Motor Trend Head 2 Head - Mazdaspeed 3 vs Focus ST

[thedarkwolf]

My "cool" car has been parked in my garage for 6 months with a blown engine. Having two cars is nice in that situation but it also has made me lazy and given me the excuse not to work on it. Back when my beater was a real beater I'd drive my "cool" car about half the time but now my beater is nicer than my "cool" car and the idea of diving a car that has a really stiff suspension isn't as appealing. Now my "cool" car will probably only really be driven to autox events and the occasional nice day. The idea of selling both my cars and picking up a do it all WRX wagon looks pretty good.

 

[power_hour]

*removed*

 

[jlee]

i agree with this generally, but the problem is not owning 2 cars for me other than having a place to park them.

so then you end up buying 1 car and trying to make the best of it. i guess for some people they get the better driving car, and others go for more practical.

like if i had 2 cars and say a house, i'd have no problem say buying a cheaper car like a honda fit, and say a miata as my impractical 2nd car but i think if you only have 1 car, i think its just too hard to go way too far on the impractical side.

friend of mine keeps saying i should just buya cayman or something as my next car, and among other reasons i say it'll never happen (on top of being expensive, it just has too many drawbacks as an only car)

If I could only have one, it'd probably be as new of a Forester XT I could get with a manual transmission.

Fortunately, I can have four. Not too hard to do if you get 'em cheap (and have parking..).

Though I definitely know the feeling of not dedicating as much time to a car as I should because I have spares...if I only had two cars, I'd have poured a lot more time into my MR2 to get it back up in case #2 went down.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

I don't understand why someone would choose a Focus ST or MS3 over the WRX.

Dat torque steer D:

It's easy to say that before you actually start talking numbers. Not MSRP numbers but actual numbers.

Now this may not be the case for everyone and price can vary large depending where you live but the WRX was my first choice.

Like you and most people I preferred it over the MS3 and other HB competitors in this price range due to it being AWD and having almost the most power in the group.

It was pretty much a no brainer to pick a WRX. It also didn't have a goofy smile like the MS3. MSRP wise they're both close to 25k before ttl but when I actually went to look for cars on the lots the results were much different.

Part of the reason might have been because there was a shortage of WRX/STi's the year i went to look (2012) and that probably did not help the negotiating of the price but when it came down to it, to get the WRX i wanted (base/black) I would have to do an order from the factory which was like a 3+ month wait in addition to paying pretty much MSRP + TTL (which in cali is like 28.5K+ OTD)

At this point you're looking at almost 30k for a base WRX plus you have to wait.

At the same time my back up plan was the MS3 which, checking around a few dealers gave me great deals right off the bat. I was able to get one in the color I liked for less than MSRP OTD. Now the price difference ~3.5k may not be a lot to some people but when you start taking into consideration things like a better interior, better creature comforts, a six speed, and no wait time the choice becomes much tougher especially since there's not a huge need for AWD where I'm at.

While people may crap on FWD all day long, the MS3 does handle brilliantly for what it is and is a blast to drive, have not regretted my decision at all.

Of course other people don't go through such long winded decision processes to pick the MS3 but after doing so, weighing the pro's and con's between those 2 cars are trickier than they appear.

Edit: also that goofy smile grows on you :awe:

 

[Atty]

Although I have driven none of the three... I'd be very shocked if I'd choose either of the FWD cars over a RWD FRS.

In traffic I've found the ST, MS3, and my GTI to be much more fun than the FRS. Like it or not, that is where we spend most of our time. On the road putting power down, there isn't much difference in the delivery of all those cars. The FRS doesn't sprint ahead like any of those turbo'd cars do. My GTI feels like an olympic sprinter when I put my foot down in front of a clear stretch of road. The FRS just sort of "moved a bit more quickly". The interior is also very low rent. In a few years when this car can be purchased for cheap and used as a track only car it will be perfect. Bolt on turbo kits, roll cage, and you will smile ear to ear while driving sideways.

Would love to see how the next gen GTi stands up to these. Right now it's supposed to be 200 pounds lighter than the previous generation, and up 20HP and 50ft/lbs putting it right in line with these two cars. Not sure if the mechanical diff is making it stateside or not. Good time for hot hatches.

