News Mueller Day - Thursday 4.18.19

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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
The first was that they felt they did not have enough evidence to prove that the Trump campaign officials involved in planning and attending the meeting were acting “willfully,” which the report defines as having “general knowledge of the illegality of their conduct.” Mueller’s investigators were unable to find “evidence that the participants in the meeting were familiar with the foreign-contribution ban,” according to the redacted report.

So, this really comes down to that no one on Mueller's team believed that anyone working for Trump was actually smart enough to collude with Russia?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,195
126
Don't expect a lot of moral self reflection from people conditioned to believe that their sins will send them to hell. They always think that God is as stupid as they are. This forum for them is just a place to practice
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Don't expect a lot of moral self reflection from people conditioned to believe that their sins will send them to hell. They always think that God is as stupid as they are. This forum for them is just a place to practice

The same people also believe they can repent for their sins to avoid hell. The problem is, they don't want to.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-press-conference

"Attorney General William Barr on Thursday affirmed that Special Counsel Robert Mueller found no evidence of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians during the 2016 presidential election, addressing reporters shortly before he is expected to release Mueller's report to Congress and to the public."


This needs to be put to rest already. It was a political witch hunt, no question about it. It was always built on the everybody gets a trophy crowd not being able to handle not getting their way. You lefties should apologize.

#fuckofftroll
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
So, this really comes down to that no one on Mueller's team believed that anyone working for Trump was actually smart enough to **collude with Russia?


**successfully.

the key point is **successfully**

There is ample, unending evidence that they desperately tried to do so. At the very least.

That's actually all that matters, really, to send such a person to the gallows.

This is basically the GOP argument:

"Benedict Arnold? We still won the war, right? So it doesn't matter. Let's build a statue for him."

This is, literally, the GOP of the last 4 decades. Full stop.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,046
38,547
136
Trump campaign is already running with “but Hillary”.

I heard the new communications lady, forget her name, today being asked questions on NPR. It was hilarious. You could tell that woman was just seething, wouldn't answer a straight question and brought up the Clinton Foundation in under 6 seconds. She sounded like she had just received a firm kick to the cat, and the host maintained a perfect tempo and polite, even voice. It was glorious.

And it's only going to get worse for him from here on out haha. I keep thinking of the "My presidency is over. I'm fucked." comment.

Awesome stuff!
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
I'm mostly finished reading the report. I wouldn't even know where to begin discussing the granular details. On "collusion," Trump's behavior was anywhere from sleazy to the point of disloyalty to country to a criminal conspiracy which simply can't be proven by direct evidence. We may never know. But on the issue of obstruction: FFS. Out of three possible conclusions Mueller could have drawn: prosecute, do not prosecute, or punt the decision to someone else, I can only speculate as to why he choose option 3. The sheer quantity of things Trump did - whether successful or not - to obstruct this investigation is staggering. This is one of the best cases I've ever seen for obstruction. It's a slam dunk IMO.

I have to think that Mueller for whatever reason doesn't want to be the one to recommend that Trump be prosecuted for attempting to obstruct Mueller's own investigation. Maybe Mueller thinks it would be perceived as a vendetta over Trump trying to fire Mueller more than once. So he wants another prosecutor to make that call. And Mueller knows Barr is a toady who would never prosecute Trump but that it doesn't matter anyway because Trump can't be prosecuted until he's out. Yet he also knows that a DoJ under a future administration can use this evidence he has marshalled to prosecute Trump if it so desires. That's my best guess at trying to understand why Mueller's conclusion doesn't seem to track the facts he laid out because if Trump isn't guilty of obstruction on those facts, then I'm the Dalai Lama.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,683
24,997
136
I heard the new communications lady, forget her name, today being asked questions on NPR. It was hilarious. You could tell that woman was just seething, wouldn't answer a straight question and brought up the Clinton Foundation in under 6 seconds. She sounded like she had just received a firm kick to the cat, and the host maintained a perfect tempo and polite, even voice. It was glorious.

And it's only going to get worse for him from here on out haha. I keep thinking of the "My presidency is over. I'm fucked." comment.

Awesome stuff!

We heard the same interview.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,331
15,128
136
I'm mostly finished reading the report. I wouldn't even know where to begin discussing the granular details. On "collusion," Trump's behavior was anywhere from sleazy to the point of disloyalty to country to a criminal conspiracy which simply can't be proven by direct evidence. We may never know. But on the issue of obstruction: FFS. Out of three possible conclusions Mueller could have drawn: prosecute, do not prosecute, or punt the decision to someone else, I can only speculate as to why he choose option 3. The sheer quantity of things Trump did - whether successful or not - to obstruct this investigation is staggering. This is one of the best cases I've ever seen for obstruction. It's a slam dunk IMO.

