MSI K7T-Pro2-a spontaneously refuses to boot.

[Lehmann]

The system uses a K7T Pro2 A motherboard, 256megs of generic PC133 cls3 ram, IBM 7200hd, GeForce 256 DDR, and a thunderbird 1gig. Nothing is overclocking, nothing has been or is planned to be overclocked (it's not mine).

The problem is that sometimes (it seems more likely to happen after it has been shut off for several hours) the system completely refuses to boot. When the button is pressed the fans and drives power up, but nothing else happens. The diagnostic LEDS are all red, and the power LED on the front doesn't even come on. Pressing the reset button fixes the problem 100% of the time.

I don't want to tell the guy that I built it for that sometimes it just doesn't work... so I'm looking for ideas. I've got the latest official bios for it (dated January 11th I think) but not the overclockers bios. I wouldn't think that it would have anything to do with drivers, since it did the same thing in Windows 98 and 2000, and besides that it's not even in the OS when the problem happens. As a side note, the system does shut down properly every time, so no problem there.

I changed the option in the bios that says "Power state after power failure" to off instead of auto. Still happens.

I'm out of ideas. I'd sure appreciate any suggestions anyone could offer!

Thanks a load,
John

 

[OmnipotentSpleen]

wow...i just came into the Motherboard Threads to post this EXACT message!

I'm building 2 computers with the MSI K7T-Pro2 motherboard, and the 4 leds are really sweet, but, first time i booted, 4 red LEDs!!!! :Q :Q This was not good, since i'm building the computer for my dad (both of them are) one is a duron 700 and a Tbird 900. I hit the reset button and prayed. It booted up perfectly! Only problem is, I don't want to explain this problem to my dad who i'm building it for. He needs these computers working perfectly.

Lehmann, please keep me updated on what you are doing with your MSI K7T Pro2 please.

 

[davidwiz]

This is the infamous 'cold boot' problem that has been discussed many times here and on the usenet newsgroup. If the power management setting fix didnt work for your setup, your probably going to have to live with the problem. Many people have theorized causes for this problem ie: video card incompatibility, power supply incompatibility. However, these dont seem to be universal with everyone. Best bet is to email MSI and complain, maybe they will eventually admit there are substantial number of boards with this problem and suggest a fix.

 

[idkjs]

I have that problem also. Sometimes I have to boot it a couple of times to get it to go. Check MSI site here http://www.msi.com.tw/support/bios/mainboard/6xxx/k7tpro2a/k7tpro2a.htm They have a ver 2.4 out dated 2/7/01. It is the second from the top just below the Overclocking BIOS. I flashed on a couple of boards. It seemed to help althogh I did have to punch it a couple of times this evening before I could get it going. The other box so far has work fine, Hope this helps

erg

 

[FloridaBoy]

Yep, got the same problem with my PRO2A. All three standbyes (system, video and HD) cause that blue screeen. I had to select never, never and never. One thing that I did notice is that it was occurring after I installed my video drivers. I tried different versions of my Elsa Erazor X2 and even the NVidia drivers, but to no avail. When I unistalled the drivers, my power management worked properly. If you go to Elsa's website and search on "power management", you'll notice in one of the returns that they don't recommend using the card and having ACPI(???spelling) enabled. Even my ASUS A7V has a problem with the power management (using the CardExpert MX graphics card), so I leave it off also.

 

[quirionz]

I have the same problem as well. Tried different PSU and video cards without solving it. Apparently, the only solution that was found is to disable APCI in bios as well as setting "power after failure" to "off". Doesn't help people running Win2K though... Give it a try if you use Win9x but be prepared to have to reinstall the OS as there is a fair chance you'll have to.

 

[nickdakick]

Linkified for convenience
And yes this BIOS seems to fix a lot of different problems with this board.
edit: ATTENTION !!! DO NOT USE THE LIVE BIOS FEATURE !!! Download, unzip to FD and load from there.

 

[quirionz]

The new bios (2.4) is fine but it doesn't solve the cold boot problem though.

 

[quirionz]

As for other problems like freezing during D3D games, try setting the AGP driving value to BA rather than the default DA.