I'm a little upset we didn't get a 7-Speed DSG out of the new GTI. I'm excited for them to hit US shores but America is also getting the Diesel GTI aka the GTD. My biggest complaint in my GTI most days is that my 6th gear feels like its set up for power and not cruising mileage. Premium gas gets expensive . /firstworldproblems

 

[Aharami]

I'm a little upset we didn't get a 7-Speed DSG out of the new GTI. I'm excited for them to hit US shores but America is also getting the Diesel GTI aka the GTD. My biggest complaint in my GTI most days is that my 6th gear feels like its set up for power and not cruising mileage. Premium gas gets expensive . /firstworldproblems

highly looking forward to the GTD!

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Why pick any of these over a 300hp v6 mustang for 20k~?

 

[Aharami]

Why pick any of these over a 300hp v6 mustang for 20k~?

practicality. people who want to drive more than 1 other person at a time.

<-- likes the mustang

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

practicality. people who want to drive more than 1 other person at a time.

<-- likes the mustang

Get the wife a SUV. Problem solved.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Why pick any of these over a 300hp v6 mustang for 20k~?

Not everyone enjoys the muscle car look.

I appreciate the Mustang for what it is and what it can do especially recently but it's largely not to my tastes even if it's a massive performance bargain.

I prefer my coupes to be a bit smaller.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Torque Steer?

Didn't TG:UK recently review a high-HP hatch Vauxhall that pretty much found a way to eliminate TQS?

 

[exar333]

Although I have driven none of the three... I'd be very shocked if I'd choose either of the FWD cars over a RWD FRS.

FRS is good for rear-set amputees.

 

[Zap]

I met my wife while I owned that car... I have a lot of fond memories in that car despite its many shortcomings. It looked good, was reasonably fast, had that top down goodness and it was reliable.

Me too! Well, my wife, not yours. Mine was a Canyon Red 1986 Mustang GT with T-tops. Was dating my wife at the time, and she always knew when I rolled up to her place from hearing the rumble of the engine.

 

[Jthewood]

Why pick any of these over a 300hp v6 mustang for 20k~?

True, the Mustang is a great performance buy, but it's not the most efficient vehicle on the road. Much better mpg can easily be found in the smaller hot-hatches.

 

[Arkaign]

True, the Mustang is a great performance buy, but it's not the most efficient vehicle on the road. Much better mpg can easily be found in the smaller hot-hatches.

It's pretty good though, 21/30 I think? I can understand the subjective preference for the ST/Speed3 for some folks, but that 3.7 with the 6spd is crazy fast for the price. To really get the nutty ~5 second 0-60 and nearly 1G grip you have to get the upgraded package though, and they seem fairly rare on dealer lots, as well as marked up a bit. I found one I really liked, and it was close to $30k sticker! I think it's somewhat of a hidden gem. The muscle car purists don't like it much due to no V8 monster torque, but it's a very legit sports car with the numbers on pace with much more expensive/reputable competition. Probably a lot of the impact would be lost if paired with an automatic, but with the manual and the approach of driving it like a V6 sports car (think Z/etc), it's ludicrously good value. It's fairly large, but drives like a perceived smaller car. The 370Z base coupe is 3,245lbs, the Mustang V6 Premium slots in at 3,450. This compares well to WRX @ 3370lbs, Speed3 @ 3280lbs, and Focus ST @ 3223lbs, when you consider the 305hp/280tq powerplant. IOW, the Mustang V6 is fairly close weight to the i4 turbo crowd, while having a bit more performance. The FRS/BRZ are a different animal altogether, tons less weight, and tons less power, and that can be good/bad depending on application and preference.

Honestly it's win/win with all of these great cars in the sub $30k range. The Mustang V6 wasn't even a valid option until very recently. Not even valid, it was unthinkable.

 

[cr2250]

Picked up my Speed3 last night. That torque steer is awesome. Keeps me even more fully aware of driving in the lower gears.

And yes the price ~ all three the Speed ends up being the cheapest. I priced out each one. The ST is in such high demand right now that they're asking at least 23,500 before TTL (base package).

The WRX holds the Subaru brand, plus its a high demand car. AWD and good proven engine. I couldn't get one below 26,500 before TTL.

The Speed3, doesn't have crazy availability but it does have a much lower MSRP. I think around 24,500 is starting. I emailed the dealer and first email back was 21,400 before TTL.

