MSNBC is reporting a HUGE ammo dump discovered...possible chemical munitions.

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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0
No links yet..but they just had some crazy video on. Apparently, it is a complex of approximately 120 bunkers filled with various weapons and ammo. The Marine commander that discovered it is amazed at the sheer size of it. There is apparently enough ammo to supply two of our biggest bases. A couple of the weapons on the video are stumping the military anaylsts, and they apparently have nozzle fittings for being filled. Also, they have Russian markings on it, and no one has ever seen them before or known of their existence. I'll keep an eye out for a link..



Edit:

Thanks to Astaroth33 for also reporting some info on this!

 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
MSNBC has not returned to this story since the original broadcast, so no more details yet. I'd speculate that it's not surprising that some of the munitions will be unfamiliar, given that I doubt extensive R&D is done on chemical munitions here in the US. Iraq and apparently the Russian military has done the research into methods for improving chem/bio delivery and dispersion, so I think we'll find a lot to learn here.
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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0
One of the military experts mentioned they don't know if the munitions in question are filled or not yet... It looks like they are going back to the story soon...

 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,501
324
126
They have found so many bunkers and weapons caches that there aren't enough ordinance disposal teams or even available personnel to secure them all. They had to leave many of them unsecured. Several bunkers were packed to the hilt with mortars and other munitions but the bunkers were empty when they returned the next day. Someone had picked them clean overnight.
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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Originally posted by: tcsenter
They have found so many bunkers and weapons caches that there aren't enough ordinance disposal teams or even available personnel to secure them all. They had to leave many of them unsecured. Several bunkers were packed to the hilt with mortars and other munitions but the bunkers were empty when they returned the next day. Someone had picked them clean overnight.

True...but this one is incredibly large. 120 bunkers and it is too large to just blow up, not to mention the possible chemical munitions.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
This is really odd.. MSNBC ran an update of the headlines, and omitted this story. You would think they would focus very intently on this..
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
????? is it real or something to get the ratings up

The video appeared to be very real, as did the chemical artillery shell and the weird nozzle dispenser device. However, not much detail other than the initial report and video. Kerry Sanders is the embedded reporter on the scene with the 2nd battalion, 8th Marines, and they are awaiting an update with more info.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
Quick update, because MSNBC just showed clips from the video again. So far, the interesting things being reported here are the discovery of the artillery shell with the unique fill port at the base (normal shells are solid at the base), and the odd-looking 2.5-3ft long canister/nozzle device with the Russian markings. David Kay, former UN weapons inspector now (apparently) doing analysis for MSNBC, isn't familiar with the device either, but speculates that it's designed to aerosolize and dispense chemical weapons most likely from the air, by being attached to a wing or some other method. It may also be an insert for the nosecone of a missile.

They are reporting that this bunker complex will not be destroyed, but that it will be fully catalogued and analyzed. It'll be interesting to hear more details as they come.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
NOW, MSNBC is reporting that an Iraqi informant pointed out a chemical weapons site just outside Baghdad. "Based on information from an Iraqi informant, Marines descended on the courtyard of a girls' school. The informant told Marines that Iraqi officials broke through a wall to truck in materials there."

This is separate from the story about the bunker complex. More details will hopefully come soon; at this rate, we may well have our smoking gun today sometime.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
I sure can't find anything on MSNBC.com . . .

Anyone have "the latest" LINK?

It's on tv, but you have to listen to a lot of rehashed crap to get the new info. The website isn't being updated that often this morning, apparently, and doesn't have much.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: apoppin
I sure can't find anything on MSNBC.com . . .

Anyone have "the latest" LINK?

It's on tv, but you have to listen to a lot of rehashed crap to get the new info. The website isn't being updated that often this morning, apparently, and doesn't have much.
Now we're getting "somewhere" . . . WHICH MSNBC tv program? There is WAY too much to search on their site without a little more info (please).
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: apoppin
I sure can't find anything on MSNBC.com . . .

Anyone have "the latest" LINK?

It's on tv, but you have to listen to a lot of rehashed crap to get the new info. The website isn't being updated that often this morning, apparently, and doesn't have much.
Now we're getting "somewhere" . . . WHICH MSNBC tv program? There is WAY too much to search on their site without a little more info (please).

