "good" card, but the swansong of a great company. A last ditch effort to sell their original idea for the fourth time.

Kinda reminds me of the R520 aka R300 + SM 3.0 at this point. :laugh:

What?!? R520 is supposed to be a brand new core design. Stop spreading false rumors, or is there some reason you say this? Secondly, issuing revs on an existing design is not necessarily a bad thing, look at the 7800.

No, it isn't - it is a derivative of the R300 architecture (go search the Beyond3D forums for posts by ATi engineers on the subject if you don't believe it).

Well then. My bad.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i vote for the DustBuster . . .

X-Fire is developing technology . . . slightly behind nVidia's SLI when it was first launched
[you guys still don't have to reboot your PC to turn it off and on do you?]

Slightly behind? Uhhh... Based on what criteria? It is far behind when comparing to SLI early days.

Why would you turn it off and on? Why not just leave it on? I do not see the problem here, maybe you could elaberate.

 

[apoppin]

read my replies to Rollo [several posts after the one you quote]. . . i don't feel like C&P'ing

 

[vss1980]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: vss1980

Originally posted by: Insomniak
VooDoo 5.

5800 Ultra and CrossFire are pretty bad, but neither one tanked a company.

Actually the Voodoo5 didn't kill 3dfx....... they got bought out and incorporated into nvidia.
I'm sure if nvidia didn't do a Microsoft and buy the competition 3dfx would have released the hardware they were developing (some of it has been seen in articles).

I'm sorry, but you are VERY wrong! Incompetent management (both product wise and financially) is what did 3dfx in. They were about to go bankrupt, and took the decision to wind up the company. nVidia purchased their Intellectual Property. nVidia did NOT buy 3dfx out or take them over (or buy any cards, stock etc). 3dfx caused their own death.

Hmmm, fair enough. At the time I was always under the impression that despite their loosing in the marketplace and being weak, they would have been able to keep going. Yep, the management decisions were poor at times. The idea of being the sole manufacturer and distributor of their chips/cards was a mistake in todays environment. Even ATI changed tack with the Radeon but 3dfx management had their minds made up.

 

[vss1980]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i vote for the DustBuster . . .

X-Fire is developing technology . . . slightly behind nVidia's SLI when it was first launched
[you guys still don't have to reboot your PC to turn it off and on do you?]

Slightly behind? Uhhh... Based on what criteria? It is far behind when comparing to SLI early days.

SLI back in 3dfx time was a completely different technology. New SLI has a completely different meaning and just the initials are what relates the two other than the idea of distributed processing load.

If you want to be really picky about it, nvidia are very late to the 'SLI' party - even ATI had a 2 GPU solution back with the ATI Rage MAXX cards which used AFR to split the load. Crossfire is a new tech and is purely around to address the demand of the few - time wasted if you want my honest opinion (as is SLI to some degree) - they'd be better off figuring out how to pack as much punch per card (be it with 2 or more GPU's, multi-core GPU's, etc.) rather than how many cards they can fit in one system.
The average enthusiast will and should be far happier taking the option of going for the fastest best 1 card solution and upgrading when the next gen comes around.

 

[remagavon]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
VooDoo 5.

5800 Ultra and CrossFire are pretty bad, but neither one tanked a company.

The voodoo3 tanked 3dfx, because it was very late to market due to them buying up a manufacturing company, and making their own in house graphics cards. This put a completely unnecessary financial strain on the company which was already mismanaged horribly.

3dfx was bought out by December of 2000, and they launched their VSA-100 line in July of that same year. Talks must have been going on between nVidia and 3dfx for at lesat a few months, so basically a month or two after launch they decided to ciut their losses and sell their assets while they were still valuable.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

No, it isn't - it is a derivative of the R300 architecture (go search the Beyond3D forums for posts by ATi engineers on the subject if you don't believe it).

I'd guess your statement is innacurate and no, I'm not going to go searching to find proof of your statement. That's your job. Certain things you just have to back up with a link if you want folks to accept it as fact. We already know of at least two significant architecture changes, 512-bit ringbus and addition of SM3 and I doubt that the engineers ever said it was just a derivative of R300.

 

[carlosd]

In general all the FX line is crap

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: vss1980

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i vote for the DustBuster . . .

X-Fire is developing technology . . . slightly behind nVidia's SLI when it was first launched
[you guys still don't have to reboot your PC to turn it off and on do you?]

Slightly behind? Uhhh... Based on what criteria? It is far behind when comparing to SLI early days.

