MPG question

[slag]

My dad drives the biggest piece of shit cavalier and boasts how he gets lower 30's in the car and he used to drive a Datsun that got 41 mpg. My response to him is so what? You are driving a piece of shit car that is falling apart, is uncomfortable, rattles, and in general sucks.

I drive 60 miles a day and really don't worry about mpg too much. I'm not rich, but have budgeted the gas expense so it is not a surprise.

Is mpg the most important thing on your mind when shopping for a car, or why place such an emphasis on it? Initial price and comfort are more important to me, am I the only one who feels that way?

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

I the only one who feels that way?

Yes. Yes you are the only one. How dare you. You should be ashamed

 

[Midwayman]

MPG is a concern, but fuel prices aren't high enough to make me go all eco-weenie yet.

 

[slag]

Yes. Yes you are the only one. How dare you. You should be ashamed

:'(

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

:'(

:awe:

I dont really pay attention to MPG at all. Im like you, I budget for it but dont try and get the best possible.
Although some people see a lot of savings by tracking and managing MPG, and this can be very beneficial to someone who has a tighter budget. If the cost of fuel is not a major concern for you, then take comfort in that. For some filling the gas tank takes away from food money (or alcohol money, or gambling money, or weed money, maybe a lil meth money, or a combination of all the above money.)

 

[JCH13]

Did a bunch of math for a co-worker who is trying to decide if he should keep his current vehicle (small truck) or get a new car that gets better mileage. He drives about 30k a year, so a 10mpg improvement from using a V6 Mustang would basically offset the difference in car payments and insurance.

So, because the fuel economy is better, he'd come out financially neutral with a car he enjoys driving more, is newer, and has a warranty.

I, on the other hand, put 10k or less on my primary vehicle every year, so I could not care less.

If you're doing 60mi/day at say 25mpg you're looking at $2200/yr in fuel costs just for work. If you got a Honda Civic and got 38mpg you're looking at $1400/yr in fuel costs, or $800 in savings/year, or $67/month. That doesn't include non-work driving either.

$67 per month, whoop-de-doo most people are thinking. It's gotta go into context: $67/mo is an extra $3-4k in buying power for an auto loan, or $15k in buying power for a mortgage. These depend on interest, term, etc. obviously. But my point is that freeing up that money in your budget can mean you get a nicer car, or a nicer house, or a smart phone data plan, or better internet/TV service. My point is that carefully considering the impact of fuel costs on your personal finances can help push the decision one way or another, and it is definitely worth considering very carefully if you have a longer commute. You have to weigh your priorities and choose accordingly.

 

[DougK62]

Why does it bother you that others are more concerned about fuel economy than you are?

 

[SearchMaster]

When shopping for a car? No, though two years ago when I was driving 18K miles a year it might have been.

However, I currently drive an old, boring car. It's not fun at all to drive, so the only 'fun' I can have is to keep the MPG as high as I can . The car is rated at 19/27 and I average 29 MPG (used to be 31 when I drove so much).

I've been looking at replacements (new or used) recently, and MPG is a factor but not an absolute determining factor.

 

[Midwayman]

Did a bunch of math for a co-worker who is trying to decide if he should keep his current vehicle (small truck) or get a new car that gets better mileage. He drives about 30k a year, so a 10mpg improvement from using a V6 Mustang would basically offset the difference in car payments and insurance.

So, because the fuel economy is better, he'd come out financially neutral with a car he enjoys driving more, is newer, and has a warranty.

Even including the depreciation on a newer car and the higher insurance, taxes, etc?

 

[Topweasel]

I find the different mindsets for the people that are largely mindful of their fuel usage to be one of three groups.

1.) A lower person on the totem pole of the Prius smugness crew. By decreasing their "carbon footprint" they feel as though they are actively doing something for the world and therefore better than people who consume large amounts of fuel. It makes them better people because they care (whether or not the care or attention is misguided).

