Mr. K6's 6950 -> 7970 Overclocking Review

[BallaTheFeared]

Who said anything about stock?

 

[Johnny Doe]

So you're all after price/performance now. Like I said, then you should of known that the 7970 isn't the card for you. It's an impressive card. Period. Aside of the 5870, no card has ever gotten as high OC's. It's based on a hot new 28nm silicone, which makes the card a better choice than shit like 6990 + 6950. You can't deny this GPU's capabilities by itself alone.

 

[Skurge]

1000+ wasn't what people were looking forward to.

They were looking forward to a chip that responded to voltage allowing greater clocks than the 1125 every reviewer seemed to get on stock voltage.

Most cards were getting 1100mhz+ in that thread on STOCK volts and stock cooling. Some people would have gone higher, but they hit a temp limit. I also wonder how many people left the fan on auto.

We know that the 7970 loves the cold. The cooler you can get it, the higher it will clock. I'd like you to show me another top end GPU that clocked that much on the stock cooler, stock PCB and stock voltage.

Add to that the fact that the 7970 scales better with clock speed than any other card I've seen. I'm not sure how you couldn't be impressed.

Mrk6 is getting 1175mhz out of his card. Which is a massive increase. He card even overclocks while undervolted.

 

[MrK6]

Be careful, AMD may have cherry picked for reviews.
Seem you're not the only one whose gotten a "dud".

Well, that's what I'm hoping to find out. People are also getting similar high overclocks to what some reviews saw, so it's all over the place. On the flip-side, XFX may be binning for it's Black Edition DD cards. Gigabyte only offers their one card for now, and it should be a reference design and unbinned. So we'll see is all I can really say at the moment.

I saw a one-star review on Newegg about XFX and how not all 7970s have lifetime warranties. Wondered if the guy was on crack. Get's it's more that XFX's policy is a crock. If they aren't offering lifetime warranties on all 7970s, I'd just ditch them for a better brand from here on out...hope your Gigabyte works better.

Thanks, that's what I'm hoping too. :thumbsup:.

People at [H] have a user overclocking thread going on and on 3 pages almost every single person has hit 1000+ mhz lol.
Source:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1665293&page=3

1000+ wasn't what people were looking forward to.

They were looking forward to a chip that responded to voltage allowing greater clocks than the 1125 every reviewer seemed to get on stock voltage.

While it's true that some reviews did max out on stock volts in the 1050-1100 range, most hit 1125+ on stock, and close to 1.3GHz with volts. For me, I don't put a $550 card under water that doesn't respond to voltage.

With voltage I doubt there will be a chip that won't reach 1200. Most of these overclocks are on stock voltage which is pretty freaking good. The only other recent card that overclocked this well was the GTX 460 I believe.

5850's. Mine went from 725 -> 1050 (45%).

He's not the only one, people aren't getting much with voltage tweaking from what I've been reading.

It's more that the performance is not consistent. Some apps I can run at 1150 on stock volts, some won't run until I back it down to 1075. That's an insane range over which to be somewhat unstable, but still run. It's just odd.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Could have something to do with power delivery, does powertune even work for 7 series right now?

It could also be some form of ovp, I've been dealing with that a lot on my cards

 

[Skurge]

Who said anything about stock?

The 7970 OC's more than a 470 so his point still holds.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

MHz wise, yes... But not % over factory at least not so far, unless you're talking about the LN2 run

It's pretty easy for me to exceed overclocked 7970 performance by 30% where cpu limitations aren't incurred, which makes since as 470s aren't crap, neither are 7970s.

 

[Johnny Doe]

If you're going to make a comparison, make it proper. Either compare factory OC'ed boards (which are a waste of money) or don't compare a factory OC'ed 7970 to a user OC'ed 470. Do I really need to mention how factory OC'ed those shitty eVGA SC cards were? 50 Mhz or something more to rip people off.

You're being dishonest and you're incorrect at best. If you honestly think your OC'ed 470's are %30 faster than an OC'ed 7970, then I'd say you're not even close to being accurate. You're pulling numbers out of your ass. Let it go.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Make another thread, so I can show you with proof.

Check your PM's, let it go that's almost 60% faster.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Why? I don't even know why I'm wasting time with this old, DISHONEST horse that's still getting beaten. You're the one that needs to show me the proof, not me. It's not my claim that OC 470's beat an OC'ed 7970 by %30 at AVERAGE, right?

Look, both the 470's and the 7970 beat a 580 by a similar amount at stock. Once OC'ed, they get head to head. However, the 7970 OC's beyond a pair of 470's. It can and has the potential to outperform 470 SLi on a very high OC, which is plausible seeing the numbers out there.

I'm done as long as you keep on blabbering.

 

[Skurge]

MHz wise, yes... But not % over factory at least not so far, unless you're talking about the LN2 run

It's pretty easy for me to exceed overclocked 7970 performance by 30% where cpu limitations aren't incurred, which makes since as 470s aren't crap, neither are 7970s.

