MSI K8N Neo4 nForce4 Ultra Socket 939

[mdcrab]

Now down to $38.99. Could not resist, just put it on my Xmas list.

mdcrab

 

[herbiehancock]

Originally posted by: mdcrab
Now down to $38.99. Could not resist, just put it on my Xmas list.

mdcrab

Yeah, it finally got too cheap to resist for me, also. Now to assemble the rest of the components...........got a CDRW on hand, two sticks of Corsair ValueRam (512mb x 2 but one is double-sided and one is single-sided, so no dual channel goodness there!), an Antec 350W ps (new case take-out so should work), a Seagate 120GB PATA hd I have lying around, and an Athlon 64 3000 cpu that was replaced with a 4000 from the 'egg for $80.

Now for a case proper, a video card and OS copy. Of course the real question is what to do with it now.

 

[GeezerMan]

See if you can find a free shipping coupon, otherwise even with the price drop, you end up paying a tad more because of shipping. And a Ho Ho Ho to everyone....(politically correct version)

 

[kenton]

Argh.

The 7950GT is NOT working out. I mean, it fits in the slot, the computer boots, Windows installs the latest forceware drivers. 3DMark06 WILL NOT LOOP. Sometimes it reboots, sometimes I get BSOD DRIVER_IRQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL_BUT_INSTEAD_AN_ODD_INTEGER_I_CANNOT_COMPREHEND

Something like that. Ouch. I've been messing with it for three or four days now, by the way. I did a fresh OS install followed by SP2, then chipset drivers, then graphics drivers, then AV/Firewall, then 3DMark. It will not loop and the reboots are random and not related to temps in any way. I have not installed my VF-700Cu yet, and probably won't. She only had a few days left to do a full refund from Newegg so I started the RMA process (and I'll also ship it out for her hehe)

Here's what's going to happen:

- Since I know the CPU and RAM are stable for hours on end and since I've reinstalled Windows I point the finger at either the motherboard, PSU or individual graphics card.
- I have a way to see if it's the motherboard, my KN1 Lite 939 PCI-E system.
- I have a way to see if it's graphics card -- see above.
- I have a way to see if it's the PSU -- see above.

Later today after numerous family visits i'll pull the card out and put it in my KN1 system and see how that goes. Should that go well, then I'll blame some part on my system. The KN1 board can't really hit 300HTT so putting my brand new fancy Opteron in it won't do any good. I could probably get 2200MHz out of it because of the low multiplier.

I plan to get an X1950XT 256MB to replace it, which is actually 5%-10% faster than the 7950GT 512MB. If that's stable in the Opteron system, GREAT -- I'll be happy...

...if not. I'll eBay all the parts separate (not as a bundle, lose $...) and start to fund a Core2 system.

I sure hope it's not the Antec TruePower Trio 650w I just bought... (But I can't believe it would be.)


Oh. Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[imported_maildude]

Well Kenton it will be interesting to hear what you find out. I hope it's not the motherboard since I still have one sitting here ready to go in my new system. Have been waiting for a few more parts to arrive but I think the big snowstorm in Denver has delayed them. Probably for the best since I will have a lot more time after New Years. Happy Holidays to all of you!!

 

[seannj]

Originally posted by: kenton
Argh.

The 7950GT is NOT working out. I mean, it fits in the slot, the computer boots, Windows installs the latest forceware drivers. 3DMark06 WILL NOT LOOP. Sometimes it reboots, sometimes I get BSOD DRIVER_IRQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL_BUT_INSTEAD_AN_ODD_INTEGER_I_CANNOT_COMPREHEND
......
Oh. Merry Christmas everyone!

I have an eVGA 7950GT. It works fine with Opt165 and Opt170, both with MSI K8N Neo4-FI board, not a single problem. My guess is that you may need to check your PSU. My Opt165 runs on a very old Antec smartpower 350W, Opt170 runs on Antec Neo HE 550W. Most of the time I use eVGA 7950GT and my current XFX geForce8800GTS to run HD-DVDs on my computers.

Sean

 

[GeezerMan]

Well, Neighbor Bob has narrowed down his problem, and it appears to be the motherboard. My guess is his NIC is faulty. He changed out everything else, and tried another CPU too. It locks up on him.

 

[kenton]

My PSU is a TruePower Trio 650 watt. I never had any problems with the ATI X600SE, granted I wasn't gaming hard (light Quake4)

I doubt it's my PSU...