 

[Zap]

Picked up my Speed3 last night.

'Grats!

The WRX holds the Subaru brand, plus its a high demand car. AWD and good proven engine. I couldn't get one below 26,500 before TTL.

Go through a buying service! We did for my wife's 2011 WRX, by going through AAA. We first went to several dealers on our own but didn't get very far that way. Through AAA we were contacted by a dealer which allowed us to actually order a car with the exact options we wanted, for dealer invoice +$200. It was the same for any Subaru through their agreement with getting sales leads through AAA, and the WRX was no different.

My suggestion request thread

My post purchase thread

 

[cr2250]

'Grats!



Go through a buying service! We did for my wife's 2011 WRX, by going through AAA. We first went to several dealers on our own but didn't get very far that way. Through AAA we were contacted by a dealer which allowed us to actually order a car with the exact options we wanted, for dealer invoice +$200. It was the same for any Subaru through their agreement with getting sales leads through AAA, and the WRX was no different.

My suggestion request thread

My post purchase thread

How different was the MSRP vs the dealers invoice pricing? Curious. I just used truecar and that happened to be the best negotiating tool.

Didn't know about AAA

 

[leper84]

It's pretty good though, 21/30 I think? I can understand the subjective preference for the ST/Speed3 for some folks, but that 3.7 with the 6spd is crazy fast for the price. To really get the nutty ~5 second 0-60 and nearly 1G grip you have to get the upgraded package though, and they seem fairly rare on dealer lots, as well as marked up a bit. I found one I really liked, and it was close to $30k sticker! I think it's somewhat of a hidden gem. The muscle car purists don't like it much due to no V8 monster torque, but it's a very legit sports car with the numbers on pace with much more expensive/reputable competition. Probably a lot of the impact would be lost if paired with an automatic, but with the manual and the approach of driving it like a V6 sports car (think Z/etc), it's ludicrously good value. It's fairly large, but drives like a perceived smaller car. The 370Z base coupe is 3,245lbs, the Mustang V6 Premium slots in at 3,450. This compares well to WRX @ 3370lbs, Speed3 @ 3280lbs, and Focus ST @ 3223lbs, when you consider the 305hp/280tq powerplant. IOW, the Mustang V6 is fairly close weight to the i4 turbo crowd, while having a bit more performance. The FRS/BRZ are a different animal altogether, tons less weight, and tons less power, and that can be good/bad depending on application and preference.

Honestly it's win/win with all of these great cars in the sub $30k range. The Mustang V6 wasn't even a valid option until very recently. Not even valid, it was unthinkable.

I really agree on the new v6 Mustangs. Just from driving one I'd put them almost on par with the old 4.6 3v GTs. In fact the funny thing is I bet the new v6 would be on par with the older s197 GTs if it had the same 3.55 gearing as they did. Its a shame Ford only put 2.73s in the v6. I think even the v6 performance pack only gets you up to 3.23s. I bet a v6 with 4.11s would smoke my car.

 

[iamwiz82]

I really do not understand the MS3 love on the internet. I've had a lot of seat time and I just do not like the car. It's just not a fun car at it's core.

 

[JCH13]

I really do not understand the MS3 love on the internet. I've had a lot of seat time and I just do not like the car. It's just not a fun car at it's core.

I have to totally disagree with you on that opinion. I think its a lot of fun. Every one of my friends (all car guys) who has driven it thinks its a lot of fun. My 57 y/o mother, who grew up in Detroit in the muscle car era, thinks its a lot of fun. It may not be your cup of tea, you may not understand it, but a lot of people find the MS3 to be a very enjoyable car. Good steering, great brakes, good shocks, and an absurd torque curve make it a lot of fun.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

I really do not understand the MS3 love on the internet. I've had a lot of seat time and I just do not like the car. It's just not a fun car at it's core.

Curious as to what you find un-fun about the car? Yes there's some under steer but a lot less than most FWD cars out there and yes there's torque steer but IMO it far from detracts from the car. Adds a bit of character to it really.

But aside from those two common 'complaints' The car does a lot of things beautifully (for the price).

Another thing i noticed that a lot of people that does the torque steer outcrys either never had seat time with the car or very little.

Most people that actually experienced the car don't find it too bad at all.