Moto X (Is Out) [8.01.2013]

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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
Not even. I actually like HTC One's Sense compared to stock or Touchwiz. Its nice, clean, and function able.

I haven't used sense for ages but even in the bad old days sense was pretty good, the only problem was with performance.

For a long time everyone's home screen looked like a Sense home screen even if they were running AOSP roms.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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Honestly I'd take the touchwiz version over the Google version, if only for the better camera software and multi window.

I'd install a different launcher whichever version I was using so I don't really see many plusses from the Google edition just negatives really. I don't have a huge affinity for blue or an allergy to green so the colour of some option toggles doesn't leave me with any great feelings.

I know you guys like to discount anything that goes against the techy hive mind but maybe your just wrong on this. Maybe people buy phones because they like them not just because of advertising and maybe they are satisfied with them because they offer a good experience not because they are "clueless consumers".

Fair enough. Certain people like TouchWiz over AOSP, and I can agree with you that it has advantages such as multi window and camera software.

I'm not saying people DON'T buy phones because they're better, but they certainly also buy phones due to marketing and popularity. Marketing and brand name awareness work like momentum. Samsung clearly had a lot of momentum going into the GS3 and GS4. Like someone else said:

I remember early this year how my friend picked the S3 over the Optimus G to my misgivings. Quad-core doesn't matter. More memory doesn't matter. All-glass construction doesn't matter if the phone is muted in black and buried in the corner.

So while I understand this phone is not for us here @AT, the buying public might have a different idea. It's all about perception.

I'm not saying the Galaxy phones are bad, I just don't like TouchWiz, and while that's subjective I think I'm giving plenty of reasons why it's ugly. I'm not the only one who supports that thought.

However my point was that consumers don't really thoroughly evaluate phones. How many of them compared the GS1 vs HTC Desire, or GS2 vs. Sensation, or GS3 vs One X and GS4 vs One? I can agree Samsung had a advantage early on, but HTC's stepped it up big and so have other brands. There's more reasons to explore other brands more than ever.

How does this relate to the Moto X? I think besides the hardware specs that we hate, the Moto X offers a decent challenge. It's got pretty good looks. It's got decent specs. From the demos and marketing talk, it seems smooth as hell, likely smoother than the Galaxy S4. There's what the tech world views it as, and there's what consumers actually do. Let's not forget the HTC One X and One got great reviews but HTC is still struggling.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136

Your main argument against TW seems to be "never mind the increased functionality, OMG the icons are GREEN!".
The fact is that it makes the phone easier to use and set up for the average user (this is probably true for most manufacturer skins, I'm mainly talking about TW as it's what I'm using at the moment.).

I actually think all this pressure from the vocal minority for bare bones AOSP phones might end up doing more harm than good.
 

T_Yamamoto

Lifer
Jul 6, 2011
15,007
795
126
I think TW is horrible. It boggle downs the phone and eats ram. If it had stock, it would feel faster and be somewhat useable.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
I could recommend this thing if the screen was 1080p. The difference is pretty significant.
It's non-pentile 720p though. So the subpixel density is about the same.

That said, the other stuff makes the price ridiculous.

EDIT to add: hahaha, from the comments to Brian's piece...
Oh well... Thought I would finally replace my SGS 2 with this phone, but unless they release a "China Edition" assembled in China and sold at $299 off contract, I think my S2 is going to get another year of use ^^
 
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Feb 19, 2001
20,158
20
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Your main argument against TW seems to be "never mind the increased functionality, OMG the icons are GREEN!".
The fact is that it makes the phone easier to use and set up for the average user (this is probably true for most manufacturer skins, I'm mainly talking about TW as it's what I'm using at the moment.).

I actually think all this pressure from the vocal minority for bare bones AOSP phones might end up doing more harm than good.

I didn't say never mind the increased functionality. Once again you can like TouchWiz. Keep calling everyone who doesn't like it a vocal minority. If you look at this thread right now there's more than a few people who don't like TouchWiz.

