News Mueller Day - Thursday 4.18.19

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,030
29,935
146
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-press-conference

"Attorney General William Barr on Thursday affirmed that Special Counsel Robert Mueller found no evidence of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians during the 2016 presidential election, addressing reporters shortly before he is expected to release Mueller's report to Congress and to the public."


This needs to be put to rest already. It was a political witch hunt, no question about it. It was always built on the everybody gets a trophy crowd not being able to handle not getting their way. You lefties should apologize.

There is no grey matter left in the vacant bone hole that dangles atop your shoulders.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
11,124
7,571
136
So has the situation changed at all?

We know the Russians attempted to influence the election, as per every US intelligence agency.

We know high level members of the Trump administration and Trump campaign had various contacts with Russian operatives and we know that at least some of it was also about influencing the election, as per verbal and written statements from the culprits themselves and evidence from the intelligence agencies.

We know that Trump and various associates attempted to obstruct the course of justice and cover up those contacts, as per statements by Trump himself and repeated evidence of lying by him and his associates.

Yet somehow, despite a mountain of evidence, a lot of it straight from the mouths of the accused. They still don't have the evidence to go further with this? I don't believe Trump is an actual Russian agent. But the evidence shows multiple contacts that were , at best, inappropriate and, at worst, illegal. Even if you choose to ignore that. Trump has openly admitted to obstructing the course of justice. How is that not being acted upon?

In the minds of Trumpers NO!
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,902
9,158
136

Great work not coordinating at all with the Russians. Not saying this was a bad thing necessarily (why would I *want* retaliation?) but it shows the depth of connections achieved before Trump took the oath of office.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,765
8,150
136
Mueller's conclusion on obstruction of justice:

Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment, we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

Translation - "The only reason we're not charging him is because I'm not a prosecutor, and the rules are kinda unclear here... but if I was, his ass would probably be charged."
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,304
673
126
Omg was watching Faux news and they were grilling old Rudy with facts from the report.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
11,124
7,571
136
Report is live for those interested:

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

It looks like Appendix C lists Mueller's famous written questions to Trump, and Trump's responses. That section appears to be entirely unredacted. Obviously, I haven't yet had time to read it in detail, but a quick glance indicates (surprise!) quite a lot of not recalling of times, persons or events.


And the big question for Trumpers is, are they loyal to the United States and its Constitution or Trump?

I have my doubts!
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Think of the constitutional nightmare if I were wrong - the president could effectively veto congress’s Attempts to investigate him for impeachable offenses.

That’s begging for a dictatorship right there.

Yes, redacted grand jury testimony is literally the only thing that can save us from dictatorship. It’s like @fskimospy is the R2D2 hologram message of Princess Leia from Star Wars, “save me Robert Mueller your grand jury testimony is my only hope.”

Again it should be released but you are quite literally hoping for a political Hail Mary miracle here. Even if released the testimony isn’t going to get Trump out of office.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,050
13,252
146
Good stuff in here, pg 159.
Looks like Trump's council tried to get in front of the obstruction of justice charge by stating the president simply cannot obstruct justice, which the investigation concluded is false. Trump's council also conceded that he probably committed crimes.
 

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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,902
9,158
136


Does this mean that some of the evidence uncovered by the FBI/counterintel investigations (i.e. via FISA warrants) could not be used by Mueller's team? I wonder what was covered by "privilege"?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,030
29,935
146
Old school reporting - Do you mean the truth?

Actually...He's not even acting as a White House counsel. That would imply he is defending the integrity of the Office of the President. He's simply acting as a defense attorney for the shitbird in the Oval Office.

We've gone so low that I was actually saying to myself - "Well, at least he didn't savage Christopher Steele's reputation... yet!"

Right, this is always an important distinction. Representing the WH or the presidency is representing the institution, not the individual. There really isn't any government official, in the executive branch, that is authorized to represent or defend a single individual person in that position. Their duty is only and ever to the office. Any dereliction of that is grounds for removal. Appointment by that individual is irrelavent. You are sworn to defend that exact office from that very same individual if called to do so.

It seems that the GOP has long ago shed any pretense for such notions.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
I'll be expecting an apology from the Trump trolls any day now.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,501
15,385
136
Yes, redacted grand jury testimony is literally the only thing that can save us from dictatorship. It’s like @fskimospy is the R2D2 hologram message of Princess Leia from Star Wars, “save me Robert Mueller your grand jury testimony is my only hope.”

Again it should be released but you are quite literally hoping for a political Hail Mary miracle here. Even if released the testimony isn’t going to get Trump out of office.

Are you concerned about anything that has been released from the actual report?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,365
50,342
136
Yes, redacted grand jury testimony is literally the only thing that can save us from dictatorship. It’s like @fskimospy is the R2D2 hologram message of Princess Leia from Star Wars, “save me Robert Mueller your grand jury testimony is my only hope.”

Again it should be released but you are quite literally hoping for a political Hail Mary miracle here. Even if released the testimony isn’t going to get Trump out of office.

I'm not hoping for a political anything, I'm simply stating what the Constitution says. There is nothing that exists in the United States that can bar Congress from accessing any information the government possesses that is relevant to an impeachment inquiry. No classification, no grand jury testimony, nothing. The right is absolute.

Yes though, the executive branch having veto power over how it can be investigated would be catastrophic for democracy.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,902
9,158
136
From Abramson: "Wow—Mueller says the Trump campaign's data-sharing with a man tied to Russian intelligence (Kilimnik) began MONTHS BEFORE August 2016 and continued for MONTHS AFTER. which is *crazy* because Manafort (the Kilimnik contact) was fired in mid-August. How did the sharing happen [afterwards]?"
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I'm not hoping for a political anything, I'm simply stating what the Constitution says. There is nothing that exists in the United States that can bar Congress from accessing any information the government possesses that is relevant to an impeachment inquiry. No classification, no grand jury testimony, nothing. The right is absolute.

Yes though, the executive branch having veto power over how it can be investigated would be catastrophic for democracy.

Yeah let’s see how that “absolute right” goes when it bumps against separation of powers.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
All those times Trump tried to obstruct Justice? It wasn't malicious, folks. It was just incompetence. Stupid shit happens when people get mad. So let's just forget about it, OK?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,501
15,385
136
All those times Trump tried to obstruct Justice? It wasn't malicious, folks. It was just incompetence. Stupid shit happens when people get mad. So let's just forget about it, OK?

Trump obstructed justice. Just because he wasn't successful because the people around him stopped him doesn't mean he didn't obstruct.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,030
29,935
146
Who wants to take bets that Trump fights all of this all the way to SCOTUS?

I'm pretty confident that if that happens, related to this president, Roberts would swing pretty hard to the liberal justices. No way that guy wants this kind of crisis to stain his court and his legacy.
 
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