2.) The money mindful (penny pinchers). If a person carefully tracks their spending when looking at a car they are going to pay more attention to the TCO and added monthly costs in fuel than most. Money doesn't even have to be tight either for them to care it's just they way they are. They are also more likely to keep a car well beyond the point they pay it off (but not necessarily waiting till a single repair exceeds value to dump it). When you say 21 MPG they immediately mentally explode as it could mean to them extra hundreds per month.

3. The Commuters. Working 30-100 miles from work. It adds up quick. I did this for a while in a Neon RT and later a Nitro SXT. Neon could get me 28 MPG while I was thrashing it and racing down the highway. The Nitro would top out at about 23MPG and relied on me cruising 10-15 miles under the speed limit. Reasonably driven I was getting 30 in the Neon and 20 in the Nitro. 140 Miles a day meant every work day I would be using 2 gallons more on the Nitro then the Neon. 10 a week. ~500 over the course of a year. It is hard to value a car no matter what the amenities are even if driving the "eco" car meant it felt like a smart car, to make up for that kind of shift in cost.

Thanks to a shift in more gears and balanced turbo charging there is a move towards keeping certain ranges of cars fun to drive without destroying economy. But those same tweaks will find themselves in "eco" boxes as well starting the cycle all over again.

 

[iamwiz82]

Both of my cars do well over 30mpg and are both fun to drive. Win-Win for me.

 

[Topweasel]

Both of my cars do well over 30mpg and are both fun to drive. Win-Win for me.

Same here for me. Mines a fun mid-size. But I think the sticking point is that it's easier to keep smaller lighter cars fun with an engine that doesn't suck down fuel like a 2 dollar street walker.

 

[kalrith]

Since there are comfortable cars that get good gas mileage, I'm not sure why the OP sets it up as either/or.

I think it's smart to look at overall cost of ownership, so initial cost + gas + maintenance/repairs + insurance over the life of the vehicle (or at least 5 years). I made a spreadsheet with the 5-year cost of several vehicle choices, and that really helped me make my choice. I also put how long it would take to recoup the up-front cost of my new vehicle through gas savings. I drive 25k miles per year, so gas costs are a very large expense for me.

I found a '98 Saturn SW2 w/ 80k miles on it for $1,950. It gets 35 mpg compared to 22 on my old car ('92 Mercury Cougar), and it's in better shape and more comfortable. It saves me $130 in gas every month and will pay for itself in 16 months.

Yes, I could just budget the extra $130 in gas every month, but I'd rather spend that money on something else. Another way to look at it is this. If two cars cost $2k up-front, the 5-year costs (initial + gas) will be $16k for a 35mpg car and $23k for a 22mpg car. That 22mpg car had better be really, really comfortable to be worth the $7k extra.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Anybody who does not take into account the total cost of ownership of their primary transportation. is a fool.

If your car is a daily driver, then fuel economy is an important piece of the puzzle.

If you plan to drive 200,000 miles, then at 10MPG, that's 20000 gallons of gas. At 20MPG, that's 10,000 gallons of gas. At 40mpg, that's 5000 gallons of gas.

As you can see, there are diminishing returns as fuel economy increases.

insurance + gas + purchase price for me for 200K miles (or about 25K per year for 8 years) minus predicted/projected value of car afterwards when it gets sold or traded in....

20000 gallons vs 5000 gallons over the life of the car adds up to a LOT of money .... especially when gas is fvcking expensive, (currently over $4.25 in Chicago area.)

If Gas averages $4 per gallon over the next 8 years ... then we are talking about $80,000 vs $20,000 .....

That is HUGE.

 

[Legios]

My dad drives the biggest piece of shit cavalier and boasts how he gets lower 30's in the car and he used to drive a Datsun that got 41 mpg. My response to him is so what? You are driving a piece of shit car that is falling apart, is uncomfortable, rattles, and in general sucks.

You will wonder where all the money came from when your dad finally passes, you can thank him for driving good mileage beaters. :biggrin:

 

[kitatech]

MPG is but one aspect of auto costs...

I buy cars I like so I will keep them a lot longer, saving money that way...more people buy a car because they tire of their old one...that costs more than any MPG savings....