I don't like it because:

- Yes it looks like ass. It's essentially the Gingerbread look in an Holo world. Green icons are part of it but please, stop exaggerating because it's not a simple "OMG ITS GREEN, REJECT THIS CRAP"

- What increased functionality am I getting? Blink detection? S-View? S-Translate? A lot of the new S-crap they promoted in the GS4 launch are available as Google Apps on the play store. The camera? I agree the camera is a lot better, but I can still take photos on the AOSP camera. As I expressed before, photography is really about exposure, and unless the Samsung camera has far better processing that I cannot realize on my AOSP camera, I don't see a dire need to use it.

- TouchWiz lags. Go play with a GS4 and iPhone 5 and HTC One. The latter 2 don't slow down one bit. You might not like Sense, that's fine, but I'm talking about lag only.

So yes that's my gripe with TouchWiz. Am I missing out using AOSP? Maybe, but isn't that a choice Nexus and any AOSP user deals with? You're acting as if people are wrong for choosing other skins like Sense or Blur or whatever, and that TouchWiz IS the way to go. This is just my opinion, and whether or not people like other skins is totally up to them. I wouldn't say they're "wrong" though.
 
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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
TouchWiz is terirble. I don't know how anybody could like it. It is laggy as hell and doens't add any useful functionality.

Sense seems much better, but I haven't had much experience with it.

Stock is my favorite.
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
0
0
Been somewhat mulling over that 500 million budget myself. How many units of this phone does Motorola expect to ship? I doubt they're foolish enough to expect it'll reduce the sales of flagship phones like the S4/HTC One/Experia Z/LG Optimus G2 to zero.

JP Morgan estimates Samsung will sell about 60M of their Galaxy S4 over the life of the product. Let's call it 100M total worldwide market for flagship devices, which this appears to be priced as. We know Moto X is limited to the US, and effectively to one carrier for the desirable model.

Unlike the poster above I would be shocked if this phone sells more than 10 million units before being replaced/eclipsed/forgotten. Which would make the marketing budget $50/phone.

It's gotta be 500M as a marketing budget for the whole 'Motorola X' brand, not just this failphone. Hoping against hope there will be something lustworthy in the forseeable future moto product pipeline, but even that faint hope is quickly fading.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
They may need to do this anyway, even if they spend so much in marketting that they don't make any money on this phone. Samsung and Apple have almost a high end duopoly on phones and Motorola needs to do something big to let consumers know there are other options that are cool too. And it could help pave the way for easier acceptance of later Moto phones.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
TouchWiz is terirble. I don't know how anybody could like it. It is laggy as hell and doens't add any useful functionality.

Sense seems much better, but I haven't had much experience with it.

Stock is my favorite.

Nearly all the mobile websites that have reviewed the OEM S4 versus the Google Play edition (GPe) have agreed that it's faster stock and with less/no instances of lag.

Meanwhile, the difference in performance between OEM HTC One and the GPe version is practically negligible with zero or minimal lag versus the S4.
Sense is definitely better. Even if Samsung added *some* useful features, they threw in way too much junk in there. The GPe is a good phone, but I wouldn't pay any premium for the TouchWiz version versus any of the quad core 1080p phones. If it were cheaper than the One I would have considered it. As it is, it boggles my mind that so many people are choosing the GS4 over the HTC One.

I guess that's just marketing and people failing to do research.
I'm sure the Moto X with its huge marketing budget will fare better against the S4 in terms of sales. I'm rooting for any competitor to Samsung at this point because you can bet that they will coast on their next phones once they start to dominate the Android market - well, they kind of are already.
 
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v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
0
0
As it is, it boggles my mind that so many people are choosing the GS4 over the HTC One.

I guess that's just marketing and people failing to do research.

I've got 5 recent high end phone purchases that seem to counter that.

