Multiple fatalities in shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church

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xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
That is an actual unedited audio clip from Lee Atwater, Reagan's political strategist, the one all GOP contenders hold dear and immortalize as they want to get the same electoral votes as Reagan did.. 49 out of 50 states.

So if a democrat wanted to get 49 states would they be immortalizing Reagan and therefore Lee Atwater and therefore racism which applied to 95% of their base?

That's some mighty strong delusion you got there.
 

m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
635
1,022
136
The media and America has a double standard when it comes to crime and race.

White shooter: mentally troubled lone wolf
Muslims shooter: entire religion guilty
Black shooter: entire race guilty
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
The media and America has a double standard when it comes to crime and race.

White shooter: mentally troubled lone wolf
Muslims shooter: entire religion guilty
Black shooter: entire race guilty
No it's only 1 standard
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
The media and America has a double standard when it comes to crime and race.

White shooter: mentally troubled lone wolf
Muslims shooter: entire religion guilty
Black shooter: entire race guilty

Exhibit #4
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,444
7,061
136
So if a democrat wanted to get 49 states would they be immortalizing Reagan and therefore Lee Atwater and therefore racism which applied to 95% of their base?

That's some mighty strong delusion you got there.

It's deeper than that.

Republicans long ago hitched their wagon to the racist and xenophobic stars. It began with Goldwater and it was Nixon who deliberately set out to capture the Wallace voters. Lee Atwater refined and perfected the strategy. And, for a while, it succeeded brilliantly. Reagan and both Bushes profited handsomely from their manipulation.

But, something happened along the way. The people whom the Republicans exploited for support actually became the base of the Republican Party. Republicans no longer manipulated the racists and xenophobes; they were owned by them. That is the state of today's Republican Party. It isn't just a party that caters to racists and haters, it is a party composed essentially of them.

That is why Republican candidates are all competing for the same voters -- voters who are actively looking for candidates who mirror their racism, ignorance and hate. These candidates will pander and pander to the racists and xenophobes in their base.

Ignoring the cause here in this tragedy is just the latest pandering to their base.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
This guy ain't nuts. He just hated black people and wanted to kill as many as he could.

unfortunately there are still racist. Though most wouldn't do what this asshat did.

from the info so far this guy should get the death penalty.


edit: someone called him a terrorist. i agree. he went in to kill some and left some alive to spread the word. he did this to scare blacks.

I haven't read anything that showes he has a mental illness either.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
It's deeper than that.

Republicans long ago hitched their wagon to the racist and xenophobic stars. It began with Goldwater and it was Nixon who deliberately set out to capture the Wallace voters. Lee Atwater refined and perfected the strategy. And, for a while, it succeeded brilliantly. Reagan and both Bushes profited handsomely from their manipulation.

But, something happened along the way. The people whom the Republicans exploited for support actually became the base of the Republican Party. Republicans no longer manipulated the racists and xenophobes; they were owned by them. That is the state of today's Republican Party. It isn't just a party that caters to racists and haters, it is a party composed essentially of them.

That is why Republican candidates are all competing for the same voters -- voters who are actively looking for candidates who mirror their racism, ignorance and hate. These candidates will pander and pander to the racists and xenophobes in their base.

Ignoring the cause here in this tragedy is just the latest pandering to their base.

You are right, it's not just delusion, it's deeper than that.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,444
7,061
136
Weird that you subtracted his Robert Byrd line.

Another dinosaur loonybin who opposed the Civil Rights act and wanted to still have segregration just like the shooter?

Is that what you wanted to hear?

And yes I know about that he was a democrat.. we've come a long way since the Civil Rights act.. the parties re-aligned. They will re-align again after the GOP gets rid of its racists.

But in present day 2015 the truth is the democrats are the progressive party, not the ones trying to get the racist vote. Will it be that way in 2020? I dunno.. show me a crystal ball.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,444
7,061
136
You are right, it's not just delusion, it's deeper than that.

Why are Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace so scornful of their own party now? Why do they call it the party of crazy?

See the good reasonable people are only the 5% of the GOP party. If you have the time, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR3YIxuT4uQ

When they say they want to take their country back.. what do they mean? Back to segregation, back to slavery? back to where only white men landowners could vote? back to when women were property?

If they mean back to where they didn't have racists and xenophobes in their party, I'm saying amen!
 
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DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,579
1,629
136
The problem with a "lone wolf" is that they are not alone. The KKK found out real fast what happens to organizations that attack and kill people, and they now count on the "lone Wolf" to do what their packs of wolves used to do.