 

[FloridaBoy3]

Quirionz,

What do you mean by the cold boot problem? Does 4.24 solve the power management problems? Thanks.

 

[quirionz]

FloridaBoy3, the cold boot problem is the main topic of this thread. Read back all the posts and you'll notice you're off topic. The cold boot problem is not related to any drivers. It prevents the machine to boot every once in a while without having to hit reset.

 

[OmnipotentSpleen]

Hey, get this...I emaild MSI, and this is all I got from them:



There's three possibility for this. Either the BIOS is damage, or the CPU or memory is not working. Check wither of this three first. Then , if you still cannot find the problem. I would recommend you have it checked by your local vendor.

-----Original Message-----
From: liquidspleen [mailto:liquidspleen@softhome.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:01 AM
To: support@msi.com.tw
Subject: MSI KT7 Pro2-A Cold Boot!

I recently bought two MSI KT7 Pro2-A motherboards, and here's the problem:

The system uses a K7T Pro2 A motherboard, 512megs of Micron PC133 ram, IBM
7200hd, Matrox G450 16mb SDR Duel Head, and a thunderbird 900mhz. Nothing is
overclocking, nothing has been or is planned to be overclocked.

The problem is that the system completely refuses to boot. When the button
is pressed the fans and drives power up, but nothing else happens. The
diagnostic LEDS are all red, and the power LED on the front doesn't even
come on. Pressing the reset button fixes the problem 100% of the time.

I don't want to tell the guy that I built it for that sometimes it just
doesn't work. I've got the latest official bios for it (dated January 11th I
think) but not the overclockers bios. As a side note, the system does shut
down properly every time, so no problem there.

Please provide input about my problem. This is VERY important. If this
problem can be fixed, please explain what must be done. If there is nothing
that can be done, please tell me that as well, since I can't afford to waste
anymore time on this problem.

------

I'm going to email him back...
psh...bad ram or cpu...riiiight.

 

[quirionz]

I can't understand how they could not be aware of the problem since I know of many people who contacted them about this issue. Since I've encountered about 35 people with this problem, that makes a lot of bad RAM/CPU! I must say though that I've seen this problem happen with other KT133 boards (Asus, Gigabyte and Abit) but just not in the same scale than the Pro2A. MSI should definetely acknowledge this problem. It would be great if Anand could take a look at this.

 

[OmnipotentSpleen]

Yeah..Anand should have at least said somethign in the K7T Pro2 A mobo review. Anand's review is what made me get this board in the first place. Maybe Anand should send MSI a email or something. One of the "big wigs"

 

[Tummy]

Hmm... for what it's worth, I have this problem on my 8kta3 too.. exact same problem. goddamn...

 

[quirionz]

KT133 chipset? What PSU and video card have you got in there?

 

[drjefft]

The problem you all are complaining about could very well be the Windows 9x/Win 2000 use of the ACPI power management.

ACPI is the keystone in Microsoft's Operating System Directed Power Management (OSPM). With OSPM, the operating system determines when to do power management, and the BIOS determines how to do power management. The two pieces work in concert to provide maximum power savings.

BUT...
As part of its drive to take control of computer resources and management away from the BIOS and into the Operating System, ACPI also takes over the allocation of resources such as IRQs. DOH!!!!

Are you starting to see a problem here??!!??

ACPI can appear to have a performance hit if too many peripherals are forced to share just ONE IRQ. One user, running Windows 2000 on an ABIT KA7, had six devices sharing IRQ 7 - including his video and network interface card. After disabling ACPI in the BIOS and reinstalling Windows 2000, his Quake III frame-rate increased from 55 fps to 135 fps (in low res) and from 65 to 87 fps at 1024x768! This may be an extreme example - video cards tend to need their own IRQ (hence the "reserve IRQ for VGA" option in the BIOS) - but it does illustrate the point.

My advice would be to leave ACPI enabled if possible, but if you have unacceptable IRQ sharing, resulting in instability or a performance hit, disable it. Note that disabling ACPI can cause a CPU temperature increase, but that disabling "Enhance Chip Performance" in SoftMenuIII of the BIOS can resolve this. Note that some people have found that disabling ACPI (in the BIOS if supported, else when installing Windows) can solve many intractable hardware problems. It is worth trying when all else fails.
To prevent Windows98 from enabling ACPI when you install it, you can install using the command "setup /p i".
To prevent Windows 2000 from enabling ACPI when you install it, you can hit F7 at the point in the installation process where it asks you to hit F6 to install SCSI drivers.