#1. Housewife. Convinced to get the S4 because of the Samsung brand. Already in Samsung "ecosystem" because of a high end TV, suspicious of HTC quality control issues which she researched. (see #5).
#2. Travelling sales guy #1. Paranoid about forgetting or being unable to recharge. Carries 3 or 4 spare batteries at all time. Replaceable battery of S4 is a killer feature for him.
#3. Travelling sales guy #2. Lemminged what the #2 guy did.
#4. Travelling sales guy #3. Media junky, doesn't want to wait for cloud storage or deal with occasional streaming issues. Bought S4 because of SD card.
#5. Developer, liked the aluminum and speakers of HTC One, has access to broadband always so SD card is no big, can always charge, doesn't want a case. His HTC One failed after about 3 weeks of ownership, he's now in the process of getting it replaced by an S4.

To that I add another co worker whose iPhone 4S contract has not yet expired. He is loathing the sealed battery, his iPhone is giving him less than 8 hours on a charge (he recharges from a car charger). He's planning on replacing his iPhone with an S4, largely because it's important to him to continue charging from a car charger, and once the battery is damaged to the point of uselessness he'll simply replace it.

Then there's me and my wife. She takes TONS and I mean TONS of pictures for her real estate business. She buys 16 gig sdcards in bulk. There's not a data plan on the planet that'd let her cloud that much data in real time. Probably not getting the S4, but LG G2 is likely if it has an SD slot. HTC One can't be considered.

And last but not least, there's yours truly. I expect to hack the living crap out of my phone, so having a larger installed user base and bigger community is important. If I had to buy the phone today, this very instant it'd be the S4. Was considering the X until pricing was announced, now waiting for the LG G2 as well.

Total: 5 actual and 3 potential sales for phones other than HTC One, having very little to do with marketing. One size doesn't fit all, people's needs are different. For some the Samsung brand, or SDCard, or battery are far more important than optical image stabilization, an extra 16G of onboard RAM or boom sound.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
I've got 5 recent high end phone purchases that seem to counter that.

#1. Housewife. Convinced to get the S4 because of the Samsung brand. Already in Samsung "ecosystem" because of a high end TV, suspicious of HTC quality control issues which she researched. (see #5).
#2. Travelling sales guy #1. Paranoid about forgetting or being unable to recharge. Carries 3 or 4 spare batteries at all time. Replaceable battery of S4 is a killer feature for him.
#3. Travelling sales guy #2. Lemminged what the #2 guy did.
#4. Travelling sales guy #3. Media junky, doesn't want to wait for cloud storage or deal with occasional streaming issues. Bought S4 because of SD card.
#5. Developer, liked the aluminum and speakers of HTC One, has access to broadband always so SD card is no big, can always charge, doesn't want a case. His HTC One failed after about 3 weeks of ownership, he's now in the process of getting it replaced by an S4.

To that I add another co worker whose iPhone 4S contract has not yet expired. He is loathing the sealed battery, his iPhone is giving him less than 8 hours on a charge (he recharges from a car charger). He's planning on replacing his iPhone with an S4, largely because it's important to him to continue charging from a car charger, and once the battery is damaged to the point of uselessness he'll simply replace it.

Then there's me and my wife. She takes TONS and I mean TONS of pictures for her real estate business. She buys 16 gig sdcards in bulk. There's not a data plan on the planet that'd let her cloud that much data in real time. Probably not getting the S4, but LG G2 is likely if it has an SD slot. HTC One can't be considered.

And last but not least, there's yours truly. I expect to hack the living crap out of my phone, so having a larger installed user base and bigger community is important. If I had to buy the phone today, this very instant it'd be the S4. Was considering the X until pricing was announced, now waiting for the LG G2 as well.

Total: 5 actual and 3 potential sales for phones other than HTC One, having very little to do with marketing. One size doesn't fit all, people's needs are different. For some the Samsung brand, or SDCard, or battery are far more important than optical image stabilization, an extra 16G of onboard RAM or boom sound.

