Motherboards, pros and cons: 975 vs 965 vs 680?

[DualMonitors]

For a higher end home office, 3 monitor system, I'm struggling the decision between the various chip sets and motherboards. Please note that I'm a 1st time builder and obviously a bit nervous about this whole thing (for one, i have NO idea what to do once the components are assembled and you turn the machine on and only see BIOS and no Vista yet...i guess i'll have to learn about that next? a good tutorial somewhere?)

Initially, i took the suggestion of a good fellow forum poster here and selected 680. Then, i was told that there are numerous issues with the 680 and doing more research, there appears to be various RAID and other issues with the 680, though many say that those were early problems and they are solved by now.

Then, I looked into the 965, was told that 965 is newer than the 975. Then i discovered that the 965 chipset requires very specific memory (at 1.8 Volts ONLY) and is a bit finicky. While I am concerned about that, it seems very resolvable since once you're aware of the 965 being very finicky and specific about its memory, then just make sure you pick great Corsair memory that is specifically at 1.8 Volts EXACTLY, then there should be no problems, right?

Then I was told: don't bother with the more finicky 965 and just go for the tried and true 975. The 975 is widely used, widely tested, less finicky. So now i'm inclined to go with the 975 instead.

May I ask what your much more experienced comments/opinions/advice is?

my CURRENT 975 MB choice is:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131025

ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard ? Retail $219.99

my PREVIOUS 965 MB choice was:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131028

ASUS P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard ? Retail $195

FYI: as for the processor, I intend to go with the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115003

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor ? Retail $315

_____________________________________
The rest of my system (my very 1st try at building!!) is expected to be:
2/8/07 Revision 1.4 List of Components:

MOTHERBOARD: GO FOR 975 rather than 965 due to less finicky memory voltage:



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131025

ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard ? Retail $219.99
Now, no 965?s fussy memory voltage problem of 1.8 Volts ONLY!
__________

Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115003

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor ? Retail $315
__________
Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145034
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory ? Retail $239
___________
TV Card: Hauppage: TV Cards
___________
Video Card: NewEgg Search Results for 2 DVI/GPU nvidia 7xxx series? (low to high prices)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...00+106790717&Submit=ENE&Subcategory=48

GOOD BFG: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143049
BFG Tech BFGR76256GTOCE GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card ? Retail $93 after $50 Rebate
(BFG does NOT support 2 cards NOT in SLI mode!)

(1) NOT double height http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150170
XFX PVT73PUDJ3 GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card ? Retail $109.99

BEST: THIS IS MY CHOICE (2) Or: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150182
XFX PVT73GUGD3 GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card ? Retail $139.99 $119.99 after $20 Rebate
XFX?s page: http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/lis...%3B+7600&productConfigurationId=592431

(3) Or: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130017
eVGA 256-P2-N554-AX Geforce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card ? Retail $139.99

(4) Or: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143049
BFG Tech BFGR76256GTOCE GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card ? Retail $142.99
(5) Or: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130056
EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 KO Video Card ? Retail $169.99
(6) Or: THIS ONE HAS DX9 SHADER MODEL 3.0 SUPPORT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150202
XFX PVT71PUDP3 GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 EXTREME Video Card ? Retail $174.99
___________
DVD/CD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152058
NEC Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner ? OEM $30
___________
Hard Drive: 2 X (RAID 1) Hard Drive: SATA
___________
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811133020
Thermaltake Armor Series VA8003SWA Silver ATX Full Tower Computer Case w/ 25CM Fan ? Retail $199.99
___________
Power Supply: 24 pin; PFC: Active or Yes
100% 5; 37 reviews: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817139002
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC Class B, TUV, CCC, C-tick ? Retail $150 after $20 Rebate

 

[craftech]

I am in a similar position and have been researching for weeks because I haven't built a system in a number of years. So far I have determined that quality control these days sucks. I don't remember reading about so many DOA computer products like I am reading about now. That said I have seen a lot of complaints (to me a lot) about Asus boards. However, none of the brands seem to have stellar quality control anymore as I said. I may end up with this Foxconn.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=249231

I used to build a computer by buying a few parts here and there at the best prices and then when I had everything I built the computer and they all worked. Now you can't do that because of crap quality control. You need to buy everything at once, build it right away, and return the defective parts while you still can. It's terrible.

John

 

[FreedomGUNDAM]

Should look at the Intel Bad Axe 2 motherboard (975).

 

[Beelziboss]

Im also getting a BadAxe2 that seems to be the most solid of the 975's

 

[DualMonitors]

hi John/craftech: thx for your reply/post. i've heard quite a bit of not the most positive things about Foxconn but then again, i've also read many not so positive things about many others!! as you said so well: "...QC these days suck..."