To learn how to uninstall ACPI from Win 9x/Win ME go here.

To uninstall from Win 2000
Uninstalling ACPI in Windows 2000
1. Open Device Manager from Control Panel - System - Hardware - Device
Manager
2. Go to Computer tab and select the "ACPI enabled" option that you
have there
2a. Select Properties
2b. Go to Driver tab
2c. Press Update Driver...
3. "Welcome to Upgrade Device Driver" wizard opens up, press next to the
first question. From the next page select "Display a list of the known
drivers for this device so that I can choose a specific driver"
4. Select "Show all hardware of this device class"
5. From "(Standard computers)" select "Standard PC"
6. After the new driver has been installed press reboot
7. After reboot Windows 2000 redetects all of your hardware and installs
device drivers again for them.
8. After reinstalling device drivers open Device Manager once again and
open Computer tab and look if you have two "Standard PC" devices there. If
you do have a look at the properties of both "Standard PC" devices and
remove the one which has "driver not installed" in the Device Status screen
9. You are done and ACPI is no longer in use with Windows 2000.

Please post back your results so that others can benefit/not bother!

 

[OmnipotentSpleen]

"The problem you all are complaining about could very well be the Windows 9x/Win 2000 use of the ACPI power management."

this happend the very first time i booted it. before any OS or anything was installed.

 

[OmnipotentSpleen]

heh, well, I 0WNZ J00! heh, I emailed MSI, and I got the answers that were due!!!!

Turns out, that this mobo is incompatable w/ some T-birds! READ THE WHOLE THING. You might want to just skip to the last email i sent them to know what's goin on...or read it form the bottom up. it's good stuff. i was proud of myself for getting a responce. heh, like the mad skilz i used? "If it is indeed a
"defective motherboard", then the problem is that MSI is SHIPPING DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS. Please speak to your supervisors and have them contact me ASAP!" I liked that little bit!
(Btw, i signed using my dad's name and title....wonder if that helped the responce)



After some testing the motherboard. We have found this problem.

Problem Description:
K7Tpro2 series (6330) with 1GHz CPU or 900 Mhz CPU
When they shut down the computer and it switches off they are unable
to turn on and boot up the computer again

Problem Analysis:
This problem only happens on some lot of AMD CPUs, the families of CPU's tested that show this problem:
A1000AMT3B - AJFA0050UPFW (Athlon 1000 MHz)
A0900AMT3B - AQFA0047TPAW (Athlon 900 MHz
the following families of CPU's that are OK :
A1000AMT3B - AJFA0047UPCW (Athlon 1000 MHz)
A1000AMT3B - AJFA0101CPEW (Athlon 1000 MHz)

Maybe there are still some other lot of AMD CPU which has this problem


Suggestions for Customer who have this problem in the field:
1. Use CPU lot (see above) from AMD that can work with MS-6330 or MS-6340 as quickest way.
2. If the user can't exchange the AMD CPU, please send them back as RMA goods



-----Original Message-----
From: liquidspleen [mailto:liquidspleen@softhome.net]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:08 AM
To: support@msi.com.tw
Subject: Defective motherboard????!!!!

Defective motherboard? Why on earth would you think that? I received 2 of
them, both of witch have this problem. I have talked to over 20 people who
ALSO have this problem with the exact same motherboard. If it is indeed a
"defective motherboard", then the problem is that MSI is SHIPPING DEFECTIVE
PRODUCTS.

Please speak to your supervisors and have them contact me ASAP!

Thank You.

James S. Hodgens

President
Hodgens Engineering


----- Original Message -----
From: support <support@msi.com.tw>
To: 'liquidspleen' <liquidspleen@softhome.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: MSI KT7 Pro2-A Cold Boot!


