Moto X (Is Out) [8.01.2013]

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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
I didn't say never mind the increased functionality. Once again you can like TouchWiz. Keep calling everyone who doesn't like it a vocal minority. If you look at this thread right now there's more than a few people who don't like TouchWiz.

Given that TW phones way, way outsell non TW phones and that there are some very good non TW phones available shows me that the majority really doesn't care anyway near as much as vocal people on forums.

I don't like it because:

- Yes it looks like ass. It's essentially the Gingerbread look in an Holo world. Green icons are part of it but please, stop exaggerating because it's not a simple "OMG ITS GREEN, REJECT THIS CRAP"

Well when pressed that's what people always bring up, the green toggles and the cartoon icons.

- What increased functionality am I getting? Blink detection? S-View? S-Translate? A lot of the new S-crap they promoted in the GS4 launch are available as Google Apps on the play store. The camera? I agree the camera is a lot better, but I can still take photos on the AOSP camera. As I expressed before, photography is really about exposure, and unless the Samsung camera has far better processing that I cannot realize on my AOSP camera, I don't see a dire need to use it.

Fact is the Samsung camera takes better photos than the AOSP one, how it does it doesn't really matter. It also has some great modes as well, I have kids and best face is great for getting them all looking at the camera/not picking their noses.
You don't get to choose what functions are worthy for everyone that's for them to choose and use the ones they want. Remember choice? It's why a lot of people use android in the first place.

I personally find the camera, multi view, about half the motion settings, smart stay, s planner, and some of the social media integration superior to AOSP buy YMMV.

- TouchWiz lags. Go play with a GS4 and iPhone 5 and HTC One. The latter 2 don't slow down one bit. You might not like Sense, that's fine, but I'm talking about lag only.

Are you talking about TW or the TW launcher?
I have no problem with sense at all, my only problem is this mindless kneejerk of "OMG it's not stock, the toggles are the wrong colour. All android phones need to look the same!"

So yes that's my gripe with TouchWiz. Am I missing out using AOSP? Maybe, but isn't that a choice Nexus and any AOSP user deals with? You're acting as if people are wrong for choosing other skins like Sense or Blur or whatever, and that TouchWiz IS the way to go. This is just my opinion, and whether or not people like other skins is totally up to them. I wouldn't say they're "wrong"
though.

Again I'm happy for people to use what they like. I like that there are lots of skins on android, I think it's healthy for lots of companies to have that much input. I mainly talk about TW because that's what's on my phone if I was using an HTC phone I'd probably be saying the same things about Sense. I don't recall me saying anything negative about other manufacturer skins (maybe Moto blur a while back).
 

thedosbox

Senior member
Oct 16, 2009
961
0
0
How the heck did this thread end up as a pissing contest between fans of AOSP vs Touchwiz? We all know the people here are going to be more spec focused. Well, this phone is not for you.

Disappointed that it wasn't $300 outright? That was wishful thinking in the first place, though I have some sympathy with the argument that AT&T's pricing is a little optimistic. It'll be interesting to see where other carriers price it given the lack of customization.

Consider Krait 300 and Adreno 320 beneath you? There are plenty of alternatives for you to choose from.

Yeah, the Moto X definitely has a few neat little tricks. But so far I haven't heard of a single feature that sounds like something I would use or use enough to buy a phone for.

For me, LTE and 802.11ac in a one-handed friendly package would be good enough to consider it. The "Assist" app could also be a nice addition if it's fully integrated.
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
0
0
I would argue what those people need more than anything is a proper secondary camera or a large external battery, anyway. Carrying and swapping batteries isn't any more convenient than charging on the go, unless you don't mind rebooting your phone or plugging it in and then swapping.

These people, myself included, don't want to carry a purse full of hardware or a utility belt. If the single device wasn't more convenient we'd all still be carrying a PDA, original RAZR, pager and point and shoot camera. I'm willing to grant the external charger being a solution to no removable battery, although most of these are bulky and ugly and I personally prefer the much smaller and more portable battery. I can stuff 3-4 batteries into my laptop bag or rollerbag without noticing.

Most Android phones have USB OTG. 25GB free on the One is a LOT of pictures, even for a real estate agent - I would offload all of that to any mobile computer, tablet, or other device with cloud backup unless you don't mind risking losing any of those shots.

USB OTG is a similar solution to an external charger. It's a form factor issue. It's easier and more portable to have a dozen SDcards in your wallet/purse than a dozen USB sticks. As far as 25GB, she snaps about 32 to 48 gigs of pictures that don't need supreme photo quality a day. That's about a terabyte of "cloud" data uploaded (and downloaded) a month, even the $500/month pro plans would kick her off. Yes, a Nokia phone would be better for what she does (better than the S4 and One), but she's already in (and familiar with) the Android ecosystem so is willing to live with sub-par Android cameras because they're good enough.

