Most underrated and most overrated developers

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Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Overrated: Bioware. Bioware big time. Most all bioware games I've played are on the surface deep, but ultimately are *very* shallow. Case in point is the conversation system in Mass Effect games, which gives the illusion of choice but in reality doesn't allow any real choice, and so ends up just being busywork.

Bioware post-EA took a major slide, but remember Mass Effect was an action game first. It wasn't supposed to have the depth of Baldur's Gate.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Overrated: Gas Powered Games and Lionhead Studios: both companies weren't able to provide a single game that is not boring by its stereotypes, shallowness and a very minimalistic game options (Fable trilogy for example is a very linear and shallow thing, with all this marriage, property stuff being only a cosmetic thing that doesn't affect the game play at all) offering no diversity or any advanced options to choose from when it comes to their "rpg elements".

And Molyneux has a big mouth full of promises of how something will be awesome and original, yet he always delivers the same underwhelming experience.

It's hard to choose an underrated company for me. Most of my favourites are non-existant. One of the things I don't like about indie retro is, that they do not realize that back then, when the "retro" they follow was born, it was something that broadened and deepened the genres, adding new possibilities and new ways of a video game experience. Yet most of these indie games are just parasiting on the concept that was fresh 15-20 years ago, but are actually not pushing the genre anywhere now. + Writing isn't as strong as it was back then.


And one more thing about Blizzard. I am not a fanboy, but you may dislike their games, I can understand that (even I don't like all their stuff), but they are always able to publish polished material, not something half-baked (even though I don't know about D3, I've never tried it) in both concept and design and this is a rare commodity in this industry full of bugs, glitches, poor ideas and half-made concepts. And even if it doesn't look like it, since they aim for the mainstream audience, they still put a little bit of innovation in their games which is not always a good thing, but it's there.

This I really agree with. I remember trying the original total annihilation and being...meh'd. Lionhead probably deserves it too.

I've never thought of Blizz as overrated. Even Diablo 3. Granted, I wasn't a Diablo 2 fan, but Diablo 3 was thoroughly enjoyable for me the *one* time I played through it.

Another dev that is overrated: stardock. Galactic civilizations is not impressive at all to me. Was basically civilization in space. Not at all interesting.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
I'm gonna toss out Stardock as Underrated. They put out very good games and in my experience, have unmatched customer service.

Consider the story of Elemental: so much hype and released way too early as a huge buggy dud. The first real disaster for them. But rather than just step away and ignore that game, they worked on it for another 2 years, turned it into Fallen Enchantress and now Legendary Heroes, and on top of that, gave both of these away free to anyone that bought the original Elemental.

I haven't heard of anything like that from any other studio.

Oh yeah Stardock! They gave us sins and made windows 8 usable. Yeah defo underrated :thumbsup:
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
don't think Blizzard is overrated anymore except by Blizzard fanatics

think most people have been seeing Blizzard's decrease in game quality

I think Blizzard is just cursed by its past release of superior games

if Diablo 3 or SC2 were released by a previously unknown developer, the games would be much more well received and the flaws of the games would be more tolerated / accepted

This is so very true I feel.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
I disagree completely. Say what you will about Blizzard now, but IMHO they were the best at what they were doing 9-10 years ago and prior to that. WC III and TFT were such great games, I wasted many nights playing them - and I still find WC3 more enjoyable than SC2 because of the dynamics that heroes added. The lore was also amazing. I remember reading through the entire WC III manual just to catch up on the story, and what a great story it was.

I don't think they can even do a RTS follow-up to WC3 anymore, all of the most interesting villains from the warcraft universe are dead now thanks to world of warcraft.

Actually a game can always add villians. Wouldn't be that hard. And it could be fallen heroes, or villians that were nobodies, or even yet there is still the whole burning Legion.

Issue is, with success of WoW I don't see the story ever dropping back onto an RTS for this story/lore.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
No...the game stagnated because of Microsoft not bungie. Trust me there is a reason bungie left Microsoft. They could have asked to stay but did not. Most of the engine and mechanics came from bungie. There were a few employees who stayed on to continue working on it before halo 4 released. Bungie wanted to diversify and try different things, Microsoft just wanted to keep pumping out halo. For proof just look at what Microsoft did to Rare.

Haha very very true.

I'm not even sure why MS wanted Halo 4 so bad. Bungie working on a new series would have gained the EXACT same following Halo would regardless of what it was. Game developer talent is stifled by this silly "Pump out the franchise" thing because we're in a sequel day and age where no one wants to take risks.

If the market demanded more innovation we'd see better more interesting things come out. Instead, everyone will hop on a sequel even if it's the 10th one. TV Shows, Movies, Games, all suffer from this. Music kind of does too, except with music, we recycle the artists to keep things "new and hip!"
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
Haha very very true.