Having said that, please see the customers' reviews at new egg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186101
Granted, it was only a tiny sampling of 5 reviews but the mix of good/bad certainly isn't great - bearing in mind the tiny sampling. That said, please look further at ALL of Foxconn's Intel-compatible Motherboards sold at NewEgg just for a "bird's eye view" of Foxconn's MB's reviews: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...00280&Subcategory=280&Manufactory=2136
The overall impression/conclusion I can draw, though inconclusive, is that they are not that popular among customers at NewEgg, and that their experiences with Foxconn's Intel-compatible MB's are quite mixed. This led me to not go the Foxconn route. I'm not lobbying to dissuade you, but since your brought up the Foxconn brand and are kind to answer my posting, i thought that i'd give you my 2 cents.

i figured that at least the Asus MB's are widely purchased by the higher end enthusiasts - a group that can be characterized as choosey and very well informed. That in and of itself is a self selecting, higher end, highly educated consumer group - a good thing to hear from and thus, maybe we hear some "nit pick" type of comments - again, great to hear from: more details is better than fewer details!

i really don't know how to go about this other than maybe listen to more people...

Now, on to my original post's question: 975 vs 965 vs 680. Which one and why? again, this is for a non gamer, higher end home office, multi monitor situation. originally, i thought that the 975 is the right choice since the 965 is more "finicky" in terms of the voltage required for the precise type of memory it MUST have. then...i re-read this forum's "sticky thread":

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

while renethx said that the differences may be subtle and what not, he chose the 965 as his #1 choice but sorry to say, he didn't explain why! I'm quoting him: "...The best chipset for Core 2 Duo is Intel P965/G965. So my first picks are from motherboards based on them. The NVIDIA nForce 680i is targeted for enthusiast SLI gamers. If you are going to build a high-end gaming machine, that may be your first choice. The position of Intel 975X is subtle. It was released seven months earlier than 965, but it is still the only "performance" chipset for Core 2 Duo (P965/G965 is a "mainstream" chipset). As a consequence motherboard manufacturers tend to add rich features to 975X motherboards, that could be a plus for some. (High-end P965 motherboards also come with lots of features, however.) Intel 945P/945G motherboards fall in the low-end sector. Performance-wise, there is no big difference between 945 and 965. "

That first sentence confused me as it has no explanation: "the best chipset for the core 2 duo is the 965". BUT WHY?

hope someone here knows and reads this thread and opines!

thx!

 

[Beelziboss]

I honestly wouldnt put much stock into Newegg reviews. While you can pick up tidbits of info, i wouldnt base any choices off of it.

 

[Shimmishim]

i think with the 6300/6400, 965 is the way to go as the high fsb's allowable with the board allows for higher overclocks

with the 6600/6700/6800, 975 is the way to go as you don't need the extreme fsb's to reach decent speeds.

The P5WDH is a good choice as well as the bad axe 2. I have the bad axe 2 and it has been my favorite 775 board i've owned to date.

I just got rid of my asus p5b deluxe wifi/ap... nothing wrong with the board... but clock for clock, the 975 is slightly faster at benching but close in real world aps such as games...

from someone speaking withe xperience with both boards, I'd recommend 975x (just my .02)

 

[craftech]

Originally posted by:
hi John/craftech: thx for your reply/post. i've heard quite a bit of not the most positive things about Foxconn but then again, i've also read many not so positive things about many others!! as you said so well: "...QC these days suck..."

Having said that, please see the customers' reviews at new egg:

The overall impression/conclusion I can draw, though inconclusive, is that they are not that popular among customers at NewEgg, and that their experiences with Foxconn's Intel-compatible MB's are quite mixed. This led me to not go the Foxconn route.

I figured that at least the Asus MB's are widely purchased by the higher end enthusiasts - a group that can be characterized as choosey and very well informed. That in and of itself is a self selecting, higher end, highly educated consumer group.

I didn't think any of them have stellar QC, but I disagree with the assessment regarding ASUS. The reviewers are gamers for the most part. I am like you. I need a stable computer and in my case I don't overclock because I use it for video editing. Most of us have boards with Intel chipsets. VIA seems to be the chipset manufacturer that generates the most complaints amongst video editors.
While gamers are often well informed and choosey, they really have to be because they are engaged in mods, tweaked bios settings, and running their systems out of spec. But they can more often tell you about the boards in terms of how they overclock, etc. and work with games rather than how well they work as a mainstream workstation, etc

Intel boards, Foxconn are more mainstream than ASUS. The reviews regarding many of the ASUS boards indicate a lot of DOA ASUS motherboards (or a reviewer killed it by messing with the settings - not sure which) These weeks of searching have been really disappointing in terms of this whole industry these days.