If those make up most of the S4 owners you know, I'm betting you are in either industry or related field. That's like if I said most of my friends are in the music industry and vastly prefer the HTC speakers/Beats audio, or if I say I'm a writer or food critic and prefer the One's because it does low light better.

I'm sorry, but that's like saying herpes is better than cancer. Yes, the audio on the One is worlds better than any other cell phone. From my own experience, I use the phone speaker for critical listening exactly never. Running and driving are my two mobile listening use cases, and there I use headphones and car speakers.

I would argue that there are far more music fans who listen to music from the speakers at least occasionally than there are people who absolutely need replaceable batteries.

When's the last time you, personally, used the external speakers and said to yourself, "wow, these make all the difference in the world in the experience I'm having right now." Just like laptops and tablets, the difference between "best" speakers on the mobile device and "good" speakers on a mobile device is the difference between "bleh" and "horrible." Yes, it's better, but still never "good." What I'm saying is audio reproduction via speaker on a phone has yet to get to the point where it's a definitive, must have feature.

HTC isn't winning those kinds of sales because of one reason: marketing.

But you would have to be more than blind to not see that marketing is the major reason the GS4 is outselling the One.

It's a big reason, for sure. I'm still not convinced it's the major one. Even for people who don't "need" the SD/battery having them seems better than not having them. We keep bringing the "average" user into this discussion because of the Moto X -- the display on the S4 is larger and with better black levels and contrast than the One. Just like "torch mode" used to sell TVs in a brightly lit showroom this alone might account for better sales. I'd vastly prefer LCD to OLED myself, but I won't deny the "punch" of seeing one in store. If they were sold outside, in sunlight, I would bet far fewer "average joes" would buy the S4.

Bringing this back to the Moto X, Google and Motorola seem to be taking an approach more along the lines of the One than the S4, and we can see with the purported $500 million marketing budget if it will do well even without microSD or replaceable battery. A few months is all it takes to see if I'm right.

Possibly. A lot of whether a device is a hit or a miss has to do with the initial tech buzz. The best buzz so far about the Moto X is "it should be good enough for the likes of you, you don't need a premium device." Tech spec hounds get asked for product advice all the time and if asked whether someone should get a Moto X my answer would be "heck no, look at the S4, One, iPhone 5 (and soon the LG G2)" I'm by far not in a minority. It'll take a lot of ads to overcome the advice of basement dwellers whom your "average joes" turn to.
 
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Feb 19, 2001
20,158
20
81

I think my point was that basically the Moto X really pushes the AOSP look to the mainstream crowd. It's Motorola's offering against the GS4, HTC One, etc. I'm kinda disappointed it wasn't marketed around the world, but I'm in the US anyway, and plus I'm not getting this phone... but still if we take the US market only for this discussion, I think now people will be more aware of this vanilla Android interface.

There may be plenty of people out there like you who will prefer TouchWiz, and maybe more people will continue to prefer TouchWiz over Holo Android, but at least now the vanilla Android interface is out there for everyone to use, not just as a Verizon exclusive. So perhaps this isn't the phone us techies were looking for or this isn't the flagship that was going to steamroll Samsung, HTC Sony, or LG, but its something, but as long as it isn't a failure like Blackberry's Z10 or something I'd say Moto made a positive step forward.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
These people, myself included, don't want to carry a purse full of hardware or a utility belt. If the single device wasn't more convenient we'd all still be carrying a PDA, original RAZR, pager and point and shoot camera. I'm willing to grant the external charger being a solution to no removable battery, although most of these are bulky and ugly and I personally prefer the much smaller and more portable battery. I can stuff 3-4 batteries into my laptop bag or rollerbag without noticing.

You say that people don't want to carry around a "a purse full of hardware or a utility belt" but you are apparently fine carrying around phone batteries in your bag. That's for your own situation. I don't like carrying around batteries period. If you ask the average person if they are carrying around extra batteries - even if they have a replaceable battery - I'm sure he or she would say no. Just because you are comfortable carrying around batteries, but not external ones, doesn't mean someone else isn't comfortable carrying an external battery. You are assuming others won't be inconvenienced by carrying around extra batteries, but will be by an external. I don't think that's a sensible assumption to make, not of the masses, which is what we are talking about unless you have the purchasing power of tens of millions of people.