> I might be a defective motherboard. Have it exchange with our MSI
distributor or MSI branches.
> MSI Contact Info
> http://www.msi.com.tw/contact/index.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: liquidspleen [mailto:liquidspleen@softhome.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 5:56 AM
> To: support@msi.com.tw
> Subject: Re: MSI KT7 Pro2-A Cold Boot!
>
> The second two of the three possibilities for the cold boot problem are
not
> the problem, as the RAM and CPU work fine. Like I said before, if I hit
the
> reset button, it boots like it should after it's been on for a few seconds
> w/ the 4 LEDs red. It's just that the first time I turn the computer on, I
> get the 4 red leds. Hitting the reset button fixes the problem 100% of the
> time. I don't want to have this problem at all, because, I built this
> computer for someone, and It needs to be working like it should.
>
> Now, regarding your other statement: &quot;the BOIS is damage&quot;. How can this
be?
> This is the BOIS that it came with. Are you shipping your products with a
> defective BOIS? I am not the only one who is having this &quot;cold boot&quot;
> problem. Go to this URL to see what I mean:
> http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=29&amp;threadid=355963
>
> Please examine the problem more thoroughly before you reply. Thank you for
> your help.
>
> Respond ASAP,
>
>
>
> James S. Hodgens
>
> President
> Hodgens Engineering
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: support <support@msi.com.tw>
> To: 'liquidspleen' <liquidspleen@softhome.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:09 AM
> Subject: RE: MSI KT7 Pro2-A Cold Boot!
>
>
> > There's three possibility for this. Either the BIOS is damage, or the
CPU
> or memory is not working. Check wither of this three first. Then , if you
> still cannot find the problem. I would recommend you have it checked by
your
> local vendor.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: liquidspleen [mailto:liquidspleen@softhome.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:01 AM
> > To: support@msi.com.tw
> > Subject: MSI KT7 Pro2-A Cold Boot!
> >
> > I recently bought two MSI KT7 Pro2-A motherboards, and here's the
problem:
> >
> > The system uses a K7T Pro2 A motherboard, 512megs of Micron PC133 ram,
IBM
> > 7200hd, Matrox G450 16mb SDR Duel Head, and a thunderbird 900mhz.
Nothing
> is
> > overclocking, nothing has been or is planned to be overclocked.
> >
> > The problem is that the system completely refuses to boot. When the
button
> > is pressed the fans and drives power up, but nothing else happens. The
> > diagnostic LEDS are all red, and the power LED on the front doesn't even
> > come on. Pressing the reset button fixes the problem 100% of the time.
> >
> > I don't want to tell the guy that I built it for that sometimes it just
> > doesn't work. I've got the latest official bios for it (dated January
11th
> I
> > think) but not the overclockers bios. As a side note, the system does
shut
> > down properly every time, so no problem there.
> >
> > Please provide input about my problem. This is VERY important. If this
> > problem can be fixed, please explain what must be done. If there is
> nothing
> > that can be done, please tell me that as well, since I can't afford to
> waste
> > anymore time on this problem.
> >
> > Respond ASAP,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > James S. Hodgens
> >
> > President
> > Hodgens Engineering
> >
>

 

[Macro2]

I have the same problem with an MSI 6195 board...

Mac

 

[idkjs]

<<<<<Problem Analysis:
This problem only happens on some lot of AMD CPUs, the families of CPU's tested that show this problem:
A1000AMT3B - AJFA0050UPFW (Athlon 1000 MHz)
A0900AMT3B - AQFA0047TPAW (Athlon 900 MHz
the following families of CPU's that are OK :
A1000AMT3B - AJFA0047UPCW (Athlon 1000 MHz)
A1000AMT3B - AJFA0101CPEW (Athlon 1000 MHz)

<b>Maybe there are still some other lot of AMD CPU which has this problem</b>

If the dillweeds at MSI will do a little more testing they will find
there is no MAYBE to it. I have had this problem with the 600/650/700 and 800 Durons. Maybe they will get around to fixing it one of these days

erg

 

[UsandThem]

<< I might be a defective motherboard >>



That is why it took so long for you to get a answer. You always have to ask to speak to a non-defective motherboard

 

[OmnipotentSpleen]

lol!

 

[Stoney]

I had the same problem with a 1.1 T-bird. I downgraded to a 900 and the problem went away.