Motherboard suggestions please?

[DarkRogue]

Hello,

I'm busy tearing my hair out as I've been reading reviews 'til my eyes bleed and I still can't decide on what motherboard to get. I'm trying to order parts for my next PC in the next few days and the mobo is one of the last (and biggest) components I have yet to decide on.

E8400 support is a must, since that is what I'll be using. SLI/crossfire is pointless for me as I'm going with a single-card 8800GT. I'll be OCing the CPU to 400FSB and using DDR2 800.
From my previous thread asking between the 780i and X38, it seems it was most logical for me to choose ... P35 lol. So I've been looking at P35 boards, but no idea what manufacturer to go with. I've had good experiences with my Asus board, but Gigabyte also seems to be well-received.

I'm just not sure what to choose since every board has some negative reviews about one thing or another.

Thanks in advance

 

[lopri]

If I were in the market for a P35, my choice would be:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813186133

I have heard many good things about this board, and even the NewEgg reviews are great. Of course NewEgg user reviews should be taken as a grain of salt, but getting perfect 5 star ratings from all users isn't an easy feat for a moterboard.

AnandTech also liked Abit IP35-Pro and P5K-Deluxe as well. But the above Foxconn board looks to be an overall winner. Just make sure you flash the board with the latest or known good BIOS.

 

[MTDEW]

I'm just not sure what to choose since every board has some negative reviews about one thing or another.

Yes, they ALL seem to have good and bad points.
Its always like that.....and i always wish i could "combine" all the good features into one board and have that one.

Do you need raid support?

I'll be OCing the CPU to 400FSB and using DDR2 800.

I bet once you get it, you overclock it higher than 3.6ghz... :thumbsup:

Anyway, all the p35 boards will do 400fsb quite easily, so it really comes down to getting a board with features you like (or getting the one with the least bad "quirks" you can tolerate).

Im running the Abit IP35-E with my 8400 @ 4ghz(9x445), so i like the Abit board, but ive also had great Asus and Gigabyte mobo's so it really comes down to preference to features.

I can tell you the "quirk" of the Abit IP35-E is that temp readings dont seem 100% accurate with current bios's and they are working on a fix , but that seems to be the case with all the other p35 boards and the e8400's also.

 

[DarkRogue]

Thanks for the reply, how are Foxconn boards in general though?
I've heard good things about Asus and Gigabyte but Foxconn is new to me.

MTDEW, maybe some day we'll be able to customize our motherboards pre-fabrication lol, but until then...
I don't need RAID support, I just shove drives in as it will fit.
As far as features go, I avoided listing them in the beginning because I didn't want to get too specific, but if it comes with dual ethernet ports, that would be a nice plus. At least 1 PATA for legacy devices but every board as at least 1 it seems. After that, it's as many SATA ports as possible, and a good number of USB/Firewire ports. eSATA isn't necessary but if it's there that's fine.

Really, it's just that even when I look at solely Asus or Gigabyte boards, they all seem the same yet have vastly different reviews, so I have no idea what is going on.
Budget is also another factor, ideally I'd rather not shell out over 200 for this, 100-200 is fine, but I'll give a bit over 200 if it's /really/ worth it.

 

[DanMTB]

I just recommended this board in another post as well.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813130098

Well reviewed a few months back here, although a bit high voltage on RAM when overclocking

I bought this board for my new rig and have been happy with its performance so far, although not OC'd at the moment.

dh

 

[DarkRogue]

With that last one, one of the first Newegg reviews says

Cons: Partly, the placement of 2 of the 5 usb ports on the motherboard. I can't access them when I install the S1 cooler on my 8800GT. Yes, I even tried the angle sata cable. For this, the rating should have been 4.5 stars since it's not totally MSI's fault.

That seems to mean there are only 3 accessible USB ports, then.. (Yes, I am planning on using an Accelero S1/S2 with my 8800GT.)

It might be a deal breaker for me if that's the case since I have 4-5 USB devices, and I'd like some expansion room.

 

[DarkRogue]

On closer inspection, it seems some top rated mobos on newegg have dual ethernet ports, but they are both DFI mobos. I don't know anything about the company though.. any thoughts on them?

Kind of expensive though..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813136039
Just barely fits into my budget.
One of the customers commented that it needs a BIOS update to recognize the E8400's though.. that's not good considering I don't have another LGA775 proc lying around.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813136037
This one is $240..ouch.