You and your prior examples don't represent average users. Tens of millions of Android users aren't each carrying around extra batteries for their S series devices. I have no doubt plenty of us enthusiasts are, but does it make up 50% of the Android base? 30%? 10%? Does a replaceable battery translate into sales of these devices? It might account for a small portion, but unless you have evidence (hard statistics), I'd say marketing is still the big reason the S4 is outselling the One by so much. Claiming that the microSD card reader or removable batteries are significant in terms of sales is like claiming that good MPG is what sells BMWs luxury sedans or sports coupes over its competitors. Sure, you would like good MPG, but I'm betting that's not the primary concern of those who can afford them or similarly high-end cars.

USB OTG is a similar solution to an external charger. It's a form factor issue. It's easier and more portable to have a dozen SDcards in your wallet/purse than a dozen USB sticks. As far as 25GB, she snaps about 32 to 48 gigs of pictures that don't need supreme photo quality a day. That's about a terabyte of "cloud" data uploaded (and downloaded) a month, even the $500/month pro plans would kick her off. Yes, a Nokia phone would be better for what she does (better than the S4 and One), but she's already in (and familiar with) the Android ecosystem so is willing to live with sub-par Android cameras because they're good enough.

48GB a DAY? Seriously? One person, without using RAW or "supreme photo quality"? If it there were HD video mixed in maybe that's possible, but otherwise that's over 15,000 photos. Please tell me you meant MB, or a year, or that's for a large team of realtors. If she hasn't lost any photos due to a corrupt microSD card, well, I'd like to invest in the company that makes whatever brand she's using. I get a little antsy having only 100 photos, let alone 15,000, on a microSD without having at least a local backup on a desktop or laptop. One is none, two is one.

That's the most extreme example I've ever heard of, and most professionals taking anywhere near that many shots would at least have a backup or "real" camera. A compact MILC would do the trick and she wouldn't have to worry about the OS potentially messing up or corrupting the filesystem (it happens), or other potential issues that arise from having a smartphone fail. Heck, even viruses can a threat on the Android operating system now. If even 0.01% of the population is taking that many shots, then I'd agree that the S4 is a strong sell. But otherwise at least for photography, I would say 25GB is a decent enough solution. I'm sure many people with large media collections that absolutely need all 10,000 songs and 3,000 movies that they own to be on their phone at all times demand microSD, but again I would bet that the HTC One with 32GB standard suffices for most.

If you look at Android phones and the iPhone, we are already in a world where a large part of the market has already gone away from external and are moving to larger internal storage. I personally prefer 32GB onboard as to 16GB (10GB useable) plus external, but maybe that's only me. Ideally we'll see 128GB and higher onboard be the standard in 2 or 3 years, but for now I'm willing to bet that most people are happy with 32GB, especially considering how many people are on devices with less than that.

I'm sorry, but that's like saying herpes is better than cancer. Yes, the audio on the One is worlds better than any other cell phone. From my own experience, I use the phone speaker for critical listening exactly never. Running and driving are my two mobile listening use cases, and there I use headphones and car speakers.

When's the last time you, personally, used the external speakers and said to yourself, "wow, these make all the difference in the world in the experience I'm having right now." Just like laptops and tablets, the difference between "best" speakers on the mobile device and "good" speakers on a mobile device is the difference between "bleh" and "horrible."
Yes, it's better, but still never "good." What I'm saying is audio reproduction via speaker on a phone has yet to get to the point where it's a definitive, must have feature.

That's the worst analogy I've ever heard or seen in print in recent memory, and completely misrepresents what I posted.

And the last time I said, "wow, these make all the difference in the world in the experience I'm having right now" was with the HTC One.
Go figure.
The speakers on these aren't horrible or "bleh". They are good.
Speakers matter, even on smartphones. Do you know why? It's because there are plenty of cases where I'm not using headphones, though of course for quality I prefer to use headphones (and the built in amp does a geat job there, too). For instance, sharing videos when I'm with friends. I'm not likely to do the Galaxy "clink" of phones even if I had a S3 or S4; like most people, if I'm at a friend's house or traveling and don't have a large screen at my disposal, a phone becomes a reasonable way to share discovered videos or music.

Also, I love to listen to my music, radio (through apps like TuneIn or by web browser), or podcasts and not have earbuds in or larger headphones on my ears all the time. It's a comfort issue. I'm sure you have heard of portable external speakers, right? For a long time people have been buying portable external speakers to use with their mp3 players and phones. Mostly cheap ones that are tinny and don't have a lot of bass, but they get the job done on the go and still manage to be better than admittedly crappy cell phone speakers back-facing speakers. No one buys those portable externals to fill a concert hall, but they used to be practically a requirement just to hear across a small room.