But you and I are researching amongst game and overclocking enthusiasts for the most part and that is not to take away from their expertise. It is just very different than our requirements. I would suggest that you pick a board amongst the lesser of the evils using the reviews at Newegg and Amazon probably an Intel, Foxconn, or maybe DFI in a 965 or 975; then go to the manufacturers website and look up the other hardware they have tested with the boards and choose only amongst those. That includes the CPU, memory, video card, etc. You did said you were a first time builder.

This guy built a system with that Foxconn board and explains it very well including all the problems he had with his "high end" memory.

http://www.mindspring.com/~anorton1/

John

 

[moosey]

Originally posted by: Beelziboss
I honestly wouldnt put much stock into Newegg reviews. While you can pick up tidbits of info, i wouldnt base any choices off of it.

This is true

 

[DaddyRabbit]

I would also recommend an Intel Bad Axe 2 for a 975x chipset board. Price wise and stability wise it can't be beat. While the Asus does have a bit better of a bundle (e.g. built in Wi-Fi and an integrated E-SATA) Intels board is much cheaper even taking into account buying an E-SATA PCI slot adapter ($5) and a PCI Wi-Fi adapter ($15-$20)

BadAxe 2

Asus P5W DH

Since you are using 3 displays you will need 2 graphics cards. In this situation I would probably go the ATI route since the 975x chipset supports Crossfire. If you game at all then you could switch over to Crossfire mode after "Office Hours" .

These cards have refined Crossfire quite a bit with "Native" Crossfire but even if you don't use it are still very competent cards. Plus IMHO the image qualityof the X19xx cards is better than the Nvidia 7xxx series.

Radeon X1950Pro

 

[eklock2000]

Also worth a read on ICH7 vs. ICH8...

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/03/the_southbridge_battle/

 

[lopri]

The 1.80V memory voltage issue with many new P965 boards has largely been fixed. The issue isn't necessarily chipset-specific but rather board-specific in that JEDEC's standard is 1.80V for DDR2 memory. Still, the reason why 975X is preferred is its maturity compared to any other chipset. Read the excellent recap on 975X vs P965 in Gary's review.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2914

First couple pages as well as the ending discuss the pros/cons of each chipset. By all means, I don't think the 'pure performance' of different chipsets (or boards) will matter to a typical user. For hard-core users, whichever chipset they choose they'll be able to tweak it out to out-perform other chipsets anyway. I would look for compatibility, long-term stability as well as features you need and customer service. 975X is still the safest bet for an E6600 (and even for E6400 to an extent) but if you decide to do away with PATA optical drives (SATA optical drives finally started to come down in prices) P965 is just as good and will have better thermal characteristics.

For 975X, like many others suggested, Bad Axe 2 / P5W-DH / DFI 975X Infinity are considered the best. For P965, I would go by the recommendation in above review. Especially the ASUS P5B-Deluxe and Biostar P965 Deluxe are very interesting to me.

All mid-to-high NV video cards support SLI. As long as the two cards are same model, they should work in tandem on a supported chipset, which at this time is limited to 680i, 650i, and (gasp) 590 SLI.

 

[imported_RedStar]

After looking for a motherboard since september ...i finally opted for the badaxe 2.
Intially i had passed this over because of some concerns about OCZ memory compatibility. However, OCZ staff said, in absolute terms, that the memory would work flawlessly. Add this to the statement of the hardware guy over at |H| saying the badaxe 2 was the most stable and the one to get and...bam!

I was going to go nvidia sli...but the 680i is out for me. Plus, for the short term, sli is not needed anyways with an 8800 card.

The only trade offs other than sli i made is having to put up with legacy serial/parallel ports and a no Digital PWM.

Now i have to wait for my system to be built So hopefully, i will not regret this choice when it is done.

 

[bpatters69]

Couldn't agree more on the 975 chipset. Everything I have read says it is the enthusiast chipset and the stability of the chipset over SLI is huge. Not that any kind of stability over SLI\NVidia chipset means much. You can go to the EVGA boards or other boards to see that the 680i chipset from NVIDIA is causing all kinds of problems. Doest not seem worth it to me.

BTW, I am going with the Asus P5W DH Deluxe. The Intel board is very well rated too especially for stability but the Asus beats the intel at stock and OC. Then again, who really cares. Both boards seem like solid choices.

 

[Chubbbs]

I'm in a similar position, non-gamer looking for rock-solid LGA-775 board, distressed by the horrible quality these days. My plans call for 6 SATA hard disks plus a SATA optical drive (it's a MythTV and pro audio box). 975X only offers 4 SATAs, and 650/680i looks disastrously unstable, so P965 is my only hope, and only certain P965 boards at that.

I'm looking at the Gigabyte P965-DQ6. It's really expensive, but it's the only board I've found with 8 internal SATAs in a reasonable location (what were you thinking, Abit?) plus more than one PCI-e 1x. If you don't need so many disks, its little brother, the DS3, has gotten very good reviews. They both have solid capacitors, which are great for stability and longevity. The DQ6 has the nicest-looking passive cooling system I've ever seen on a motherboard.