 

[GeezerMan]

I know Kenton mentioned a while back that his Ultra 500 power supply was showing about 12.7 in speedfan for 12V readings. Well, my Ultra shows it between 12.71 to 12.8, usually stays within 12.71 to 12.77. The graph section shows a zig zag line, with spikes to 12.6 and 12.9. That's not good.
This is at idle, 1 hard drive, 1 video card, 2 case fans, audio card.I put a multimeter on one of the molex connectors, and it shows a steady 12.12 volt. I don't know which rail it was on though.

 

[kenton]

Yeah. Even with the TruePower it reads something like 12.4-12.5.

MSI Core Cell reads 12.2, which the BIOS reads, so perhaps with 12v monitoring it's best done with CoreCell even though it's a Civic ricer type application (this coming from an RSX driver!)

Also to be noted with ACF64P users, for some reason when I use SP2004 (single core GUI based Prime95) it loads something called mbmstarter.dll -- This causes SpeedFan to properly report the CPU Fan speed. How strange!


As far as my system which for one instant I wanted to dismantle and eBay.... Well it's been moved off life support. I don't know if it's the Ultra RAM I was using, or if it was my sound card (X-Plosion PCI) or it was which RAM slots I was using (the slots closest to the IDE connectors, I forget the color).

Last night in a desperation attempt to figure out my problem I swapped the Ultra 2GB for 2x512MB Mushkins and set the Ultra to memtesting in my KN1 Lite. I also removed my PCI sound card.

I awoke to this:
- MSI system with 1GB Mushkin (in slots closest to CPU) and 7950GT was still 3DMark06 looping after about 10 hours, it ran for 14-15 hours before I stopped it.
- ECS system with 2GB Ultra memtesting had rebooted about 38 minutes before I woke up. I assume it rebooted because it had only passed once and the timer said 38:xx.

Later in the day:
- ECS system, still with Ultra RAM, memtests for 11 hours almost and passes 18 times before I stop it.
- I swap the Ultra RAM back into the MSI system, putting it in the RAM slots closest to the CPU.

Currently:
- MSI system still with Ultra RAM
- I've restored my overclock of 2700MHz
- 3DMark06 has been looping now for I believe 2 hours.
- For S&G I'm memtesting the Mushkin, even though I know it's the best damn RAM I've ever owned.


This is the first complete day I've had this video card that something hasn't BSOD'd, rebooted, or crashed. I think I'm getting somewhere.

 

[GeezerMan]

Kenton, do you have any idea how much cooler your setup runs with the AC pro64 HSF compared to the AMD heatipe while overclocking?

An odd thing for me has happened twice now. My CPU fan has dropped to 45%. once while idling with cool and quiet on, and once while cool and quiet was off. I opened up speedfan and turn up the fan by hand back to 100%
May be a conflict with the MSI core center

 

[kenton]

Oh yes, CoreCell dropped my exhaust fan, which is the header below the actual CPU socket. What a lame "utility."

No idea, I've never installed the 4-pipe on the Opteron, only the Venice.

 

[GeezerMan]

I have about decided I would prefer all of my fans to run at 100% all the time and just put up with the noise........

 

[kenton]

Well, I just woke up. It's STILL 3DMarking! (GOOD!)

I seem to remember, GeezerMan, that you said something about filling two slots before filling the other two slots (RAM slots), something you read in the manual. Maybe something with my RAM slots had something to do with it.

Or maybe it was that AuzenTech sound card, that I'll be putting back in today.

 

[GeezerMan]

Yeah, the manual says something about filling certain slots first. I have my 2 sticks next to the CPU. My old Asus A8N-E would fail mem test with my pricey Corsair ram in a certain order. Swap the slots, and it passed. This is a full time job keeping up with all of the special little things that can happen.

 

[colonel north]

Pardon my butting in here... this thread inspired me to buy an Opty 165 and this board, but haven't been able to achieve a decent overclock yet (see sig - was expecting an easy 2.4-2.5GHz at stock voltage). I'd like to think that it's just a matter of getting the BIOS settings right.

Like some other folks, the highest "CPU FSB" setting reachable so far (245) was achieved using the default "memclock index value" of 200MHz and stock manual memory settings. After dropping memclock to 166MHz and loosening up memory timings (Tcl-3; Tras-8T; Trcd-4T; Trp-4T; read preamble-8ns; async latency-8ns; everything else set to "auto" or default), the best "CPU FSB" setting which would boot was 240. Don't think heat is a problem (ambient room temp is about 65F).

BTW, tried using two Kingston 512MB valueram sticks in place of the Crucial, with pretty much identical results.

Have I missed something here??? Seems like no one posting to any of the related threads I've read has had such poor results. I'm open to suggestions (although not really keen on overvolting).

 

[GeezerMan]

Well, set the ram to a very low speed, like 100, and then try to raise FSB higher. You need to find out if the problem is the board, CPU, or ram. What CPU steppings did you get?