I'm not entirely sure I need dual ethernet though, I have a router and a switch lying around. I suppose the only real use for dual ethernets is to bridge a connection with my PC?
That might only be useful if I plan on making my own router or a gateway with it. My Asus A7N8X Deluxe already has dual ethernets and I can re-use that for that purpose I think.

...I might be back at square one lol.

 

[evident]

just get a gigabyte ep35-ds3r. they are cheap and should do everything you ask. need another ethernet? just pop in a pci lan card

 

[lopri]

Those two boards are nearly identical. The more expensive one came out first with some extra stuff (most notably extended heat pipe cooling system). Later DFI introduced a somewhat cut-down version, but the board itself is probably the same. Not everyone wants heat pipe hanging out of a case that can break things, and if that saves money for both the manufacturer and customers, then why not.

DFI boards are generally regarded as one of the highest quality and most tweakable boards. I don't think you can go wrong with the boards you linked if the prices aren't the issue. Only thing that I'd fault is the layout is such that it's possible the bottom half of the board will be empty and unused unless you use lots of add-in cards. And if you're not familiar with DFI BIOS, it can be quite intimidating when you first attempt to overclock.

 

[DarkRogue]

Here's a quick question, I'm browsing through the mobos on Newegg and they list a "Memory standard."
What is this? If it says DDR2 1066, does that mean I can't use DDR2 800 because it's not supported?

 

[lopri]

No. DDR2 ratings are backward compatible. You can think of DDR2-1066 as 'up to DDR2-1066' and so on. It is not always the smartest to purchase the highest speed memory, however. You also want to look at the rated voltages. Memory manufacturers try to squeeze money out of enthusiasts, so it's not uncommon to see high memory speed advertised (but voltage requirement somewhere hidden). So when you see two seemingly different sticks as below:

Product A: DDR2-800 / CL5 / 1.8V
Product B: DDR2-1000 / CL5 / 2.1V

Chances are the product B is just an overclocked product A. (i.e. same stuff)

However, it should also be noted that for the product B, manufacturer is guaranteeing 1000MHz speed. While the product A is very likely to behave same as the product B, it is NOT guaranteed. So by purchasing product B (likely with price premium), you kind of get a peace of mind knowing that manufacturer tested the sticks at DDR2-1000 albeit at higher voltage.

 

[toadeater]

Originally posted by: DarkRogue
Thanks for the reply, how are Foxconn boards in general though?
I've heard good things about Asus and Gigabyte but Foxconn is new to me.

"Foxconn produces the Mac mini, the iPod and the iPhone for Apple Computer; Intel-branded motherboards for Intel Corp.; various orders for American computer retailers Dell, Inc. and Hewlett Packard; the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 for Sony; the Wii for Nintendo;the Xbox 360 for Microsoft, cell phones for Motorola, and Amazon Kindle."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn

Aside from that, the Foxconn Mars is the start of their "enthusiast" line of products. Seems to be going well so far. I'd buy one but it's out of my budget.

 

[DarkRogue]

Iopri, just to make sure, that explanation was about what mobo's specify as their memory standard (standard memory used?) right?
I know a DDR2 stick can run at a slower speed than it's rated to, but it's not guaranteed to run overclocked any higher.

My question was about the motherboard spec that actively lists its "memory standard" and while the 1066 being the max speed supported would make sense, I'm confused because most of the mobos explicitly go out of their way to list separate DDR2 speeds it says is "standard."

For example, from browsing quickly last night, I came across these two which were fairly well received by Newegg reviews and had specs I liked:
http://www.newegg.com/product/...x?item=N82E16813128064
GA-P35-DS4 Rev. 2.0
Memory Standard DDR2 1066

http://www.newegg.com/product/...x?item=N82E16813128083
GA-EP35-DS3P
Memory Standard DDR2 1200 (O.C.)/1066

Niether of them says it supports DDR2 800 so I was getting worried that I needed to find a mobo that actually states DDR2 800 in their memory standard.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[bigblockchevy]

i have a dfi blood iron--the least expensive of the DFI p35's. very good mb--super stable and good over-clocks super easy.

the only thing i don't like about it is that the bios is soldered on.

the biostar tfroce p35-is also very good. but i think the DFI is a little bit better. got mine for $109 back around dec-07.

i also have also had 4 abit ip35e's. two i got from mwave--that i rma-ed for two more from abit rma. they would be good except all 4 had the cold-start-bad transistor problem. even the ones i got from abir rma--that were supposed to be free of the cold start problem. one was super flakey and unstable. i have repaired the two remaining ip35e's with a resistor over the affected transistor which warms up the cold spot on the mb and lets it start up when below 17c. the abit can be a good mb--but be aware that it is a lotto ticket mb.

