MSI Neo4-F Vs. Chaintech VF4

[Madness101]

Hello all,

I'm upgrading and have hammered down to one of two motherboards.

MSI Neo4-F or the Chinatech VF4.

I'm starting witha Venice core AMD 64 3000, 1GB of Crucial (two sticks), and will get a Leadtek 6600GT TDH PCIe card. Have a Fortran Bluestorm 500W too.

Will be gaming, but am not abessed over getting max settings, and I would like to practice some mild overclocking with stock cooling, just see see what's what. I'll probably dial it all back to stock speeds when done.

So, which should I get? The MSI or the Chaintech.... and why (discounting fanboy'ism of course)? Or just answer the poll.

Cheers!

 

[Odeen]

MSI. Same feature set, better brand, better layout.

Upgrade the Chinatech (wait.. that's CHAINtech!) to the VNF4 ultra, though, and the Chaintech VNF4 ultra wins, then.

 

[overst33r]

how bout this if you are open minded. If not i would pick the MSI.

 

[Madness101]

Why Epox over MSI or Chaintech, other than the fact that it's an ultra chipset? I don't really need the extras that come with ultra... well, yet.

 

[Odeen]

Epox has firewire, which is a nice extra to have.

The Ultra chipset is a good idea because it gives you a hardware-accelerated firewall, which equals less CPU load and more network throughput than using, say, Norton Internet Security with "regular" networking. SATA II isn't that useful yet, but there already are NCQ-capable hard drives on the market.

 

[GadgetBuilder]

Originally posted by: Odeen
Epox has firewire, which is a nice extra to have.

The Ultra chipset is a good idea because it gives you a hardware-accelerated firewall, which equals less CPU load and more network throughput than using, say, Norton Internet Security with "regular" networking. SATA II isn't that useful yet, but there already are NCQ-capable hard drives on the market.

Is reduced processor load for the firewall real or marketing hype??

See: http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/4370/

For some actual measurements.

Then, see: http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/vnf4ultra/8.html

Where they reference the earlier article and notice the dates. The most recent nVidia driver set, 6.53, was released in mid-March and according to the article the problem fix was not available to the public in mid April.

Has anyone seen more recent tests which confirm that nVidia released a fix?

 

[Madness101]

OK, I'll read up a bit more on the Ultra. It may be that it does give me a bit more future-proofing. I guess I should have a look around at other Ultra boards too... or is the VNF4 Ultra really the best value in terms of price/functionality/stability?

 

[filterxg]

I usually suggest Chaintech to people looking for a cheap reliable mobo. Gigabyte if they want a big feature set and reliability at a slightly higher cost. MSI for OC though you trade away some reliability.

 

[Madness101]

Which Gigabyte board should I consider for value and Ultra chipset?

 

[Rike]

I just did a build for my brother-in-law with an MSI Neo4-F. I had it up and running in no time. Nice and stable.

 

[Capitalist]

Buy the Chaintech VNF4 Ultra. It's cheap and more than enough for the average to above average user.

 

[Madness101]

Looks like VNF4 Ultra may be the way to go, although, what's with this passive cooling on the nVidia chip. Isn't that a bit dodgy? Can I swap it out for active? Any fan recommendations should I go that route?

 

[Rike]

Your poll says MSI. (6 to 0 over Chaintech as of this post.) Not that Chaintech is bad. It is the nforce4 ultra board that has been on the market the longest and it seems to be a good budget choice.

Passive cooling of the Nforce4 chip is no problem. I use passive cooling on my Asus A8N SLI Deluxe and significantly OC without any problem. (see sig) For nforce4, I've not seen or heard of any active cooling solution that provides additional benefits to that of an adequate passive solution.

How do you know if the passive solution is OK? The manufacturer wouldn't sell you a board if the solution had basic performance issues. OCing is a different matter but I know of at least one case where it works without a hitch.

 

[the cobbler]

The newer revision VNF4 Ultras have active cooling on the chipset and have for quite some time. Mine came in Rev. 2 form with active cooling on the NF4 about three months ago from Newegg.

FWIW, even with the passive heatsink, many are able to run 260-280HTT. I have been as high as 350HTT with the active solution before calling it quits. More than sufficient, IMHO.

The VNF4 Ultra is a very, very stable board and although it lacks some of the BIOS settings on MSI or particularly DFI boards, it is a damn strong overclocker.

 

[Madness101]

Thanks. I'm kind of swinging away from MSI and towards the VNF4 Ultra as I'm seeing a lot of bitching and complaining about the MSI Neo4-F... although, I am seeing as many people say they've had a dream run with it.

I guess my next question is, if I go with the VNF4 Ultra, should I get it pre-built and tested with a 3000 Vinnie and 1GB RAM by someone like Monarch Computers or Mwave, or should I just do it myself. I've no problem doing it, but would it be worth getting some mob to do it for me and pick up a warranty or something as a result? If so, which mob?