The fact that the S4 has a microSD slot and replaceable battery can't account for the difference in sales. For every case that you mentioned, there are many more people who don't use/replace either. I appreciate the anecdotes, but not everyone is in sales or real estate. I would argue what those people need more than anything is a proper secondary camera or a large external battery, anyway. Carrying and swapping batteries isn't any more convenient than charging on the go, unless you don't mind rebooting your phone or plugging it in and then swapping. Plenty of third-party battery/case solutions exist for the HTC One, by the way. Even paying for a battery case, the HTC One can be cheaper or the same price as the S4.
For long term replacement, very few people are running down the phone so much in 2 years (the length of a contract) that the battery doesn't retain most of its charge anymore. If you are in an industry that requires heavy phone use, I'd expect that you would likely upgrade your phone more often than most, anyway, unless you are the kind of person who sticks with an old Blackberry.

I'm not saying the S4 can't be used in that way, or that it isn't a decent enough camera to use as a dedicated camera, but 90 percent of the market isn't sales people and real estate agents, and I'd still say a DSLR or mirrorless with microSD (or the Lumia 1020, which doesn't have microSD but takes far better pictures than the S4) is a far better option. Or just offloading shots like most people do. Which you really should do. Backing up is important - good luck recovering critical hundreds of photos because your microSD fails. Flash memory isn't 100% reliable, the worst thing to do is fill up a 64GB microSD card without offloading it to a computer or other device. Onboard filesystem can be corrupted, too. Most Android phones have USB OTG. 25GB free on the One is a LOT of pictures, even for a real estate agent - I would offload all of that to any mobile computer, tablet, or other device with cloud backup unless you don't mind risking losing any of those shots.

If those make up most of the S4 owners you know, I'm betting you are in either industry or related field. That's like if I said most of my friends are in the music industry and vastly prefer the HTC speakers/Beats audio, or if I say I'm a writer or food critic and prefer the One's because it does low light better. I'd argue there are more people that have those specific needs - or others that the HTC One targets - than the real estate agent or sales person. I know exactly one person who swaps batteries out of all the smartphone owners people I know. I would argue that there are far more music fans who listen to music from the speakers at least occasionally than there are people who absolutely need replaceable batteries.

HTC isn't winning those kinds of sales because of one reason: marketing.

The quality control issues might have been the only real issue in your list, but I haven't heard anything lately that suggest the HTC One is worse in that regard than the S4. What I have heard is some bad press about Samsung lately in other areas, which doesn't seem to be affecting sales.

Anyone who does their research should see that HTC One is the S4's equal at the very least and better in many ways. I'm sure there are hundred different scenarios in which on is better than the other, but my point isn't to say that the HTC One is absolutely the best phone for everyone. But you would have to be more than blind to not see that marketing is the major reason the GS4 is outselling the One.

Bringing this back to the Moto X, Google and Motorola seem to be taking an approach more along the lines of the One than the S4, and we can see with the purported $500 million marketing budget if it will do well even without microSD or replaceable battery. A few months is all it takes to see if I'm right.
 
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Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
Huh. I've been a happy WP8 user for awhile now, but this phone may get me to switch back to Android given my current quest to use as much made in the USA stuff as possible. Good for Google!
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
As it is, it boggles my mind that so many people are choosing the GS4 over the HTC One.

Touchwiz or not the GS4 is a faster phone than the HTC One. GS4 also has a better camera for everything except night time shots and has better battery life. Screen is better too. The GS4 is an objectively better phone. Take TW out of the equation and it's even more of a no brainer. 404 Mind boggle not found.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
Touchwiz or not the GS4 is a faster phone than the HTC One. GS4 also has a better camera for everything except night time shots and has better battery life. Screen is better too. The GS4 is an objectively better phone. Take TW out of the equation and it's even more of a no brainer. 404 Mind boggle not found.