With the One that has changed. The speakers might not be the quality of premium $100+ portable speakers, but they do a good enough job that I don't mind using the One as a small stereo at my desk to listen to music or the spoken word. If you think the speakers don't make a difference, well most of the reviewers and owners of the HTC One would disagree with you. It's fine if you feel otherwise, but you may or may not represent most people. Front-facing makes a big enough difference that the question for those who have used the One has become, "why cant ALL phones have front facing speakers?" It's too early for phones shipping now to start having similar design, but in 1 to 3 years it would surprise me at all if we saw lot more phones with "BoomSound"-like implementation of speakers.

Having the best speakers of any smartphone isn't just a small feature. It's also helps for speakerphone and ringer volume. The One doesn't just get loud, it's also very clear with minimal distortion even at max. They may not be a "definitive, must have feature" but I can't think of anything that is except for the things that make a smartphone a smartphone.

It's a big reason, for sure. I'm still not convinced it's the major one. Even for people who don't "need" the SD/battery having them seems better than not having them. We keep bringing the "average" user into this discussion because of the Moto X -- the display on the S4 is larger and with better black levels and contrast than the One.

Just like "torch mode" used to sell TVs in a brightly lit showroom this alone might account for better sales. I'd vastly prefer LCD to OLED myself, but I won't deny the "punch" of seeing one in store. If they were sold outside, in sunlight, I would bet far fewer "average joes" would buy the S4.

The HTC One has a brighter display that is more accurate except when the S4 is in "movie mode", and with higher DPI. The S4 has higher saturation and contrast, though. There are advantages and tradeoffs to both. I've used and seen both screens next to each other and not just in a store environment, and like I said earlier I don't mind having either. Both are really good and better than the Moto X.

That said, from all reports, the Moto X screen is "good enough" even if it isn't 1080p or with the best color reproduction. I'm sure most users won't complain about the screen on the Moto X, not unless they are coming from an S4 or One or other 1080p screen (not really an upgrade going from those phones to the Moto X).

Possibly. A lot of whether a device is a hit or a miss has to do with the initial tech buzz. The best buzz so far about th Moto X is "it should be good enough for the likes of you, you don't need a premium device." Tech spec hounds get asked for product adice all the time and if asked whether someone should get a Moto X my answer would be "heck no, look at the S4, One, iPhone 5 (and soon the LG G2)" I'm by far not in a minority. It'll take a lot of ads to overcome the advice of basement dwellers whom your "average joes" turn to.

The battery life could be the major selling point. As you rightly pointed out before, there are users concerned with battery life, however swapping batteries or external isn't palatable to most heavy users like execs, people in construction, nurses or doctors, or anyone else working long shifts with no ready access or time to charge devices. For them a phone that truly lasts all day on a single charge with moderate to heavy use could be a good reason to ignore the minor differences (in a non-tech person's eyes) of display quality and processor speed. By all initial accounts the Moto X is actually pretty fast in real usage, being competitive with the other flagships.

Those obsessed with specs can show disdain for the Moto X all they want, but from my viewpoint it looks to be the most marketable phone out there. They don't have to get every single person out there with niche demands, they only need to appeal to the majority - or even less - of those in the market for a new high-end smartphone to make killing. Plenty of people will still by the S4, but after all the commercials start airing and buzz starts building, I can easily see people going for the customizable, non-generic looking phone that performs smoothly and speedily and has nifty features that Google has put in there. The specs of the S4, One, LG G2, or whatever else is available after the Moto X launches won't matter as much to the general population.

I'm happy sticking with my phone, but if the Moto X had come out several months ago I would have given it serious consideration. I'm done arguing One vs S4, by the way, both are good phones and this isn't the thread for that. I end up repeating myself each time someone brings it up, and I'm tired of debating. Just get whatever works for you. If the S4 fits your needs and your wife's needs and all your colleagues and friends' needs, too, that's great. I'm happy for you.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
I think my point was that basically the Moto X really pushes the AOSP look to the mainstream crowd. It's Motorola's offering against the GS4, HTC One, etc. I'm kinda disappointed it wasn't marketed around the world, but I'm in the US anyway, and plus I'm not getting this phone... but still if we take the US market only for this discussion, I think now people will be more aware of this vanilla Android interface.

There may be plenty of people out there like you who will prefer TouchWiz, and maybe more people will continue to prefer TouchWiz over Holo Android, but at least now the vanilla Android interface is out there for everyone to use, not just as a Verizon exclusive. So perhaps this isn't the phone us techies were looking for or this isn't the flagship that was going to steamroll Samsung, HTC Sony, or LG, but its something, but as long as it isn't a failure like Blackberry's Z10 or something I'd say Moto made a positive step forward.