SLI back in 3dfx time was a completely different technology. New SLI has a completely different meaning and just the initials are what relates the two other than the idea of distributed processing load.

If you want to be really picky about it, nvidia are very late to the 'SLI' party - even ATI had a 2 GPU solution back with the ATI Rage MAXX cards which used AFR to split the load. Crossfire is a new tech and is purely around to address the demand of the few - time wasted if you want my honest opinion (as is SLI to some degree) - they'd be better off figuring out how to pack as much punch per card (be it with 2 or more GPU's, multi-core GPU's, etc.) rather than how many cards they can fit in one system.
The average enthusiast will and should be far happier taking the option of going for the fastest best 1 card solution and upgrading when the next gen comes around.

I am a little bit lost by your post, I mean, trying to figure out the direction you are coming from.

Anyway, when I referred to SLI early days, I meant nVidia's SLI, not SLI from 6-7? years ago. Hard to remember back that far... It seems like ages ago.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: vss1980

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i vote for the DustBuster . . .

X-Fire is developing technology . . . slightly behind nVidia's SLI when it was first launched
[you guys still don't have to reboot your PC to turn it off and on do you?]

Slightly behind? Uhhh... Based on what criteria? It is far behind when comparing to SLI early days.

SLI back in 3dfx time was a completely different technology. New SLI has a completely different meaning and just the initials are what relates the two other than the idea of distributed processing load.

If you want to be really picky about it, nvidia are very late to the 'SLI' party - even ATI had a 2 GPU solution back with the ATI Rage MAXX cards which used AFR to split the load. Crossfire is a new tech and is purely around to address the demand of the few - time wasted if you want my honest opinion (as is SLI to some degree) - they'd be better off figuring out how to pack as much punch per card (be it with 2 or more GPU's, multi-core GPU's, etc.) rather than how many cards they can fit in one system.
The average enthusiast will and should be far happier taking the option of going for the fastest best 1 card solution and upgrading when the next gen comes around.

I am a little bit lost by your post, I mean, trying to figure out the direction you are coming from.

Anyway, when I referred to SLI early days, I meant nVidia's SLI, not SLI from 6-7? years ago. Hard to remember back that far... It seems like ages ago.

i see my name still quoted . . . you DID read my further posts to Rollo, AA777?

nVidia's SLI had "issues" when it was first launched which are still being addressed [and will continue to be addressed thru SLI2]. . . ATI's xFire for the x800 series has "issues" which are being addressed by r520's Xfire . . .

i am VERY impressed that ATI - despite being WAY behind nVidia [nVidia has been working on SLI for years] - has nearly managed to "catch up" in less than a year . . . who knows, ATI's Xfire may well surpass SLI2 with r520 or r580. :Q

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: dug777
where's the XGI Volari V8 duo?

incidentally, if you have one i'll buy it off you right now

I do, and you can't have it.

I voted Voodoo.

The 5800U wasn't the failure that some of you people are making it out to be. Just because it was a dustbuster, didn't mean it had super poor performance (but we all do know it's DX9 performance is lacking).

BTW, 5200/5600/5800 = 1 core revision. 5700/5900/5950 different one, which is why they performed better.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: vss1980

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i vote for the DustBuster . . .

X-Fire is developing technology . . . slightly behind nVidia's SLI when it was first launched
[you guys still don't have to reboot your PC to turn it off and on do you?]

Slightly behind? Uhhh... Based on what criteria? It is far behind when comparing to SLI early days.

SLI back in 3dfx time was a completely different technology. New SLI has a completely different meaning and just the initials are what relates the two other than the idea of distributed processing load.

If you want to be really picky about it, nvidia are very late to the 'SLI' party - even ATI had a 2 GPU solution back with the ATI Rage MAXX cards which used AFR to split the load. Crossfire is a new tech and is purely around to address the demand of the few - time wasted if you want my honest opinion (as is SLI to some degree) - they'd be better off figuring out how to pack as much punch per card (be it with 2 or more GPU's, multi-core GPU's, etc.) rather than how many cards they can fit in one system.
The average enthusiast will and should be far happier taking the option of going for the fastest best 1 card solution and upgrading when the next gen comes around.

I am a little bit lost by your post, I mean, trying to figure out the direction you are coming from.

