Multitasking vs Multithreading... someone please answer...

[DeepBlueJH]

Every benchmark I've ever seen on a dual processor setup only utilized one process at a time. What I want to know is if Hyperthreading or a dual processor system will allow you to multitask with speed. I dont use too many applications that are coded for more than one processor, but I frequently multitask and its getting easy to bog this 1.7Ghz P4 down.

I want to be able to do something CPU intensive while surfing the internet, chatting or working in photoshop. Will hyperthreading/dual procs let me do this or will the programs only use one processor unless specifically coded for two?

Thanks.

 

[cmdrdredd]

if the OS can dynamically distribute processes between CPUs then yes. The only OS I know for sure that does this is Mac OS X although I heard Xp does a bit?

 

[DeepBlueJH]

and I use XP... so it would be helpful if anyone with a hyperthreaded/dual proc system could give some first hand experience...

 

[everman]

Multitasking = doing more than 1 thing at once. ie running word and excel at the same time.

Multithraeding = if you have multiple cpus, some instructions get sent to one cpu, other instructions to the other cpu. each cpu obviously has less to do to accomplish the same task = faster.

 

[BFG10K]

Any modern OS that supports SMP (eg Linux, Windows NT, MacOS X, etc) is capable of spreading processor load across multiple CPUs. And if the program is multithreaded then the OS can spread the threads across the processors as well.

 

[EKAtBzboyz]

xp pro=capable of smp i believe
xp home= not capable of smp i believe

 

[DeepBlueJH]

ok cool... "load spreading" is what I was asking about I guess...
Think makes my case for upgrading from a 1.7Ghz P4 (williamette) to a 3GHz P4 a lot better

 

[GoSharks]

if you are using two or more programs at the same time, you will be using multiple processors. the os (winnt base, linux, macX, etc) is smart enough to spread it out.

multi-threaded means that ONE program is able to use both processors to process whatever it is asking.

 

[DeepBlueJH]

Originally posted by: GOSHARKS
if you are using two or more programs at the same time, you will be using multiple processors. the os (winnt base, linux, macX, etc) is smart enough to spread it out.

multi-threaded means that ONE program is able to use both processors to process whatever it is asking.

Thanks, thats what I was looking for

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: DeepBlueJH
Every benchmark I've ever seen on a dual processor setup only utilized one process at a time. What I want to know is if Hyperthreading or a dual processor system will allow you to multitask with speed. I dont use too many applications that are coded for more than one processor, but I frequently multitask and its getting easy to bog this 1.7Ghz P4 down.

I want to be able to do something CPU intensive while surfing the internet, chatting or working in photoshop. Will hyperthreading/dual procs let me do this or will the programs only use one processor unless specifically coded for two?

Thanks.

How exactly are you bogging that CPU down? How much ram do you have?

 

[FishTankX]

Oookay.. i'll try to explain this.

Multitasking is a generic term for using more than 1 program at a time. Each 1ms or so the operating system let's another program has a turn. This creates the illusion of all programs running at once .


Hyper threading is a way to use wasted execution resources on a CPU. You see, up till now a CPU is only capable of handling 1 thread at a time. There's a very high chance, that this thread isn't capable of using all of the execution resources (4 interger instructions, 1 floating point instruction, and 1 SSE2/SSE/MMX instruction, per clock, for the P4.) and multhreading lets another thread execute inside the CPU to sort of absorb those processor resources.

Generally speaking, this results in more processor power, but practically speaking, it's possible for programs to contend with eachother for execution resources and the whole thing 'll bog down and you'll get ap erformance hit. Once the OS is optimised for it, hyper threading can result in a more responsive system.
Note:Hyper threading results in the creation of 2 virtual CPU's.

The reason for DP's responsivness (Dual processors, that is) is that programs that would originally monopolize a CPU and make all of the other programs sluggish, can now monopolize *1* CPU and leave the others free for other programs.

Example:Whenever the system is transfering files between HDD's and stuff, the system feels slughish
Dual processors help when: One CPU can handle all of the work related to the HDD, and the other CPU could handle other stuff.

Example: one program locks up
Dual processors help when: One CPU is at 100% usage by the program going nuts, the other CPU can handle the rest of the load of the system, resulting in virtual recovery from a situation of Doom for a single processor system

Example: You want to encode a movie, and play games at the same time
Dual processors help when:The game is offloaded to CPU 1, the encoder thread is offloaded to CPU 2

Example:Burning, websurfing, chatting, just everything you could imagine, going on at once.
Dual processors help when:They're able to spread programs across processors so that no program feels "Bogged down" due to being neglected by the CPU in light of more demanding tasks.