I'm not even sure why MS wanted Halo 4 so bad. Bungie working on a new series would have gained the EXACT same following Halo would regardless of what it was. Game developer talent is stifled by this silly "Pump out the franchise" thing because we're in a sequel day and age where no one wants to take risks.

If the market demanded more innovation we'd see better more interesting things come out. Instead, everyone will hop on a sequel even if it's the 10th one. TV Shows, Movies, Games, all suffer from this. Music kind of does too, except with music, we recycle the artists to keep things "new and hip!"

As true as this is, there comes a point when innovation cannot grow beyond a small percent, because when everything has been tried or done, there is no place to go that will be "new". And we are not far off from such a point.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,950
4
0
The guys at ID are technical geniuses who can't make a good game in the modern era. The days of arena shooters are over at this point. That is about all they know. They blundered with Rage by using ultra low resolution textures that by any standard looked horrible. The technical aspects of their engine and mega textures in general is sound, implementing it into a game without it looking terrible is another thing.

Largely because of an exodus of designers. Carmack being left at the head of the table with Hollenshead was a bad idea, particularly because all Carmack wants to do is explore the technical aspect of things.

Oh, and it's id, not Id or ID.

On that note, underrated developers - Raven Software and Ritual Entertainment.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
I'd place CD Projekt Red in the underrated category. I think that being PC-centric has just kept them off the gaming-at-large radar.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
As true as this is, there comes a point when innovation cannot grow beyond a small percent, because when everything has been tried or done, there is no place to go that will be "new". And we are not far off from such a point.

Yep...I think traditional RPGs can have a comeback with the right game.

Actually a lot of the better games are basically updates and refreshes of older games.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
Yep...I think traditional RPGs can have a comeback with the right game.

Actually a lot of the better games are basically updates and refreshes of older games.

Imagine how awesome it would be if games like FF IV/FF VI were made for PS4 level console graphics, extended with extra side stories and more along with voice actors and so on.

Some games could definitely make a comeback. But at this time, games just are not innovated period anymore.

Oh look yet another FPS. . .
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,820
29,571
146
Imagine how awesome it would be if games like FF IV/FF VI were made for PS4 level console graphics, extended with extra side stories and more along with voice actors and so on.

Some games could definitely make a comeback. But at this time, games just are not innovated period anymore.

Oh look yet another FPS. . .

I wanna see an isometric, turn-based Shadow Run on PC or PS4.

Or Syndicate, goddamnit! No--not that recent crap. REAL Syndicate.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Bioware post-EA took a major slide, but remember Mass Effect was an action game first. It wasn't supposed to have the depth of Baldur's Gate.

No, Mass Effect was not an action game first. In fact, most ME fans complain that ME2 streamlined it too much.

I actually expect true RPG games to really allow for lots of (potentially game-breaking) choice.

I do agree that they seem to have taken a major slide after the release of Mass Effect. Was not a fan of the Dragon Age series much. But I thoroughly enjoyed KOTOR and Jade Empire.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
No, Mass Effect was not an action game first. In fact, most ME fans complain that ME2 streamlined it too much..

Mass Effect is an FPS with an over the shoulder camera. I personally subscribe to the idea that being an RPG is more about the story/characters/lore than anything else but the very first time I set foot on Eden Prime in ME1 I literally thought to myself "What the hell? This is just a shooter? Weird."

I was actually expecting turnbased or something like XCOM:EU even (in retrospect that was silly, Bioware has never done turnbased) but ultimately was surprised it was 'just' a shooter. And not a very good one at that. The gameplay in it was easily the worst of the series. 2 and 3 are both significantly ahead of 1 imo, with 3 edging out 2 generally.
 

AFurryReptile

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2006
1,998
1
76
FromSoftware is hugely underrated. Sure, their port of Dark Souls to the PC was godawful, but the game itself is amazing. I don't think that I've ever played a more atmospheric, engaging game.
 

JoetheLion

Senior member
Nov 8, 2012
392
2
81
Seriously, you think Supreme Commander was "boring," shallow and minimalistic? Far from it, compared very well to Total Annihilation. Dungeon Siege was great as a "Diablo" clone. I do have the non-original Fable games as some of the worst I've played.

Outside of TA, SC and DS (all the first in their "series,") they've been misses. Then again, TA:K was made after Taylor left Cavedog, DS2 was done by Lambert and was the last DS game made by GPG.

I put Talor at the same place I put American McGee - great designers who have awesome concepts that are either hit or miss. When they miss, it's not by much - and when they hit it, they hit big.