Anyway, when I referred to SLI early days, I meant nVidia's SLI, not SLI from 6-7? years ago. Hard to remember back that far... It seems like ages ago.

i see my name still quoted . . . you DID read my further posts to Rollo, AA777?

nVidia's SLI had "issues" when it was first launched which are still being addressed [and will continue to be addressed thru SLI2]. . . ATI's xFire for the x800 series has "issues" which are being addressed by r520's Xfire . . .

i am VERY impressed that ATI - despite being WAY behind nVidia [nVidia has been working on SLI for years] - has nearly managed to "catch up" in less than a year . . . who knows, ATI's Xfire may well surpass SLI2 with r520 or r580. :Q

Anything is possible, I guess. Yes, I did read. I just have not looked at this thread in a while and I wanted to respond to your point, specifically.

I wouldn't say they have nearly caught up either, both of your terms "slightly behind" and "almost caught up" are stretching it quite a bit...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
[
Anything is possible, I guess. Yes, I did read. I just have not looked at this thread in a while and I wanted to respond to your point, specifically.

I wouldn't say they have nearly caught up either, both of your terms "slightly behind" and "almost caught up" are stretching it quite a bit...

except for the 60hz limitation - ONLY for the x800 series, NOT the r520s - how is ATI "way behind" nVidia's SLI?

edited

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
[
Anything is possible, I guess. Yes, I did read. I just have not looked at this thread in a while and I wanted to respond to your point, specifically.

I wouldn't say they have nearly caught up either, both of your terms "slightly behind" and "almost caught up" are stretching it quite a bit...

except for the 60hz limitation - ONLY for the x800 series, NOT the r520s - how is ATI "way behind" nVidia's SLI?

edited

No problem with the quotes... Anyway, I have to note, that it is a big exception! Also 1600 X 1200 is a big exception too! If we take both of those out? Then it is litterally, on par with SLI. But if you notice, a few posts back I think in this thread? I had noted that the current CrossFire is a failure, not the future version of it. As it stands now, CrossFire really is a stinker... When the R520 is released on the shelves on retail stores and working properly, then I will acknowledge CrossFire as a valid competitor.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
[
Anything is possible, I guess. Yes, I did read. I just have not looked at this thread in a while and I wanted to respond to your point, specifically.

I wouldn't say they have nearly caught up either, both of your terms "slightly behind" and "almost caught up" are stretching it quite a bit...

except for the 60hz limitation - ONLY for the x800 series, NOT the r520s - how is ATI "way behind" nVidia's SLI?

edited

No problem with the quotes... Anyway, I have to note, that it is a big exception! Also 1600 X 1200 is a big exception too! If we take both of those out? Then it is litterally, on par with SLI. But if you notice, a few posts back I think in this thread? I had noted that the current CrossFire is a failure, not the future version of it. As it stands now, CrossFire really is a stinker... When the R520 is released on the shelves on retail stores and working properly, then I will acknowledge CrossFire as a valid competitor.

as it stands now?
[unless i'm mistaken there is NO Xfire available - on the shelves on retail stores - for x800 OR r520 yet}

well wait a few days :Q
:roll:
[we'll see if ATI 'caught up' with r520's xfire]


and i'm off to work

aloha


edit: THIS xfire is ATI's belated promise to CURRENT x800 owners . . .

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
[
Anything is possible, I guess. Yes, I did read. I just have not looked at this thread in a while and I wanted to respond to your point, specifically.

I wouldn't say they have nearly caught up either, both of your terms "slightly behind" and "almost caught up" are stretching it quite a bit...

except for the 60hz limitation - ONLY for the x800 series, NOT the r520s - how is ATI "way behind" nVidia's SLI?

edited

No problem with the quotes... Anyway, I have to note, that it is a big exception! Also 1600 X 1200 is a big exception too! If we take both of those out? Then it is litterally, on par with SLI. But if you notice, a few posts back I think in this thread? I had noted that the current CrossFire is a failure, not the future version of it. As it stands now, CrossFire really is a stinker... When the R520 is released on the shelves on retail stores and working properly, then I will acknowledge CrossFire as a valid competitor.

as it stands now?
[unless i'm mistaken there is NO Xfire available - for x800 OR r520 yet}

well wait a few days :Q
:roll:
[we'll see if they caught up with r520's xfire]


and i'm off to work

aloha


edit: THIS xfire is ATI's belated promise to CURRENT x800 owners . . .

Call it a paper launch if you want... But if ATI's belated promise of CrossFire to the X800 owners was this LATE!!! Holy balls batman! How long will it be for them to make good on the promise that CrossFire can now do over 1600 X 1200 and more than 60 Hz with the R520? I guess we are just sitting here waiting and waiting and waiting, while ATI delays and delays. This is bad for us, we need ATI to get back on their feet so they can drive down the prices of the cards and release new tech.