This guy acted alone but is anything but alone in what he believes about black people.

Here's a bullshit quote from the WSJ about this guy:

What causes young men such as Dylann Roof to erupt in homicidal rage, whatever their motivation, is a problem that defies explanation beyond the reality that evil still stalks humanity. It is no small solace that in committing such an act today, he stands alone.
No, this problem does not defy explanation. This is the mealy-mouthed answer that the media feeds us so we feel helpless and think there is nothing we can do about this. This evil does not stalk humanity, this evil IS cloaked as humanity and people like this writer help to keep them cloaked. There is no solace that in committing the act he did we all know that someone else will do the same or worse in the future. He is not alone in his twisted thoughts, feelings and beliefs. The problem is racism and the people who feed it, who stoke it, who excuse it and who falsely decry the violence that is perpetrated by racists.

I'm talking about the Republican party of today.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
Remember, a Republican said this:

I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,447
7,383
136
Glad to see the Progressive Left is using yet another tragedy to push their agenda, well done.
http://nyti.ms/1GWfOKv
Yep. Political left taking advantage of this tragedy

Charles Cotton, a member of the board of the National Rifle Association, engaged in a sick act of victim blaming. He said Clementa Pinkney, a pastor and state legislator who was gunned down in the church, “voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
From The Nation. Gee. How unbiased.

Apparently no one knows the name Robert Byrd anymore.

Your comments betray your ignorance on this issue. Open up a history book. It'll probably prevent you from repeatedly saying dumb stuff. Well.. maybe.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,531
2
81
it wasn't an attack on black people...it was at attack on Christianity, right?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,278
9,361
146
One black man's personal take on this, which I would wish every poster here harping on "he's mentally ill" while giving mere pro forma acknowledgement to the racism part, which is at the core of this tragedy would take to heart:

"Clementa was a very, very, very good friend. Joshua, I just don't have the words..."

My dad’s voice broke open when I spoke with him yesterday. And my father, a strong African Methodist Episcopal (A.M.E.) preacher, doesn't tend to crack. He knew Rev. Clementa Pinckney, the murdered pastor of Emanuel A.M.E., well. They were friends.

[...]

But then we have to come back to this...sickness. That’s what it feels like to me: a sickness. Not just the one-off malady of an insane individual. But a pervasive, gnawing illness that affects him and others in our country in varying, curious ways.

[...]

This sickness is the cancer of unacknowledged bias and supremacy. It has been with us since our founding, and civil rights laws, personal achievements and trappings of success for a fortunate few African Americans have not made us well.

That same illness very likely affected the man who killed the nine A.M.E. souls at Emanuel Church. Yes, the killer was deranged; but he simply had a more extreme version of a common malady. That malady threatens to kill many more - either directly, as in Charleston, or indirectly from the attendant hate and pain.

The question now is: Will we convince ourselves of the delusion that this killer is the only one who is sick? Or will we examine our national conscience and finally take steps to become well?

One of those steps has to be White Americans having an honest conversation about White culture. Yes, White culture.

If that sounds shocking, think about this: how many times have we explicitly asked Black folks to address the ‘problems’ of Black culture, from fatherlessness to violent music to shootings in Chicago? African Americans engage in these conversations regularly. Now it’s time for my White brothers and sisters lead their own conversations as well.

We need dinner table conversations about how some White children grow up without a racist bone in their body, but others are predisposed to sing songs about “******s” on a fraternity bus. How does that happen? What is the cause, and what is the solution? White Americans need to drive this dialogue.

We need conversations about how many gun owners are responsible, but others, surrounded by mortal weapons, seem ready to blow at any moment, searching desperately for an apocalypse to confront or war to fight. What creates the type of paranoia and fear? This discussion needs to be had at the Lion’s Club, the gun range, around tables in White homes.

We need conversations about why, the moment an African American man was elected to the White house, some people wanted him to “fail” and others desperately sought to “take our country back.” Take our country back from whom? And to where? Where is it, precisely, that some folks would have us go? My brothers and sisters from the majority culture – White Americans – need to have the courage to drive this dialogue, and help us find some answers.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
One black man's personal take on this, which I would wish every poster here harping on "he's mentally ill" while giving mere pro forma acknowledgement to the racism part, which is at the core of this tragedy would take to heart:

I think he's missing a key detail, that conversation has already happened in a lot of families. It sure happened in mine. Hell it happens on PBS shows for kids. The answer is "some people are racist morons and there's fuck-all us non-racists can do about it".