Dungeon Siege is one of the biggest disappointments I ever had when it comes to video games. I was really anticipating the game, I liked the screenshots, showing forest and caves that look like forests and caves when it came to density or size of trees, rocks and and the look of the area. But then the game came. It was one of the dumbest games I've ever played. And it's hard to say that I played it, because basically the game played itself. They took all the elements that made Diablo fun, and threw them out of the window. The fighting was automatic, leveling up was automatic, story was almost non-present, storyteller was irritating and making the main "redneck" character looking even dumber than he was and the whole game design was a one railway through several locations. I must say, this is the only game with which I was so bored that I've fallen asleep while playing. You know, it's the irony to call it action RPG when the action is automatic, very static and unfun while the RPG elements are almost non-present.

Supreme Commander was boring, the strategy and the concept was really primitive in singleplayer relying on a big scale and big units instead of variability in missions or tactics. Any Westwood RTS was far better than this. Even if Westwood only upgraded and recycled the same concept, the story and variability in missions made it something special while Supreme Commander is something easily forgettable. I've even tried Demigod, but that was a very cheap and desperate take on DotA and LoL.

Scrapland was the only game of American McGee, that I've played. I tried out the demo and I liked it - it look like a minimalistic futuristic GTA. But when I got the full game, the game showed all the tricks (which wasn't much) and was basically repeating them with a great insolence over and over again, just to make the game last longer. Not to mention that the final plot twist was dumb and illogical. So I was having fun 1-2 hours and then I just suffered through the game and its horrible tempo.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
I'd place CD Projekt Red in the underrated category. I think that being PC-centric has just kept them off the gaming-at-large radar.


I don't know if they're underrated as much as they're just not very prolific, as they appear to be rated very highly by most critics.

Their next couple of projekts might elevate them a little more into the spotlight, though (Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077).
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Bethesda isnt overrated.
They may not makes games you like, but they have a small line of quality titles which is a hell of a lot better than EA and Ubi.

Blizzard has focused too much on multiplayer (thanks to the retarded success of WoW) and both SC2 and D3 arent as much fun as they should have been.

Cavedog and Iron Lore were so underrated they went out of business, which is a damn shame.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Bethesda creates giant open worlds that are buggy and devoid of life and charm. Their quests and stories are usually so weak that you have more fun running around picking flowers.

What makes Bethesda games GREAT is mods.

I like Bethesda's games, but they are not at the level main stream gaming would have you believe they are.
 

ad3pt7

Member
Mar 7, 2013
37
0
16
Underrated: 4A Games, CD Projekt RED.

Overrated: Infinity Ward, Blizzard.

Don't get me wrong, I've had my fair share of fun with the Call of Duty games that IW has made, and even the Treyarch titles, but I feel that it's always been a cash grab with no real push towards improved graphics, gameplay, map design and so on. Now I know it's mainly a console title, which I can understand and it's still a fun title I just find it overrated.

I currently play World of Warcraft, and enjoyed Starcraft and Diablo, however I think Blizzard is a little overrated. There's something about World of Warcraft that just seems to do the MMORPG style right, which I think is why it's still so successful. I'd honestly just like to see them branch out a little bit more and test new waters. WoW has been a little stale as of late, but I'd like to see them be a little more pushy towards new technology in their games, but I'm definitely glad they're working on Titan. Hopefully they really put in a ton of work in this title to blow everyone away.

In terms of 4A Games and CD Projekt Red, I think they're amazing developers considering the smaller budgets they work with, and still being able to put out fantastically made games. I had a blast on Metro 2033 and Last Light, and just by seeing the differences in Witcher 1 compared to 2 I was blown away by how much the game had improved.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
I think Irrational is probably one of the more underrated studios.

There aren't many developers who really deliver when it comes to a great SP experience, but I think Irrational has produced some real gems (having dev'd System Shock 2, BioShock, and BioShock Infinite).

I think my regard for developers in large part depends on how much effort they put into creating memorable characters, AI scripting, and environment art.

I think AI scripting is a fascinating subject. I did a research paper on it in college and dug through a lot of scripts in CryEngine2 in the process (all of their AI scripts are available to view....nice!).

I think better AI is a gaming frontier where there is a lot more to pioneer. I just played through BioShock Infinite recently, and I was extremely impressed with how much scripting effort went into giving Elizabeth natural behaviors. Compare that with something like a companion in Skyrim, who is constantly getting in the way, blocking entrances, saying the same stupid thing over and over.....things that never happen in Infinite, because they did such a good job with navigation and anchor points (hell....they spent 2 weeks scripting the beach scene where Elizabeth skipped rocks).

I believe the idea that "AI is too easy....that's why I prefer playing against real people" is a fallacy, mainly because it is impossible to be better than a computer that has 100% accuracy and can react to your user input in milliseconds. The real art is getting this machine to be fallible in non-patternistic ways. To react convincingly like a human would. That's what I want to see in a game....better behaviors.
 
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