I have to think that Mueller for whatever reason doesn't want to be the one to recommend that Trump be prosecuted for attempting to obstruct Mueller's own investigation. Maybe Mueller thinks it would be perceived as a vendetta over Trump trying to fire Mueller more than once. So he wants another prosecutor to make that call. And Mueller knows Barr is a toady who would never prosecute Trump but that it doesn't matter anyway because Trump can't be prosecuted until he's out. Yet he also knows that a DoJ under a future administration can use this evidence he has marshalled to prosecute Trump if it so desires. That's my best guess at trying to understand why Mueller's conclusion doesn't seem to track the facts he laid out because if Trump isn't guilty of obstruction on those facts, then I'm the Dalai Lama.

Mueller couldn't indict because of the current AG and the departments policy is to not indict a sitting president. He punted because, ultimately, its up to Congress to remove a president.

The question I have is if the DOJ will indict trump after he is out of office. There is more than enough evidence to do so.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Only phrase one of this multiphase process.
Now it's up to congress, as it should be.
Tonight you can bet that at least one person, Nancy Pelosi, is doing her job,.
Nancy will determine if impeachment is necessary to proceed in order to get to the facts AG Barr refuses to provide.
This Mueller report in no way brings an end to any of this.....
Congress is where this belongs, and now the ball is in their court.
Expect a lot of investigations, questioning witnesses, more subpoenas, and probable impeachment hearings.
Impeachment... only to have access to what Barr and the Trump administration refuses to give up.

The big WHAT NOW is whether republicans in the Senate will go along?
Naturally senate republicans will refuse, but as the evidence mounts up Senate republicans will be forced to deal with this.
Yet regardless, the final say is up to the people.
We can simply toss Trump out come 2020 and rid America of this scum.
Trump will be out, the investigations will continue, and the truth will be known despite Donald Trump having fled America onto more friend governments.
North Korea or the Soviet Union.

Anyone doubt that this weenie Donald Trump would not flee if the need arose?
Imagine.... Donald Trump on the FBI's most wanted list.
The same FBI Trump tried to discredit.
And now it all makes sense...
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
Mueller wussed out and/or didn't want to harm his party irreparably. Look at Manafort getting off over not possibly knowing about election law, or not interviewing Trump because of "too much time", or Don Sr. not knowing what was going on (really?) despite Don Jr. telling the rest of his family and others about the dirt on Hillary....
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Mueller couldn't indict because of the current AG and the departments policy to not indict a sitting president. He punted because, ultimately, its up to Congress to remove a president.

The question I have is if the DOJ will indict trump after he is out of office. There is more than enough evidence to do so.

The policy of not indicting a sitting president has been in place since Nixon, at least. It's the only logically consistent policy available. Otherwise we could conceivably get presidenting from a prison cell. The possibility of Trump being indicted while in office never existed. Mueller had no choice to make in that regard & said so.

The only Constitutional remedy to a criminal President is impeachment & removal from office. The law treats ex-Presidents just like everybody else at that point.

Should Trump survive to lose in 2020, I figure Pence will go down in the history books as President for a day, just so he can pardon Trump.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
The policy of not indicting a sitting president has been in place since Nixon, at least. It's the only logically consistent policy available. Otherwise we could conceivably get presidenting from a prison cell. The possibility of Trump being indicted while in office never existed. Mueller had no choice to make in that regard & said so.

You could wait until after the term is done. If not, why not impeach and have it roll over to the next in line? if it's bad enough, the party protecting them would implode or popularity would decrease due to a president not being able to carry out their duties. I think more worrisome is a runaway presidency into autocracy than this silly worry about a president presidenting from Leavenworth. People ignorantly think nothing much must be wrong if no one is doing anything about it ie. no crime, no foul! So it seems obvious what's worse.

Even the Democrats are foolishly going along with the GOP talking points. This sounds so idiotic.

“Based on what we have seen to date, going forward on impeachment is not worthwhile at this point. Very frankly, there is an election in 18 months and the American people will make a judgement,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told @DanaBashCNN .
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,417
7,051
136
Clear your cache since clicking that link might be affiliated and give Russians money off your amazon buys.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,572
7,823
136
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