So let me get this right, you are comparing you're watercooled 470s against air cooled stock 7970s?


People are getting 1100mhz to 1200mhz on the stock cooler and stock PCB. 7970 at 1.2ghz is 50-80% faster than a slightly OC'd 580. 30% faster than a 7970? I don't think so. If you WC that 7970 is going to blow your 470s out the water. We'll see once MrK6 gets a new card and puts it in his loop.

Nobody said the 470 is a crap card, my 6870 performs the same. So it isn't a crap card. Don't know why you brought that up.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Ignore him, 2 posts above he was mentioning 470's to beat a 7970 by %60. He posted a bunch of BS to my PM; benches of nVidia/Intel setups with their specs hidden... always against an OC'ed 7970 while beating it marginally. I had to put him on my ignore list because he kept going on. OC'ed 470's on air wouldn't even beat a max OC'ed 7970 significantly, let alone beating by the figures he's pulling out of thin air.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Don't know why you brought that up.

This is what I said:

Yeah the only redeeming quality for last gen products right now is AMD priced the 7970 so high. You can get three GTX 470s for less than one 7970, and you only need two to beat a 7970.

I thought it was harmless, and I stated it based on what I know from seeing the results from reviews of overclocked cards.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Appereantly, there aren't any reviews with both head-to-head. So you're wrong! Look here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1192382/sapphire-hd7970/40#post_16073485

 

[Grooveriding]

Since I do not want to read the past three pages of hardware insecurity and outrageous claims about some 470s.

Mrk6, did you end up able to give the card voltage and not get clocks you were hoping for ? Or could you not apply voltage in the first place ? Thanks, interested to hear on results.

Saw some posts of people saying to avoid the standard XFX design because they may have taken the best cores and put them in the DD BE version. Just wondering on your results as you have the standard XFX.

 

[GaiaHunter]

It is obvious that if a company doesn't release a product at a certain clock it is because it isn't economically feasible, either due to not enough chips passing their quality testes at their target power consumptions and/or the pcb component cost for a reference design to operate at those clocks is too high.

Obviously some cards will reach those clocks, possibly even a high percentage of them, but, most likely, it was determined it is better to sell more products at a lower performance, even if having some with higher performance potential than releasing 2 products, one consisting of >1GHz products at price X and one product at the current 7970 stocks at price lower than X.

In pretty much every sector/activity involving mass production there is a point both producers and their clients agree that a percentage of the products won't be perfect. I mean, they could be perfect, but instead of a product costing X it would cost, for example, 100X.

When/if the yields reach a point when it is economically feasible to release all the 7970 at >1.1GHz, I wouldn't be surprised to see, either a new model (aka as refresh) or the market inundated with OC models.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Saw some posts of people saying to avoid the standard XFX design because they may have taken the best cores and put them in the DD BE version. Just wondering on your results as you have the standard XFX.

No single company "bins" retail boards. When you buy a card off the shelf (or Newegg), your OC'ing potential depends entirely on your luck. One card may OC more than the other or the other way around. The amount of manwork involved in handpicking is so much that it makes the hardware cost at least a few hundred $ more. You can't just expect them to stop the machinery and pick cores one by one, then put a $10-20 higher price tag on it.

The only instance of a binned product I recall right now is the X58 UD9, which had a binned IOH to make up for it's $700 price tag.

Other than that, that XFX could OC easier due to the custom cooler.

 

[Grooveriding]

No single company "bins" retail boards. When you buy a card off the shelf (or Newegg), your OC'ing potential depends entirely on your luck. One card may OC more than the other or the other way around. The amount of manwork involved in handpicking is so much that it makes the hardware cost at least a few hundred $ more. You can't just expect them to stop the machinery and pick cores one by one, then put a $10-20 higher price tag on it.

The only instance of a binned product I recall right now is the X58 UD9, which had a binned IOH to make up for it's $700 price tag.

Other than that, that XFX could OC easier due to the custom cooler.

This is the process most manufacturers follow I believe. He makes the distinction between 'cherry picking' which they don't do and 'binning' which they do.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1032362/the-concept-of-binning-vs-cherry-picking-gpu-chips

 

[GaiaHunter]

This is the process most manufacturers follow I believe. He makes the distinction between 'cherry picking' which they don't do and 'binning' which they do.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1032362/the-concept-of-binning-vs-cherry-picking-gpu-chips

Although recently there has been complains about some factory OC cards, mostly of what I've seen in the forums GTX560 (I believe both ti or not ti), but there might be more cases and it is more noticeable on the GTX560 since it is reasonably price card with a bunch of custom products, not working properly at the factory OC and only working at reference stock speeds.

So, I'm not sure how good is AIB binning atm (it can be good and the reported cases just be the "normal freaky cases" in any process).

