Music for long term storage...

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eton975

Senior member
Jun 2, 2014
283
8
81
Any particular Toshiba? Any thoughts on the WD20EZRX WD Green Caviar? The thing is the 2TB of that is more affordable for me than the WD20EFRX WD Red I can also get here on Amazon.

The DT01ACA300 in particular as an alternative to the crappy ST3000DM001. Also, the DT01ACA200, but the ST2000DM001 seems OK. Buy whichever is the cheapest between the Toshiba, WD and Seagate 2TB drives.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
216
106
I had heard reds were only for NAS and CCTV camera setups, and that greens were annoying because the whole "green" element was to conserve energy by stopping spinning but in this case, it's fine because they're only backup drives, right?
Red's can be used for general usage as well. They just have extra features for NAS (eg, TLER command). Greens don't stop spinning (you can do / disable power down with any drive via Windows -> Control Panel -> Power Options), it's just they park their heads more often to save a fraction more energy. Something like every 5-7 seconds? Fine for laptops, but that's best disabled for desktops. There is a utility available that can disable it on both though, so for non NAS usage you might as well get the Green.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
1,452
22
81
Buy whichever is the cheapest between the Toshiba, WD and Seagate 2TB drives.
for non NAS usage you might as well get the Green.
You and others here have been extremely helpful and I refuse to keep going any further as someone who owns and curates valuable digital media without adopting new backup procedures. That's it, I'm done being careless. A few years ago, I lost an entire 500GB of incredibly difficult to find music and music I had spent a LONG time capturing from LPs and 78s. In that moment, when I realised I had lost it all, the first thing I thought of was the time tagging everything. The music, in some way or another was recuperable, slowly. But the time tagging was something I'd never get back.

Therefore, in light of my new best practices, let me just ask you one last thing, just to see if I'm getting this backing up methodology down... I'm thinking of doing the following, 3 HDDs:
Main drive in the computer - A
Second drive in another bay, powered, connected - B
Third drive, offline, not in computer at all - C

I don't write to A enough to warrant daily updates/backups, but I'd say twice a month couldn't hurt. Plus, if any particular week I get tons of tagging done, then it would prompt an in-between back up just to update all that work. (with discographies, this can get heavy)

Then (I got this from someone else) every few months, rotate which one is the A, the B, and the C (I think the idea is that then no drive ever sits for too long without being powered, but to me I wonder if that's even an issue with hard drives). Let's assume they do get rotated, I'm thinking these should all be HDDs that CAN be used as daily work drives (listening to music, watching videos from them). Because if A craps out one day, B should be able to go into its place and be a drive that can be read from regularly and not have any head parking or any other such feature that makes it only useful as a storage drive. No? Side question... typically, unless I'm wrong, electronic devices don't like being powered on from an off state. How does constantly re-waking a HDD affect it long-term?

How is all of that for a system? (..I'm trying, guys, go easy on me...:$)
 
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XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
4,307
450
126
If you're that concerned about data loss, I'd strongly recommend reconsidering your aversion to cloud backups.
 

Charlie98

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2011
6,292
62
91
Therefore, in light of my new best practices, let me just ask you one last thing, just to see if I'm getting this backing up methodology down... I'm thinking of doing the following, 3 HDDs:
Main drive in the computer - A
Second drive in another bay, powered, connected - B
Third drive, offline, not in computer at all - C

I don't write to A enough to warrant daily updates/backups, but I'd say twice a month couldn't hurt. Plus, if any particular week I get tons of tagging done, then it would prompt an in-between back up just to update all that work. (with discographies, this can get heavy)

Just offhand comments on previous posts...

WD Reds are OK. I got one (the original was bad OOB, by the way; WD replaced it with a bigger one, which is still in use) in my HTPC, it works just as well as any of the other drives I have. It's been rotated to backup files, so it doesn't really see that much read use any longer.

If I lost my main HTPC storage drive, a 5TB Toshiba, I have a backup of all the valuable (to me) files across two separate 3TB drives... even though I still have the source material. However, like you mentioned, those files represent 100's of hours of labor ripping, tagging, and properly filing... something that I'm not anxious to do again.

I use portable drives on my main desktop... because if the house catches on fire or thieves steal my PC, I have a reasonably current copy of my OS stored securely elsewhere... away from my PC. A portable drive is the easiest way to do this. Yes, you can use HDDs in a hot swap bay or something, but then you are fooling with a bare drive... in my mind not a good idea.

One or two backup drives in the PC itself are there as a current backup (and, in the case of a 2nd drive, a backup to the backup...) I think Acronis will make incremental backups, either as you go or on a schedule (say, every morning at 2AM when the computer is idle, etc.) Personally, I just make full images every night, approximately a 200GB file, of my OS drive.

In your case, where you are trying to maintain a backup of a large amount of data (not necessarily an OS drive like me) I would have Acronis do incremental backups every night to your internal drive(s,) and a full backup to whatever external source(s) you have, say once a week, and manage at least 2 separate external drives in some sort of rotation to guard against loss or damage.

Backups are important, don't get me wrong... just don't overthink it. Keep it simple, it's more likely you will continue to use it if it doesn't require continual effort... like pulling hard drives out of the computer. With the system I outlined above all that is required of you is to swap a USB-powered external drive out once a week or two, and, of course, validating the backups that are generated.
 