I buy used cars so I save a lot more that way...many people spend thousands more to save hundreds on gas...I don't drive enough for that to make much of a difference.

I buy 4-bangers rather than 6cyl engines because they're more efficient around town where I do most of my driving....4-bangers cost less than their 6cyl counterparts....

I only buy manual trannies, to save there in terms of MPG (though that's not much of a difference any more...but the stick gets more bang out of the 4-bangers than an AT does) as well as potential repair costs down the road...

I like the idea of 15" rims so I don't have to pay more for tires.

Each of such strategies may not amount to much but combined they all add up....overall operating costs, not to mention cheaper insurance, saves more than MPG alone...

All my cars, going back 40+ years always got 20-25mpg in town and 30-35 on the highway...the current Camry is at the top end of those ranges...35mpg @ 70mph is just fine...

I'm not OCD about MPG, but it's good to know what it is, just in case it drops drastically as a result of a mechanical problem.

 

[Midwayman]

If Gas averages $4 per gallon over the next 8 years ... then we are talking about $80,000 vs $20,000 .....

That is HUGE.

Sure, but you're also talking going from 10mpg to 40mpg. More realistically you're normally looking at going from maybe 22-23 to 30ish

My car will cost about $24k in gas over 8 years at current fuel prices. A much more unpleasant econobox getting 30mpg would be $17k over 8 years. $7k isn't chump change by any means, but I'd much rather drive the nicer car with enough power to safely merge, etc in Chicago.

 

[Throckmorton]

I was just reading a thread on Ecomodder last night, where a guy talked about aero modding his Mustang to get higher than the 26mpg highway he was getting. One of the replies was "Why not buy a Geo Metro and get 40mpg"? My thought was the same as yours-- that a Geo Metro is an unsafe, slow, tin can.

Of course the main reason I don't care about gas mileage much, aside from highway for my trips to Dallas, is that my commute is 4 miles each way to the bus station.

 

[Throckmorton]

BTW one quirk of looking at MPG instead of gallons per mile (or L/100km) is that your perception gets distorted. 5mpg difference is less of a big deal when you're going from 25mpg to 30mpg than it is going from 15 to 20mpg, because the change is a smaller percentage of a smaller amount of gasoline.

15 mpg = 15.7 L/100km
20 mpg = 11.8 L/100km
25 mpg = 9.4 L/100km
30 mpg = 7.8 L/100km
35 mpg = 6.7 L/100km
40 mpg = 5.9 L/100km

See how the diff between 35 and 40mpg is only 0.8 L/100km? Meanwhile the diff betweeen 20 and 25 is 2.4 L/100km! You get diminishing returns at higher mileage.

 

[Vic Vega]

It's not really important to me, no.

I've driven V8s forever... I have a 4-banger turbo now. Guess what? Not much better than the V8 in real life. (waits for the Internet to rage).

 

[LTC8K6]

Often such MPG braggers are way off, and are actually getting much lower mileage.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Luckily, no. Oddly enough my current car is getting about the same mileage as my old 2002 corolla lmao. I'm sure there were things that were wrong with it to get that kind of mileage so the difference I pay for gas is barely noticeable.

 

[JCH13]

Even including the depreciation on a newer car and the higher insurance, taxes, etc?

We had factors in there for maintenance costs, insurance, and taxes, but not depreciation. He generally owns vehicles for 10+ years, usually until they're worth <$1k. That is to say, he drives the wheels off, so depreciation is basically irrelevant, so it was ignored.

 

[kitatech]

Often such MPG braggers are way off, and are actually getting much lower mileage.

I don't have the patience to do 55 and get those high numbers, or the guts to be the slowest car on I95...

 

[Midwayman]

We had factors in there for maintenance costs, insurance, and taxes, but not depreciation. He generally owns vehicles for 10+ years, usually until they're worth <$1k. That is to say, he drives the wheels off, so depreciation is basically irrelevant, so it was ignored.

Only really irrelevant if the service period and purchase price are similar. Just means that depreciation ~= 100%. I doubt it would amount to much monthly difference in your scenario, but its a large factor when people are looking at new tech like hybrids.