 

[DarkRogue]

The DFI's in general are fairly expensive though, for my budget.
It seems they are very nicely reviewed so the price could be justified because it appears to be a quality product, but I really don't want to spend $200 on the mobo lol.

It also appears more people have problems with the Asus P35 boards than the Gigabyte P35 boards, so although I've had a pleasant experience with the Asus nForce2 mobo, I think I'll look at the Gigabyte boards as fewer people seem to have problems with them, and they're decently priced. The Foxconn ones didn't leave too much of an impression on me though.

I still am confused about the DDR2 support between all these mobos.
I'm liking the EP35-DS3P in terms of specs, but I don't know if it supports the memory I want to use. Newegg says it supports 1200 and 1066, although the Gigabyte site lists it as also supporting 800. Unfortunately their Memory Support Link doesn't list the modules I want to use - or any 4GB DDR2 800 kit for that matter.

Another problem is Gigabyte's naming scheme for their mobos. I can gather the P35 part is what I'm looking for, but then some have E's, C's, R's, L's, etc. What do they all mean? Gigabyte's FAQ doesn't seem to shed any light on that matter.

 

[crownjules]

I use the Gigabyte P35-DSL3. I believe the L is the base, "no frills" model. There's no SLI, no built in RAID support, etc. It supports the E8400 out of the box as I just set mine up two weeks ago and it was fine. No problem with the board at all thus far and I'm currently overclocked @ 425x9 (had the FSB as high as 470 with a lower multiplier).

 

[DarkRogue]

I don't see a DSL3 listed on Newegg, unless you were meaning to type the DS3L.
What memory are you using? Newegg lists memory standard for DS3L as 1066 but I'm curious if you're using 800 or not with it.

 

[DarkRogue]

Okay, I think I googled myself an answer to Gigabyte's naming scheme.

E is for Dynamic Energy Saver
D is Ultra Durable (II?)
S3 is for Smart, Speed, Safe
S4 is the above + Silent-Pipe
P is for dual PCI-E x16
R is RAID support
C is DDR2 + DDR3
T is DDR3 only
L is the basic model

..Still have no idea what "G" is. (GA-P35-S3G)

All of you probably knew that already but for those as unfortunate as myself, there it is lol.

Anyway, can anyone verify that you can run DDR2 800 with the GA-EP35-DS3P?
If it works, then I think that's what I'm going to get. $155 is a fairly good price to pay I think.

Edit:
Unless the Silent Pipe thing is really that good.. Only difference I saw between S3 and S4 is that the S3 has a pipe to cool the northbridge, but the S4 has a long pipe to cool NB/SB and then runs around the cpu socket for some reason. Not sure if that extra piping is worth the additional $15.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: toadeater

Originally posted by: DarkRogue
Thanks for the reply, how are Foxconn boards in general though?
I've heard good things about Asus and Gigabyte but Foxconn is new to me.

"Foxconn produces the Mac mini, the iPod and the iPhone for Apple Computer; Intel-branded motherboards for Intel Corp.; various orders for American computer retailers Dell, Inc. and Hewlett Packard; the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 for Sony; the Wii for Nintendo;the Xbox 360 for Microsoft, cell phones for Motorola, and Amazon Kindle."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn

Aside from that, the Foxconn Mars is the start of their "enthusiast" line of products. Seems to be going well so far. I'd buy one but it's out of my budget.

Nice resume for Foxconn, but many of those products don't exactly have a shining reliability record, including Dell PC's, etc.

I'm a much bigger fan of ASUS, DFI, etc - companies who have a good history of providing BIOS support for their products.

 

[toadeater]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Nice resume for Foxconn, but many of those products don't exactly have a shining reliability record, including Dell PC's, etc.

I'm a much bigger fan of ASUS, DFI, etc - companies who have a good history of providing BIOS support for their products.

Asus is just as bad as Foxconn I guess, since they also make stuff for Dell.

I'm not worried about BIOS support for the Mars, they put out new BIOSes on a regular basis and the board didn't have any problem with the e8400 or quad cores. It's just the price that puts me off, I'm looking for something under $150.