Cheers!

 

[Rike]

I like the pre-tested systems (NOT pre-built, case and all) because it dramatically lowers your chances of DOA parts. I don't always go that way, but it is some cheap insurance against bad parts.

 

[Madness101]

Any opinions on who are a good bunch to have pre-build the mobo/CPU/RAM combo for me? I know of Mwave and Monarch Computers, but I'm sure there are others.

 

[Rike]

I have used Monarch on several occasions and they have always come through for me. Their prices are usually very competitive.

 

[Madness101]

Yeah, I think I'll go with them. They have some great freebies too with a combo build. Far Cry, HL2, Napster. Sweet.

 

[ToeJam13]

I own a Neo4-F.

Six issues with the board:
[*] The BIOS contains a bug that causes overclocking beyond HTT-220 to become unstable with 90nm cores. There are several threads on the issue. Search for "219 bug".
[*] The BIOS has akward controls for vCore. It allows adjustments up to 1.45V in 0.05V increments. Higher voltages require the use of a vCore bonus, starting at 3.3% and toping out at 20% (in 3.3% increments) for a peak of 1.74V.
[*] Some of the SDRAM SPD multipliers are broken. Choosing 180 (HTT x0.9) will instead give you 166 (HTT x0.83). Choosing 215 (HTT x1.075) or 250 (HTT x1.25) will instead give you 100 (HTT x0.5).
[*] The NB fan runs very high and is not adjustable via BIOS. You can replace it with a low profile Zalman heatsink, but not the taller version since you may run into clearance problems with the PCIe-x16 slot adjacent to the HSF.
[*] With my 2.1 digital speakers, I notice that the Realtek driver/chip doesn't keep the digital channel open. As such, the first few milliseconds of any sound played after sound channel initilization is chopped. Mainly affects sounds in Windows Explorer, not really an issue with media players or games.
[*] The DIMM sockets are too close together.

Things that I do like:
[*] You can control the CPU fan via BIOS. You set the target temperature for full voltage and the BIOS does the rest. Not as good as Abit which allows you to set the min/max voltage as well as low/high temp points, but it works well regardless.
[*] When running at stock speeds, the board is very stable. It has not crashed once with any games or stress tests.
[*] Tons of settings for memory latency. Basically, every one in the book for DDR SDRAM.
[*] CMOS can be cleared by pushing a button on the mainboard rather than moving a jumper
[*] Mainboard headers for PWR, P-LED, HD-LED, Speaker, etc... are all color coded.
[*] Good manual
[*] Good price (got it at Monarch with the Half-Life and Far Cry promos. Napster + DRM = won't touch it even when free!)

 

[Madness101]

Great summary. Good food for thought. Thanks!

I was recently told that I was better off going with ASUS if I wasn't going to overclock. My existing mobo is an ASUS, and it's been totally stable. Maybe I should stick to what I know?

 

[Madness101]

The NB fan runs very high and is not adjustable via BIOS. You can replace it with a low profile Zalman heatsink, but not the taller version since you may run into clearance problems with the PCIe-x16 slot adjacent to the HSF.

Wht size fan is this? Like a 40x10mm? 50x10mm?

Cheers!

 

[BTA]

I grabbed the Chaintech VNF4/Ultra recently because I had good luck with their Summit mATX board which is in my little LAN box. It was/is surprisingly stable.

I'm having the same luck with the Ultra, it's been great so far, and it has plenty of features for me.

I'm not sure what more you could want out of a motherboard. I saw no reason to spend the extra cash on an MSI or Abit or Asus. (I'm usually partial to Abit)

Unless you wanted to go SLI of course.

A friend has the MSI board though and his is working nicely too, he has no complaints.
MSI used to have spotty reliability however, but this was years ago. I havnt used one of their products since then so I have no idea how good their stuff is now.

 

[Quadriflax]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13

[*] When running at stock speeds, the board is very stable. It has not crashed once with any games or stress tests.

I'm glad to read that. I've been hearing a lot about problems with this board, that I'm thinking of getting, but it would seem most of the problems are with overclocking. I'm not really planning to OC my machine, at least not very much (maybe just a bit to experiment). And it does seem like the problems will be sorted out at some point in the future, so I can wait it out for sure.

My question for the Neo4-F is: can I post with a Venice chip? I want to get a 3200+ Venice for it, but am worried that it won't work unless I have the new BIOS (v1.4). I know there were some issues with Venice chips and boards needing a new BIOS. I never did read whether the Neo4-F was one of them or not. If so, how can I make sure when I buy the board that it has the latest v1.4 BIOS? I don't want to get the board and have no way to flash it.

 

[the Juice]

Well ironically I have both the MSI and the Chaintech, I bought the chaintech when I thought I was having problems(turned out to be a little paste on the cpu). They are very similar, the MSI has brighter colors basically. I will be selling one of them. PM me.