He tries to equate "white culture" with "black culture", and while yes both terms are a misnomer, "black culture" has a lot more existence than "white culture". There are recognized black leaders, black icons, none the least of which is Barack Obama himself, there's the black caucus. In elections African Americans are marketed to as one demographic, and it works. By contrast, who are the "white leaders"? The "white icons"? I'm not talking white people who happen to be leaders, I'm talking leaders who are specifically recognized in part because they're white. There aren't any unless you want to look at what's left of the KKK, and I think we'd all rather not look there.

Sure white people can speak about racism, can acknowledge it, can talk about it. That's not going to change any racist minds anymore than talking about how great Obamacare is changed Republican minds. What are we supposed to do? March on the South Carolina capitol, take down the confederate flag and demand all roads named after confederate generals be changed? Even if successful, that's not going to change a damn thing. The racists didn't die when they lost a brutal war, they didn't die when blacks got equal rights. They're not going to die because we tear down some racist posters.

The most any of us can do is be non-racist, denounce racism when it comes up, and hope that our collective subtle influence continues to shift society away from such things.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,278
9,361
146
I think he's missing a key detail, that conversation has already happened in a lot of families. It sure happened in mine. Hell it happens on PBS shows for kids. The answer is "some people are racist morons and there's fuck-all us non-racists can do about it".

Sorry, but that's not the answer. That's a "stick your head in the sand" cop out. If that's all your parents told you, they failed you miserably.

Let's apply your answer to other scenarios, so maybe even you can see its moral and intellectual poverty.

The answer is, "Some people are gun-grabbing morons and there's fuck-all us non-gun-grabbing-morons can do about it."

The answer is, "Some people are murderous,Western hating jihadists and there's nothing us non-Western hating, non-jihadists can do about it."

The answer is, "Some people are satanic pederasts and there's nothing us non-satanic, non-pederasts can do about it."

Some people present themselves as and believe themselves not to be racists, but shrug their shoulders on this one issue and pretend there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Why is that?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,521
136
Sorry, but that's not the answer. That's a "stick your head in the sand" cop out. If that's all your parents told you, they failed you miserably.

Let's apply your answer to other scenarios, so maybe even you can see its moral and intellectual poverty.

The answer is, "Some people are gun-grabbing morons and there's fuck-all us non-gun-grabbing-morons can do about it."

The answer is, "Some people are murderous,Western hating jihadists and there's nothing us non-Western hating, non-jihadists can do about it."

The answer is, "Some people are satanic pederasts and there's nothing us non-satanic, non-pederasts can do about it."

Some people present themselves as and believe themselves not to be racists, but shrug their shoulders on this one issue and pretend there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Why is that?

Well said!
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,590
7,651
136
Some people present themselves as and believe themselves not to be racists, but shrug their shoulders on this one issue and pretend there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Why is that?

We should put the kid down like the rabid dog he is.
What else is there to do?

WHO are we to act against, to target, and make laws to curtail?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
I think he's missing a key detail, that conversation has already happened in a lot of families. It sure happened in mine. Hell it happens on PBS shows for kids. The answer is "some people are racist morons and there's fuck-all us non-racists can do about it".

He tries to equate "white culture" with "black culture", and while yes both terms are a misnomer, "black culture" has a lot more existence than "white culture". There are recognized black leaders, black icons, none the least of which is Barack Obama himself, there's the black caucus. In elections African Americans are marketed to as one demographic, and it works. By contrast, who are the "white leaders"? The "white icons"? I'm not talking white people who happen to be leaders, I'm talking leaders who are specifically recognized in part because they're white. There aren't any unless you want to look at what's left of the KKK, and I think we'd all rather not look there.

Sure white people can speak about racism, can acknowledge it, can talk about it. That's not going to change any racist minds anymore than talking about how great Obamacare is changed Republican minds. What are we supposed to do? March on the South Carolina capitol, take down the confederate flag and demand all roads named after confederate generals be changed? Even if successful, that's not going to change a damn thing. The racists didn't die when they lost a brutal war, they didn't die when blacks got equal rights. They're not going to die because we tear down some racist posters.

The most any of us can do is be non-racist, denounce racism when it comes up, and hope that our collective subtle influence continues to shift society away from such things.

bwhahahha white leaders. not going to happen.

only way to stop the racism is to continue to talk about it. but personally i don't think its going to change. When racism is allowed in one direction as it is today in TV, politics, education etc. you are always going to have htose that use that to continue the hatred.
 
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