See this is where you are missing the point. I dont particularly prefer TW. I do miss all the things that TW (or sense, or [insert skin of choice here]) bring functionality wise. I dont give a stuff what a few of the stock icons look like and I certainly dont care what colour the toggles are. I bet if you set up a GE S4 and a TW S4 with the same wallpaper, launcher and widgets most users wouldn't notice the difference until they tried to use some functions that are missing in the GE.

In short its not about TW being better than anything, its about people pushing AOSP as if its the second coming and that if Moto uses ASOP it will succeed.

Moto isnt going to succeed by making the same mistakes they have always made but just wrapping them in an AOSP skin.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
BTW, do we know what "natural language processor" and "contextual computing processor" are in Motorola's X8 engine?
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Moto X v. S4 v. One

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lX0OKEIqH7w

Not a review, but it lets you get the feel of Moto X's physical appearance. I think it can hold its own against the big guys with a little bit of price reduction. Moto X looks thicker than Nexus 4 at its waste, though, which is strange considering it lacks wireless charging.

Watched this a few days ago, and didn't come away thinking the X was junk. It looks good.

Its pricing thats all wrong for it though. If they want to move any quantities of this phone, that price needs to be slashed considerably.
 

Sid59

Lifer
Sep 2, 2002
11,879
3
81
Video review here .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJTlB_S7ct0

cliff notes from reviewer:
* despite specs on sheet, the experience is butter smooth
* despite the small battery, the battery life is really good
* great screen
* quirks in the Moto UI
* terribad Camera, he hopes an update is in the works to make it better
 

Zink

Senior member
Sep 24, 2009
209
0
0
Video review here .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJTlB_S7ct0

cliff notes from reviewer:
* despite specs on sheet, the experience is butter smooth
* despite the small battery, the battery life is really good
* great screen
* quirks in the Moto UI
* terribad Camera, he hopes an update is in the works to make it better
Sounds awesome, I'd rather have this than a HTC One or a GS4. Too bad about the camera.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
Video review here .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJTlB_S7ct0

cliff notes from reviewer:
* despite specs on sheet, the experience is butter smooth
* despite the small battery, the battery life is really good
* great screen
* quirks in the Moto UI
* terribad Camera, he hopes an update is in the works to make it better

need battery life numbers on verizons juice sucking 4g network before we start making claims on battery life
 

openwheel

Platinum Member
Apr 30, 2012
2,044
17
81
Verizon's LTE has not been sucking juice for some time now. My Moto Razr M gets better battery life than my fiance's iPhone5, and we are both on Verizon LTE.

Only the older generation of chipsets sucked battery dry.
 

T_Yamamoto

Lifer
Jul 6, 2011
15,007
795
126
Verizon's LTE has not been sucking juice for some time now. My Moto Razr M gets better battery life than my fiance's iPhone5, and we are both on Verizon LTE.

Only the older generation of chipsets sucked battery dry.

I'm still waiting for a phone that will blow my mind....
 

Cobalt

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2000
4,642
1
81
Got my voucher for the Moto X from work (AT&T) on Friday and immediately made mine on Moto Maker when it went live later that night. Should be receiving it by Tuesday so I'll post my thoughts after I've had a few hours to play with it.
 

Shackanaw

Member
Aug 14, 2013
73
0
0
Motorola Reveals More X8 Chip Details:
"We've done additional optimizations on top of that such as optimizing the entire Linux user space to move it to an ARM instruction set, cache optimization, Dalvik just-in-time optimization, and we've changed the file system"

Sounds like they've done a decent amount of work to ensure that the software runs as efficiently as possible. Or, they could just be vomiting up technobabble. After all, they did try to market this as an 8-core package.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
Got my voucher for the Moto X from work (AT&T) on Friday and immediately made mine on Moto Maker when it went live later that night. Should be receiving it by Tuesday so I'll post my thoughts after I've had a few hours to play with it.

Please do! I'm rather interested in it personally. I've got to get a smartphone and since I'm not going to be a power user per se, I'm interested in it since they're trying to emphasize the UI and user experience.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Motorola Reveals More X8 Chip Details:


Sounds like they've done a decent amount of work to ensure that the software runs as efficiently as possible. Or, they could just be vomiting up technobabble. After all, they did try to market this as an 8-core package.

They're vomiting up technobabble and marketing jargon. If they hadn't started their pitch by calling it a octocore package, they'd have credibility.
 
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