I'm running the ram 3-3-3-8 1T, everything else is auto for the ram. Ram volts at 2.75, but that's settings my ram can handle while being overclocked.

 

[colonel north]

Ok... tried memclock at 100, 133, 166 with other ram settings at 3-3-3-8 2T. Tried it with both Crucial and Kingston PC3200 value ram.

With memclock at 100, could boot with FSB at 200 but no post with FSB at 210. Increasing memclock results in a higher attainable FSB, with best results still at memclock of 200 and FSB of 240. Also am able to get to FSB of 240 with memory by SPD (2.5-3-3-8 2T @ 200MHz).

So my experience with this board & cpu is that the use of memory dividers provides absolutely no benefit and in fact reduces performance. I would normally conclude that the BIOS must be tightening up some memory timings as memclock is decreased, except that nobody else seems to be having this problem.

 

[GeezerMan]

May be just a CPU that won't overclock well. What are the steppings imprinted on the IHS for your Opteron 165?
Most of the Opteron 165 can reach 2.6GHz, but not all.

For dual channel on this board, try the first 2 slots next to the CPU, NOT one stick in each color like many other boards.
You can also try the last 2 slots as well for dual channel.
And even if you do indeed have it setup in dual channel already, switch to the other 2 slots.

 

[kenton]

Sounds like HTT clock, lower the multiplier to 3x

 

[colonel north]

As I recall, stepping is CCBBE, week of 06??. CPU was ordered from Newegg on 12/06, delivered 12/11.

Forgot to mention that all testing has been done using 2 512MB sticks in dual channel mode (usually in the green slots, sometimes in the purple - doesn't seem to make any difference) with HT frequency set to 4x (or occasionally lower). Haven't tried using a single stick, since I have no intention of using fewer than 2 in this machine. In fact, am now using all 4 512MB sticks and still reach max cpu speed of 2.16 GHz with memclock set to 200MHz. Also tried dropping the CPU multiplier to 4x with absolutely no improvement in max attainable FSB.

Thanks for the input... at this point, I'm more mystified by the negative impact of using lower dividers than I am disappointed in max cpu speed. Current CPU overclock of 20% is entirely due to 20% overclock of cheap value ram. At this point, I'm afraid to run Memtest86.

 

[GeezerMan]

I had some odd things happen with my ram too. At 2700GHz, it would post at a higher ram speed, but not a lower. Do try as Kenton said, lower the multiplier to 3X for HTT of 251MHz and above. Kenton is da man, well, one of them anyway, we are lucky to have good help here...

 

[kenton]

Well, I RMA'd the 7950GT yesterday, hopfully newegg won't charge me a restocking fee. They -can-, but haven't in the past.

I've been 3DMarking all last night and today with the X600SE again and it's A-OK. I am eBaying the Ultra RAM, I want something better and it'll only be like a "$20 upgrade fee" once I ship them. I expect $75 each, or $150 for the pair.

 

[Lurker1]

To Col. North.... nice moniker btw

Using 4 sticks of RAM will almost certainly slow down your memory speed and timings, at least on most boards. I haven't bothered looking at this one, as I only intend to use 2 sticks max in it. If you intend on OC'ing, start with 1 stick for your CPU OC max, then back down and use 2 sticks for your max system OC. You'll at least know what the maximum CPU OC is. If you can't reach anywhere near it with 2 sticks, you have a problem either with your memory, the MB, or, more likely, you'll need to tweak the memory settings, including a little extra voltage on the RAM.

I should also note that a good PSU is required, especially if you're running dual-channel, as this configuration will be more susceptible to power fluctuations.

Good luck!

 

[colonel north]

OK... some more testing, with 2 512MB sticks & BIOS set as follows:

Memory timings: 4-4-4-8-2T
HT frequency: 3x
CPU ratio: x5

Maximum FSB attained at various memclock settings using the above BIOS settings:

100MHz - 218
133MHz - 226
166MHZ - 240
200MHz - 245

Also tried setting read preamble & async latency to 9ns & using a different psu (Antec Truepower 330), both with no effect as far as I could tell.

Dropping the HT frequency from 4x to 3x may have had some impact... at 166 and 200 memclock, seeing some blue-screens when loading windows rather than an outright failure to post. At least with BSOD, you don't have to clear the BIOS. I have a blister on my index finger from pressing the little button.

At this point, I guess I'm just not curious enough to spend more time testing this machine with 1 stick of memory. To tell the truth, I don't think my memory is the problem... I've tried two different brands with virtually the same results.

Once again, thanks everyone for the advice.