Erithan13

Senior member
Oct 25, 2015
218
79
66
I've got about 2TB of files (mostly photos) that I absolutely cannot lose plus another TB of things like games that would be inconvenient but not catastrophic if they went. I've adopted 3 things to keep the data safe, this might be of interest to you:

1) All the files are on a 4TB system drive so I have a 4TB external drive as a primary backup. Most of the files are static and have already been copied onto the external drive. Whenever I get new photos they all go into one main folder and I use an application called Synkron to match that folder with the one on the external drive to make sure they're safely backed up on there. This means the external drive is only powered on once a week or so which saves it from wear and tear and also minimises the risk of a virus/ransomware trying to nuke the external drive as well. I usually synchronise the less critical folders (games, programs) as well although it's not so essential with them. I'm considering whether I should abandon this and go straight to differential imaging of the internal drive to the external drive as it will cut out some of the work. Problem I've found previously is that I have on the order of 1.5 million photos from many years of timelapses and I've found many synchronising programs crap themselves at such a thing and won't work. What I'd say is if you can directly image the disk definitely do so as it's less tedious and annoying that trying to manually keep on top of what folders need updated even with a program like synkron to help out.

2)I have a 2TB external drive offsite with only the most critical irreplaceable files on it. It's almost full so it'll probably be getting replaced soon, as it is I bring it home every month to check it's still intact and holding the data. Provides security against fire/theft etc of the primary external drive.

3)I use LiveDrive cloud backup for the irreplaceable files. It's another very comforting line of defense that I've never needed to use in all the years I've been subscribed, nevertheless it's well worth paying for even if the initial upload can take ages. It's best to leave the system on continuously if you can to take advantage of the much improved upload speeds overnight/early morning. I know that feeling about not wanting to trust the cloud but if you don't you're having to trust whatever you're using instead far more. Any decent cloud provider will also offer remote access to all the files which means I can get my entire photo collection accessed while on the move.

I feel pretty secure with all this as the most important files are on 2 separate backup drives and online to boot. I thought about burning the 2Tb to the 100gb Blu-Rays but for the cost of the burner and discs I'd rather get another external backup drive. It's much easier to verify if the external drive is intact than do the same for 20 discs.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
1,452
22
81
Thank you to everyone here, particularly Charlie98 and BSim500. I have learned an enormous amount about HDDs, storage, backup strategies, software and more. Your time spent answering my relentless questions was not in vain (if you consider someone learning something 'not in vain'). In the end I went with the WD Green WD20EZRX.

What I'd love to know at this point is how, at any moment in time, to be able to look at a stack of HDDs and be able to determine which one is best for particular applications. The industry moves too fast for me I think to be able to follow which manufacturer is best at any moment but I wish there was a way to know, ok, so this one has this this and this and therefore it's better for storage, or daily reading, or constant writing.
 
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Charlie98

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2011
6,292
62
91
If you look at the WD line, certainly the most prolific in models, you find task-specific models like Purple (AV recording,) Red (NAS,) RE4 (Enterprise,) etc. The purposes of those in particular are obvious. For a general purpose drive you can really boil it down to 3 drives... the Green, the Blue, and the Black. They all do the same basic thing... the Green is supposed to be more energy efficient, the Blue is entry level with a price and warranty to match, and the Black is 'premium'... again, with a price and warranty to match. Pick one that fits your budget and comfort zone. The differences in the specialty drives like the Purple and Red is typically software... all else being equal. The Purple AV drive, for example, is most likely a Green with different software (and I, in fact, have what was the predecessor to the Purple... the Green AUDX.)

My rule of thumb on general purpose drives is to buy whatever is on sale in the size you want. All drives fail, no matter what brand, so splitting hairs over which drive brand or model to get is pointless... just get whatever is on sale (that, again, fits your budget and application) and back it up. I have a cornucopia of drives between all my PCs... I don't really have a favorite.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
1,452
22
81
Just rereading this thread where I got SO much help about backing up. Believe it or not it's taken me this long to get going because I had a big retagging project and didn't want to back up until then. Just curious.. any favourite programs for this? I've got Acronis but if there's some other very simple program that's free that people love for backups that never fails, I'd love to hear about it.
It's always just going to copy at the speed the drives can write at, right? All I need is to plug in the drive in a few weeks and select an option that literally changes what's on the backup to reflect all the changes made on the original drive.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,389
23
81
Just rereading this thread where I got SO much help about backing up. Believe it or not it's taken me this long to get going because I had a big retagging project and didn't want to back up until then. Just curious.. any favourite programs for this? I've got Acronis but if there's some other very simple program that's free that people love for backups that never fails, I'd love to hear about it.
It's always just going to copy at the speed the drives can write at, right? All I need is to plug in the drive in a few weeks and select an option that literally changes what's on the backup to reflect all the changes made on the original drive.

In the last couple of years I have moved away from Acronis to Macrium Reflect and settled on EaseUs Todo.
 

tweakboy

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2010
9,517
2
81
www.hammiestudios.com
My 850 gets crystal diskmark 7000 mbps read and 6000 write ,,

all fake numbers. I test the 850 I get avg 4000 read and write,,,,,,

I hvae tried acrystal disk mark ,,, bunk

AS SSD ,, shows 1100 read and 150 write ,


do I need to align ? I just installed the sammy align app,, but it doesnt work,,,,,,,,
 
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