1. With TouchWiz, it isn't. Except in theory, which accounts for jack. There are numerous reviews (and my own personal experience with the phones) that say the exact same thing, that the TouchWiz GS4 is slower/laggier than GPe and either version of the HTC One, with the exception of benchmarks which mean squat. And supposedly (look at the reviews) the Moto X is faster than the One at least in games despite having a weaker processor. Are people are still quoting raw specs? I would think people would realize by now that software matters.

2. Night and indoor. Which is roughly half the time or more unless you happen to be an very active out of doors kind of person. So the GS4 is about as good as the One depending on your usage. No objection from me.

3. Battery life depends on your usage. I'd say they are close to equal; it might be possible to get an hour more on the GS4, but it really comes down to testing parameters, carrier, radio(s) in use, etc. The GS4 can claim the advantage here if you want.

4. The GS4 screen is bigger, not better. The technologies are different, but the most objective (but not necessarily the most important to you) metric is DPI, which is higher on the One. I have no issue picking either screen, but personally I like LCD over AMOLED for high resolution screens on smartphones. Which screen is "better" depends on who you ask.

5. The GS4 is objectively better on paper. Go read some reviews or play with both phones side-by-side. I have. The One is a better phone. Nearly across the board all the major review sites were giving the One a better score. If you want to take TouchWiz out of the equation, I would say the GS4 and One are neck and neck, given the GPe versions of both the One and the S4. Both have very compelling reasons in different areas to own either. Don't forget that some of the S4's advantages are negated - unless price is no object - by the higher cost and cost of additional storage and/or extra batteries if you want to count that as an advantage. Good luck using the GS4 for a lot of apps or a moderate amount of music without paying for more storage. Even if it's cheap, you won't get good results with apps on uSD unless you opt for a card with fast speeds. Any way you slice it, it costs more.

I'm not trying to be biased for HTC here or against Samsung, but I've done my research before buying the One. I think a lot of people who are saying the S4 is a much better phone have either never used it and/or are buying into the marketing or prior experiences with Samsung products.

I feel the initial dislike of the Moto X's midrange hardware will also go away as people realize and read the reviews stating that it is fast and truly a high end phone, even though it isn't quite up to the specs of the GS4. But it isn't drastically worse even there, and being arguing about specifications does no one any good when you have to actually use these devices.
 
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VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
If the battery life of this phone is actually 24 hours I will buy it instantly. If it's 12 hours of heavy use I will be it instantly.

I could care less about MOAR COARS. I just want a phone that lasts throughout my work day and can get me ATOT on the go at all times.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
If the battery life of this phone is actually 24 hours I will buy it instantly. If it's 12 hours of heavy use I will be it instantly.

I could care less about MOAR COARS. I just want a phone that lasts throughout my work day and can get me ATOT on the go at all times.

If it actually did last that long with heavy use, I'd definitely be interested in buying it, as well. It's something I've wanted for a while. No changing batteries, no external battery, no giant heavy battery case, just a full day of use on medium brightness with LTE ON. Tired of the overly-optimistic tests I see on some sites. If I can torture test the thing and have it last even 8 hours I'd be set.

Even better if we can disable the NLP and contextual cores. I don't need the Google Now feature.
 
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openwheel

Platinum Member
Apr 30, 2012
2,044
17
81
More reports of the moto x is getting me really excited. It is apparently a power sipper and manages battery optimally. It is looking like my new phone will soon be a MotoX

I have been waiting for someone to make a phone that can wake up Google now by a hard button. Motorola took it even further with the always listening feature. I love it and I can finally drop the navigation option on my next car.
 
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AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
My friend who you would call your average user just picked up GS4 tonight. Coming from an iPhone 4S he loves it. I told him about the HTC One and it was just a matter of preference. He checked it out in the store and liked the GS4 more.

I gotta say though, the way Tmobile has it set up in the store makes it hard for anyone to choose an HTC One. Its on the wall with all of the other shitty phones while the whole Galaxy set is in its own area with a nice display. Only other phone that has a display are the iPhones.
 
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