Basicly, hyperthreading would create another virtual CPU, allowing the benefits of Dual CPU (In a slightly less effective manner, as it *is* only 1 physical CPU) without the cost ascosciated with dual CPU's.

My question, is that you're running on a 1.7GHZ Williamette, which doesn't support hyperthreading. Chances are, your motherboard doesn't either. Are you prepared to shell out big money for a 3GHZ processor, a ne wmotherboard that supports hyprethreading etc...?

If so, i'd reccomend a granite bay board to go with it.

 

[Celstar]

that was a good explaination, fishtank

 

[Valinos]

Originally posted by: FishTankX
Oookay.. i'll try to explain this.

Multitasking is a generic term for using more than 1 program at a time. Each 1ms or so the operating system let's another program has a turn. This creates the illusion of all programs running at once .


Hyper threading is a way to use wasted execution resources on a CPU. You see, up till now a CPU is only capable of handling 1 thread at a time. There's a very high chance, that this thread isn't capable of using all of the execution resources (4 interger instructions, 1 floating point instruction, and 1 SSE2/SSE/MMX instruction, per clock, for the P4.) and multhreading lets another thread execute inside the CPU to sort of absorb those processor resources.

Generally speaking, this results in more processor power, but practically speaking, it's possible for programs to contend with eachother for execution resources and the whole thing 'll bog down and you'll get ap erformance hit. Once the OS is optimised for it, hyper threading can result in a more responsive system.
Note:Hyper threading results in the creation of 2 virtual CPU's.

The reason for DP's responsivness (Dual processors, that is) is that programs that would originally monopolize a CPU and make all of the other programs sluggish, can now monopolize *1* CPU and leave the others free for other programs.

Example:Whenever the system is transfering files between HDD's and stuff, the system feels slughish
Dual processors help when: One CPU can handle all of the work related to the HDD, and the other CPU could handle other stuff.

Example: one program locks up
Dual processors help when: One CPU is at 100% usage by the program going nuts, the other CPU can handle the rest of the load of the system, resulting in virtual recovery from a situation of Doom for a single processor system

Example: You want to encode a movie, and play games at the same time
Dual processors help when:The game is offloaded to CPU 1, the encoder thread is offloaded to CPU 2

Example:Burning, websurfing, chatting, just everything you could imagine, going on at once.
Dual processors help when:They're able to spread programs across processors so that no program feels "Bogged down" due to being neglected by the CPU in light of more demanding tasks.

Basicly, hyperthreading would create another virtual CPU, allowing the benefits of Dual CPU (In a slightly less effective manner, as it *is* only 1 physical CPU) without the cost ascosciated with dual CPU's.

My question, is that you're running on a 1.7GHZ Williamette, which doesn't support hyperthreading. Chances are, your motherboard doesn't either. Are you prepared to shell out big money for a 3GHZ processor, a ne wmotherboard that supports hyprethreading etc...?

If so, i'd reccomend a granite bay board to go with it.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a slight problem. With a dual processor system, the programs are actually split between the processors. For example: When I run Folding@Home which takes up 100% of one CPU normally, it gets split between the two processors in my system to look more like 60/40. However, if I want to isolate a program to one processor I can change the CPU affinity in Task Manager and put F@H on CPU1, therefore making it hit 100% and CPU0 stays at 0. I prefer to just let the program split between the two CPUs to keep them around the same temperature and load, but some programs gain a performance boost when you switch the affinity to a single processor.

I love my dual AXP 1800+ setup. I never have lag or slowdown any more. No bogging down. I can encode video and play Wolfenstein at the same time. I can encode two videos at once if I want...and still have some cycles left to surf the net. This thing is a beast...once you go dual you'll never go back. However, I'm skeptical of the whole HT thing. It seems like a cool idea to help improve CPU efficiency, but I can see problems developing that a normal dual processor system wouldn't have. For the price that a 3.06 P4 and Granite Bay are gonna cost you, I suggest going with a REAL dual setup. I'd recommend going with a Dual Athlon setup (I unlocked my 1800+ XPs to MP's and saved myself $160), but if you prefer Intel over AMD then you could go with a Dual Xeon rig. The price on a Dual X rig is gonna be pretty significant though and will put some hurting on your wallet...The only viable dual processor setup for your regular consumer is the Athlon IMO.

I wish Intel would allow regular P4's to work in a dual setup though...maybe one day...

 

[Macro2]

Apparently W2k and prior OSes don't support hyperthreading. So all you would-be hyperthreaders out there best be downgrading to Windows XP.

Mac

 

[FishTankX]

Heh, well, allowing DP P4's would make the Xeon absolutley pointless.

But yeah, it is a dream.. that would give my 1.7GHZ P4 something to live for. As I assume 2 1.7's might be more responsive with a heavy load than a single 2.8