It's just the regular news show that's currently on, not anything special interest or news commentary. The initial story was a feed sent in by the MSNBC embedded reporter with the 2nd battalion, 8th Marines, and the location was in or near Ad Diwaniyah (not sure on spelling).
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: apoppin
I sure can't find anything on MSNBC.com . . .

Anyone have "the latest" LINK?

It's on tv, but you have to listen to a lot of rehashed crap to get the new info. The website isn't being updated that often this morning, apparently, and doesn't have much.
Now we're getting "somewhere" . . . WHICH MSNBC tv program? There is WAY too much to search on their site without a little more info (please).

It's just the regular news show that's currently on, not anything special interest or news commentary. The initial story was a feed sent in by the MSNBC embedded reporter with the 2nd battalion, 8th Marines, and the location was in or near Ad Diwaniyah (not sure on spelling).
Thanks for trying to identify it.

I GIVE UP! "Search" is not working very well on MSNBC.com . . .

This MAY be relevant - from today:


Banned weapons may be hard to find

Suspicious Iraqi sites have not provided proof

ANALYSIS
By Barton Gellman
THE WASHINGTON POST

April 5 ? U.S. forces in Iraq yesterday found sites and substances they described as suspected components of a forbidden Iraqi weapons program. But the discoveries that U.S. troops displayed, and the manner in which they were described at a Central Command briefing, struck experts in and out of government as ambiguous at best.

IRAQ HAS the most extensive petrochemical industry in the Middle East and a wealth of vaccine factories, single-cell protein research labs, medical and veterinary manufacturing centers and water treatment plants. Nearly all of them are dual-use facilities, capable of civilian or military employment, but most were devoted to legitimate activity even at the height of Iraq?s secret weapons programs.
Moving warily through that industrial landscape, U.S. and allied ground forces will inevitably find, as U.N. inspectors have found since 1991, thousands of potential weapons sites but few, if any, that could be nothing else. Iraq?s continued concealment of such weapons is the allegation at the core of the Bush administration?s case for war. If the hunt for them relies on that sort of survey, experienced investigators said, it faces a long road to an uncertain result.

In the first of yesterday?s discoveries, the 3rd Infantry Division entered the vast Qa Qaa chemical and explosives production plant and came across thousands of vials of white powder, packed three to a box. The engineers also found stocks of atropine and pralidoxime, also known as 2-PAM chloride, which can be used to treat exposure to nerve agents but is also used to treat poisoning by organic phosphorus pesticides. Alongside those materials were documents written in Arabic that, as interpreted at the scene, appeared to include discussions of chemical warfare.
This morning, however, investigators said initial tests indicated the white powder was not a component of a chemical weapon. ?On first analysis it does not appear to be a chemical that could be used in a chemical weapons attack,? Col. John Peabody, commander of the division?s engineering brigade, told a Reuters reporter with his unit.

?LONG-TERM TASK? SEEN
U.N. inspectors have surveyed Qa Qaa some two dozen times, most recently last month. But some 1,000 structures there, organized into 10 or more factory complexes, have mainly been devoted to such conventional military industries as explosives and missile fuels. Neither is forbidden under U.N. Security Council mandates. Qa Qaa was last linked to proscribed activity in 1995 ? and somewhat peripherally then.






?Based on [the powder and antidotes] you couldn?t form any real judgment,? said Terence Taylor of Britain, a former inspector with the U.N. Special Commission (UNSCOM). ?It is a place where there would be a lot of chemicals, not necessarily related to chemical or biological weapons. More likely in that place it would relate to some form of rocket propellant.?
?I?m afraid what we?re in for,? he said, is a ?long-term task? pushed forward by ?the political concern and pressure to find hard evidence of weapons of mass destruction that you can show.?
Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, briefing reporters at Central Command headquarters in Qatar, said he had no details on the suspicious powder but said that ?certainly it?s an item of interest.?
But Brooks volunteered another discovery in western Iraq. Special Operations troops raided a building there ?that we think now was probably an NBC training school,? he said, referring to nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.
Brooks said military commanders based that belief on a shelf of clear- and brown-glass bottles with yellow labels.
?Can we bring up the bottles?? he directed, calling for a photograph in his slide show.
?This is what we saw,? he said. ?One of them had been marked ?Tabun,? ? a nerve agent developed during World War II. The bottle, he said, contained a few drops of liquid.
He did not say whether tests showed the liquid to be the deadly chemical.