Does anyone know if/when Intel is going to replace the 975X? I'm afraid to buy right now because it seems like a new high-end chipset from Intel has to been coming soon. I don't know... I'm just not that thrilled with the motherboard options for Intel CPUs right now.

EDIT: Oh, I notice your spec list includes a RAID 1 array. Do yourself a favor and say NO to onboard RAID. Say it with me now... NO, I will NOT use your crappy, buggy, hard to configure RAID drivers! That's better. Now go and learn about software RAID and see how much better it is.

 

[renethx]

Most 975X boards support more than 4 SATA devices with an additional storage controller (abit AW9D-MAX: 7, Intel D97XBX2: 8).

The successor to 975X is Intel X38 Express (Q3, 2007), coupled with the new SB ICH9/ICH9R/ICH9DH. Main features are

• FSB 1333MTps
• DDR2-800/DDR3-1333
• PCI Express 2.0
• Dual PCI Express x16 at full speed x16, x16

Nothing so exciting IMO. The release date Q3 2007 means that you may have to wait til Q1 2008 for mature, stable motherboards. The successor to the other current Intel chipsets are found in the sticky thread "Core 2 & AM2 Motherboards".

 

[virtualrain]

Three basic questions that must be answered when picking a board...

1. Are you overclocking or not? (If you aren't, you should be)

2. Do you need SLI? (Typically a decision based on your choice of monitor size/res)

3. What other priorities do you have? (i.e. bling, cooling, I/O features, etc.)

Overclocking:
One of the key factors in overclocking is Vcore voltage stability (lack of droop, fluctuations, etc.). MCH voltage is also key. Another is range of memory timing settings. If you are just mild overclocking, all of the mainstream boards will be sufficient but ASUS boards are notoriously bad for poor Vcore control and bad droop.

SLI:
Personally, I don't like SLI and will always choose a monitor size that will perform well with a top of the line single card. Unless you are into 3D benching or have a 24"+ monitor, don't worry about SLI.

Other Features:
These are personal. Do you want passive heat pipe cooling, or something you can easily water cool? Do you want a board that matches your color scheme, or you don't care? Do you want a board with 8 SATA ports or is 6 enough? Etc. No one can help you with this.

The only board I would say to avoid is the EVGA (or other reference) 680i boards. They appear to be far more trouble than they are worth. If you need/want 680i do yourself a favor and get an ASUS, Gigabyte, ABIT or somethinge other than a reference board.

If you want a good 975 Board, go with the P5W DH (loaded with features) or the Intel Badaxe (Rock solid). Both are good choices and owned by thousands of users here and elsewhere.

Good luck.

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: DaddyRabbit
I would also recommend an Intel Bad Axe 2 for a 975x chipset board. Price wise and stability wise it can't be beat. While the Asus does have a bit better of a bundle (e.g. built in Wi-Fi and an integrated E-SATA) Intels board is much cheaper even taking into account buying an E-SATA PCI slot adapter ($5) and a PCI Wi-Fi adapter ($15-$20)

BadAxe 2

Asus P5W DH

$249 for the P5W? Forget TigerDirect. It's $219 @ ZZF w/free shipping. The BadAxe may still be cheaper, but if anyone wants the Asus there's no sense in paying more for it at Tiger. Just a heads up...

 

[DaddyRabbit]

I just used those as a reference from one vendor that had both boards, not as a recommendation . I was assuming the OP would do his own shopping, the point was that, pretty much anywhere you go, the BX2 will be cheaper than the ASUS board.

 

[seamaster32]

so... I have finally decided that the 680 is too unstable and not for me as I do not need SLI. However... Help... I am still perplexed about 975x vs 965. I am planning on purchasing a e6600 and want the capability of oc'ing it to about 3.0 (stable). I need at least 2 gb of fast >=800mhz and will probobaly get the ATI x1950 v-card. Which chipset is better for my req's? Most of what I see that is recommended is old....old in the pc world is >4-6 months (at least for mb's).

Any recommendations for newer boards/chipsets?

Peace-

 

[DaddyRabbit]

Currently running my E6600 @ 3g (340 FSB) with 0 problems on the Bad Axe 2. The 975, while it seems old, currently seems very stable and is slightly faster overall than NV6xxi, RD600, and 965.

If you were going with a 6300/6400 then 965 would get you better overclocking but with the 6600 a 975 board would be your best bet IMHO (plus you have Crossfire support down the road if you wish).

I still recommend the BX2, it seems to have a better track record than most of the competition stability wise (no empirical evidence just observation) since I own one I am biased though

One downside of the BX2 might or might not affect you, there are 3 PCI-e x16 (physical) slots and 2 PCI slots. Definitely don't overlook the expansion slot requirements while shopping, if you need more than 2 PCI devices the BX2 is out...