I'm still deciding what to buy. Leaning towards Gigabyte right now, but the MSI Neo2-FR looks interesting. Never had an MSI board before, what I'm afraid of is fried BIOSes, and MSI lately has had some trouble with those. Then again, so has Gigabyte and Abit. What's the deal with these P35 BIOSes?

 

[imported_Irse]

Ijust ordered the GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3P. If you go to the Gigabyte web site and look at the compatible memory, you will see DDR2 800 memory. I'm sure they can't test every memory there is so I just bought a name brand with the same voltage as the board.
This is from their web site


Enlarge View

GA-EP35-DS3P (rev. 2.1)
Help
Intel® P35 + ICH9R Chipset

1. Supports Intel® Core? 2 multi-core and Intel 45nm processors
2. Supports DDR2 1200(OC)* memory for outstanding system performance.
3. Revolution energy saving design with GIGABYTE Dynamic Energy Saver(DES) technology.
4. Ultra Durable 2 motherboard features High Quality CPU Power design with Ferrite core chokes, Low RDS (on) MOSFET and Solid Capacitors.
5. Ultimate graphics performance with dual PCI-E x16 interface
6. Integrated SATA 3Gb/s with RAID function
7. Features high speed Gigabit Ethernet and IEEE1394
8. Unique Silent-Pipe with outstanding cooling performance
9. Audio controller from ALC 889A codec, featuring 106 dB Signal to Noise ratio and supporting for both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats.

* Please refer ?Memory Support List? for memory support information.
Related link
# Overview (RSS)
# Specification (RSS)
# Accessories
# BIOS (RSS)
# Driver (RSS)
# Manual (RSS)
# FAQ (RSS)
# Utility (RSS)
# CPU Support List
# Memory Support List
# Comparison Sheet
# News (RSS)
# Where To Buy


Specifications
CPU

1. Support for an Intel® Core? 2 Extreme processor/ Intel® Core? 2 Quad processor/Intel® Core? 2 Duo processor/ Intel® Pentium® processor Extreme Edition/Intel® Pentium® D processor/ Intel® Pentium® 4 processor Extreme Edition/Intel® Pentium® 4 processor/ Intel® Celeron® processor in the LGA 775 package
(Go to GIGABYTE's website for the latest CPU support list.)
2. L2 cache varies with CPU
3. 1600 (O.C.)/1333/1066/800 MHz FSB

Chipset

1. North Bridge: Intel® P35 Chipset
2. South Bridge: Intel® ICH9R

Memory

1. 4 x 1.8V DDR2 DIMM sockets supporting up to 8 GB of system memory
2. Dual channel memory architecture
3. Support for DDR2 1200 (O.C.)/1066/800/667 MHz memory modules

So I bought CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory which is 1.8 volts
http://www.newegg.com/product/...x?Item=N82E16820145184

This board has 8 SATA, 8 USB2 on the rear panel and 2 firewire. One nine? pin and one 4 pin. Thats the main reason I picked it.

 

[DarkRogue]

Yeah, I did look that information up and I'm planning to get either the DS3P or the DS4, probably the DS3P though because it's cheaper. It also has features out the wazoo so yay expansion lol.
That is also the exact same memory I plan on getting. I just wanted some confirmation that it would work. If you get your parts soon, could you tell me if that ram works with the board?

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: DarkRogue
I don't see a DSL3 listed on Newegg, unless you were meaning to type the DS3L.
What memory are you using? Newegg lists memory standard for DS3L as 1066 but I'm curious if you're using 800 or not with it.

Yes, that's what I meant. For RAM, I have 2x2GB of GSkill DDR800. They're currently running at DDR850 speed, but I've had them as high as DDR940.

 

[JohnnyGage]

DarkRogue, I feel your pain I am in the same boat as you are. The great mobo search of '08 has just about melted my brain.

 

[DarkRogue]

I agree, it is definitely hard as I don't keep up with this stuff unless I actually need it, and motherboards are really only upgraded when you get a new PC (for me at least.)

Based on what I've found so far though, the EP35-DS3P looks to be the board to get, especially if it's the rev2.1 that supports the E8400 out of the box. Unlike some others, I don't have a spare LGA775 CPU handy to flash other mobo's BIOSes. The only CPU I have is my Athlon XP 2600+.

Let's not forget 2008 has also just begun - better get that poor brain back together before the next slew of new hardware launches lol.