MANY ?ALARMS? EXPECTED
Iraq was obliged under U.N. resolutions to declare any stocks of nerve agent in its possession. But a quantity measured in milliliters, U.S. government and U.N. experts said, probably would not constitute a material breach of that obligation.
?There will be more and more alarms like this,? said an expert on nerve poisons with long experience in Iraq. ?If you have a vial marked ?Tabun,? it could be simulant, it could be a sample used for training purpose or for evaluation of protection equipment. ... The regular procedure is to put one drop on the surface of a material used in the production of a protection suit, and you analyze the penetration of this drop through the material.?
Chemical protection gear is permitted under the U.N. restrictions.
A serious find, the expert said, would involve ?Tabun in a munition, or in bulk storage, or traces of Tabun in a reaction vessel? of the sort used to manufacture the agent in quantity.
At part of the Qa Qaa facility, where the white powder appeared yesterday, UNSCOM ordered the destruction of reactors, heat exchangers and storage vessels suspected of chemical weapons production.
?There?s lots we don?t know about current whereabouts.?
? DOUGLAS J. FEITH
Undersecretary of defense for policy The weapons work had not taken place at that site, UNSCOM reported in the early 1990s, but Iraq had moved the dual-use equipment from the Muthana chemical weapons site, about 80 miles northwest of Baghdad, without declaring it. Under UNSCOM rules, the equipment was subject to destruction.
The International Atomic Energy Agency also reported, after a 10-day visit in September 1995, that Iraqi scientists acknowledged involvement of the Qa Qaa facility ?in support of the development of the implosion package? intended to detonate a nuclear weapon if Iraq acquired highly enriched uranium.

U.S. officials overseeing the weapons hunt generally do not expect to make major finds at sites previously identified as suspicious, noting that Iraq?s documented history of concealment relied on constant movement.
?There?s lots we don?t know about current whereabouts,? Douglas J. Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy, said in an interview. ?That?s going to be true until we have full control of the country, and even a time thereafter.?
He added: ?If you have [custody of] the people who know everything, and they tell you everything they know, then you could learn the whereabouts of everything very quickly. But if those people aren?t around, or they?re dead, or they?ve organized things in such a way that nobody has too much knowledge, it?s going to take you awhile.?

© 2003 The Washington Post Company
Maybe THAT'S why it's OFF the news.
 

gtd2000

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,731
0
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Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
not trying to start an anything, but the news is crazy, all over, hyped up.

Hehe - thats the real news dude - but they won't report that

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: gtd 2000
Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
not trying to start an anything, but the news is crazy, all over, hyped up.

Hehe - thats the real news dude - but they won't report that
Look up at the post above yours: "Truth will out".





"MSNBC is reporting a HUGE ammo dump discovered...possible chemical munitions", Looks pretty "ambigious", now . . . once the intitial reports are analyzed and the "hysteria" quiets down a bit.


 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
That white powder issue was resolved well before this post was started, you sure this is the same incident? This complex sounds much larger and better stocked than the one in which the vials were found.
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
0
Are these the same story? I heard about the white powder the other day, while this story these guys are talking about is relatively new. But then again, I can't believe any of this "breaking news" that comes out.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Marshallj
Are these the same story? I heard about the white powder the other day, while this story these guys are talking about is relatively new. But then again, I can't believe any of this "breaking news" that comes out.
It seems they are "related". Kind of like an MSNBC "disclamer" for last night's "exaggeration"?
. . . or not - it could be true.


The lesson seems to be, 'Wait for confirmation from multiple sources'.

 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
0
Yeah, that's why I don't get excited anymore when I hear these stories. As the saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

Once I hear a story like this, I've come to expect hearing a rebuttal shortly thereafter.
 
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