 

[Johnny Doe]

This is the process most manufacturers follow I believe. He makes the distinction between 'cherry picking' which they don't do and 'binning' which they do.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1032362/the-concept-of-binning-vs-cherry-picking-gpu-chips

Well, those words are interchangeable. That's exactly what I was referring to, OC'ing potential on retail samples aren't tested. He's talking about how the cards are made. "Bin" or "cherry picked", thing is, beyond what you buy your OC'ing mileage depends on your luck.

If those cards were in fact cherry picked, they'd have cost $100-200 more to say at least, not $10-20 more. It takes manwork to pick chips one by one.

All the companies do is to OC cards by factory via a BIOS flash, which makes them a rip-off. If you're going to buy a card, get reference, and OC yourself I mean. Rather than falling for those "SuperClocked", "FTW" nonsense.

So, I'm not sure how good is AIB binning atm (it can be good and the reported cases just be the "normal freaky cases" in any process).

AIB's don't do anything other than flashing the BIOS. All nVidia boards are made by Flextronics in Taiwan, who also makes the AX1200. Companies then put their own sticker on before shipping them out.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Well, those words are interchangeable. That's exactly what I was referring to, OC'ing potential on retail samples aren't tested. He's talking about how the cards are made. "Bin" or "cherry picked", thing is, beyond what you buy your OC'ing mileage depends on your luck.

If those cards were in fact cherry picked, they'd have cost $100-200 more to say at least, not $10-20 more. It takes manwork to pick chips one by one.

All the companies do is to OC cards by factory via a BIOS flash, which makes them a rip-off. If you're going to buy a card, get reference, and OC yourself I mean. Rather than falling for those "SuperClocked", "FTW" nonsense.



AIB's don't do anything other than flashing the BIOS. All nVidia boards are made by Flextronics in Taiwan, who also makes the AX1200. Companies then put their own sticker on before shipping them out.

There are non-reference boards, those can increase OC potential, reduce power consumption etc.

 

[ader098]

Gigabytes explains their Binning process here.

http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/72/feature.html

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I'd like to apologize to everyone first and foremost, it wasn't my intention to get called out and have to back up what I said.

Appereantly, there aren't any reviews with both head-to-head. So you're wrong! Look here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1192382/sapphire-hd7970/40#post_16073485

Brett's talking about 700 core, at 800/820 he scores much higher but because he's running 1200p he doesn't need to run them that high because of fan noise.

Even so, at 700 his are faster.

Now to the meat of this, when I said 30%, I meant mine.

7970 @ 1125 (highest he can do with voltage added was 1175 but has chosen to use 1125 because it doesn't require extra voltage)

VS

470 SLI @ 930 core

CoP:

470s are faster by:

Test1: 35%
Test2: 50%
Test3: 55%
Test4: 55%

Crysis 2:

Bottom 3 are @ 1125/1575 470s @ 940 core

470s are faster by:

TimeSquare: 24%
Downtown: 28%
CentralPark: 38%


Next time you call someone out Johnny, make sure you know what you're talking about.

 

[Grooveriding]

Well, those words are interchangeable. That's exactly what I was referring to, OC'ing potential on retail samples aren't tested. He's talking about how the cards are made. "Bin" or "cherry picked", thing is, beyond what you buy your OC'ing mileage depends on your luck.

If those cards were in fact cherry picked, they'd have cost $100-200 more to say at least, not $10-20 more. It takes manwork to pick chips one by one.

All the companies do is to OC cards by factory via a BIOS flash, which makes them a rip-off. If you're going to buy a card, get reference, and OC yourself I mean. Rather than falling for those "SuperClocked", "FTW" nonsense.



AIB's don't do anything other than flashing the BIOS. All nVidia boards are made by Flextronics in Taiwan, who also makes the AX1200. Companies then put their own sticker on before shipping them out.

This is true for reference cards. Every reference 7970 will be the same and made in the same location with a different sticker.

I don't know if AIBs do or don't use said same company for custom cards. But there are lots of custom cards, some cheap to increase profit, others over-engineered to allow greater power delivery to improve overclocks.

AIBs do design these cards. MSI Lightning is designed by MSI, Asus Matrix is designed by Asus etc. I am inclined to believe that these cards also get a chip of a better quality than the reference design cards do as they are going through a custom process to create them. Whether that is by binning or cherry picking I don't know. That Gigabyte link earlier indicates they do some form of what they call 'cherry picking'

What I have seen is you don't see reference cards overclocking as well as models like MSI Lightning etc.

 

[Quantos]

Well there's at least some kind of benchmarking done on the chips at the AMD factories. I can't believe that they would leave the plant without at least verifying if they work. I really don't know what exactly that entails, but possibly with simple, and not so time consuming tests, they can figure out how good a chip is?

Also, are there physical factors known before the chip is actually made that can affect its final quality? Are all wafers made equal, and is a wafer equal over all its surface?