Music People - Question for you

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
OK, so A-G major and minor, for 14 notes?

I am just trying to equate this to paints and the number of colors you get from the three primary colors, compared (or related) to music. I was hoping this would be easier to do, lol.

EDIT: I mean notes.

There are a theoretically an infinite number of notes, but in practice the piano's 88 notes will cover most of what you'll hear.

The correlation between color and sound is pretty complex and can go far beyond notes. The most basic connection might be to the 12 pitch chroma (pitches contained in an octave). Edit: If you really want to get interesting, you can go into third tones, quarter tones, sixth tones, etc.

You could also think of it in terms of timbre, or the "quality" of the sound. For many people the bottom note on a piano will sound "dark" while the high notes are "bright." Same thing with instruments - the tuba (my instrument) is sometimes described as dark in comparison to the trumpet's bright sound.

Then you could follow Debussy's path and use chords and non-standard scales as your palette. That opens up the spectrum even further, as you get into augmented, diminished, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, whole tone scales and octatonic scales.

What I wanted to do was show that, say a TV, can show a masterpiece of artwork but it is only made up of RGB (and black, or abscence of color), and how with only a few notes (or keys, still confuzzled) you can make an infinite number of songs or musical pieces.

That's where I was headed, if that helps.

So then the best corollary is probably frequency. Frequency causes both pitch and timbre, which is most of what people mean when they say "musical color." But what about representing rhythm? After all, music is set apart from most other arts by its existence in time.

LOL, I wanted to show it in its simplicity. I understand its all about the timing, rhythm, etc. But it all starts with a few notes/keys, whatever, argh. All you did was help my explanation as to how infinite the possibilities are. I just want to know how many BASIC notes (or keys, still confuzzled) there are, and so far I count 7 major and 7 minor, for a total of 14. The rest is like colors, you have a few primaries and then hues, shades, mixes, you have millions of different possibilities.

Take this image: Linky

It shows how, with only three colors, you can make all those different colors and have an image. Just like if you look at an art masterpiece, they are only made up of a few paints mixed just right. (and you can view it on RGB)

Does that help in what I am looking for? I need the minimalistic answer to this question.

Okay, then to be as simplistic as possible:
A piano can play 88 different notes. Because the piano has been the standard tool of Western music for a few hundred years, the vast majority of Western music uses 88 or fewer different notes. How's that?

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
OK, so A-G major and minor, for 14 notes?

I am just trying to equate this to paints and the number of colors you get from the three primary colors, compared (or related) to music. I was hoping this would be easier to do, lol.

EDIT: I mean notes.

There are a theoretically an infinite number of notes, but in practice the piano's 88 notes will cover most of what you'll hear.

The correlation between color and sound is pretty complex and can go far beyond notes. The most basic connection might be to the 12 pitch chroma (pitches contained in an octave). Edit: If you really want to get interesting, you can go into third tones, quarter tones, sixth tones, etc.

You could also think of it in terms of timbre, or the "quality" of the sound. For many people the bottom note on a piano will sound "dark" while the high notes are "bright." Same thing with instruments - the tuba (my instrument) is sometimes described as dark in comparison to the trumpet's bright sound.

Then you could follow Debussy's path and use chords and non-standard scales as your palette. That opens up the spectrum even further, as you get into augmented, diminished, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, whole tone scales and octatonic scales.

What I wanted to do was show that, say a TV, can show a masterpiece of artwork but it is only made up of RGB (and black, or abscence of color), and how with only a few notes (or keys, still confuzzled) you can make an infinite number of songs or musical pieces.

That's where I was headed, if that helps.

So then the best corollary is probably frequency. Frequency causes both pitch and timbre, which is most of what people mean when they say "musical color." But what about representing rhythm? After all, music is set apart from most other arts by its existence in time.

LOL, I wanted to show it in its simplicity. I understand its all about the timing, rhythm, etc. But it all starts with a few notes/keys, whatever, argh. All you did was help my explanation as to how infinite the possibilities are. I just want to know how many BASIC notes (or keys, still confuzzled) there are, and so far I count 7 major and 7 minor, for a total of 14. The rest is like colors, you have a few primaries and then hues, shades, mixes, you have millions of different possibilities.

Take this image: Linky

It shows how, with only three colors, you can make all those different colors and have an image. Just like if you look at an art masterpiece, they are only made up of a few paints mixed just right. (and you can view it on RGB)

Does that help in what I am looking for? I need the minimalistic answer to this question.

Okay, then to be as simplistic as possible:
A piano can play 88 different notes. Because the piano has been the standard tool of Western music for a few hundred years, the vast majority of Western music uses 88 or fewer different notes. How's that?

How many notes are on a music scale? Maybe thats what I need.

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
OK, so A-G major and minor, for 14 notes?

I am just trying to equate this to paints and the number of colors you get from the three primary colors, compared (or related) to music. I was hoping this would be easier to do, lol.

EDIT: I mean notes.

There are a theoretically an infinite number of notes, but in practice the piano's 88 notes will cover most of what you'll hear.

The correlation between color and sound is pretty complex and can go far beyond notes. The most basic connection might be to the 12 pitch chroma (pitches contained in an octave). Edit: If you really want to get interesting, you can go into third tones, quarter tones, sixth tones, etc.

You could also think of it in terms of timbre, or the "quality" of the sound. For many people the bottom note on a piano will sound "dark" while the high notes are "bright." Same thing with instruments - the tuba (my instrument) is sometimes described as dark in comparison to the trumpet's bright sound.

Then you could follow Debussy's path and use chords and non-standard scales as your palette. That opens up the spectrum even further, as you get into augmented, diminished, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, whole tone scales and octatonic scales.

What I wanted to do was show that, say a TV, can show a masterpiece of artwork but it is only made up of RGB (and black, or abscence of color), and how with only a few notes (or keys, still confuzzled) you can make an infinite number of songs or musical pieces.

That's where I was headed, if that helps.

So then the best corollary is probably frequency. Frequency causes both pitch and timbre, which is most of what people mean when they say "musical color." But what about representing rhythm? After all, music is set apart from most other arts by its existence in time.

LOL, I wanted to show it in its simplicity. I understand its all about the timing, rhythm, etc. But it all starts with a few notes/keys, whatever, argh. All you did was help my explanation as to how infinite the possibilities are. I just want to know how many BASIC notes (or keys, still confuzzled) there are, and so far I count 7 major and 7 minor, for a total of 14. The rest is like colors, you have a few primaries and then hues, shades, mixes, you have millions of different possibilities.

Take this image: Linky

It shows how, with only three colors, you can make all those different colors and have an image. Just like if you look at an art masterpiece, they are only made up of a few paints mixed just right. (and you can view it on RGB)

Does that help in what I am looking for? I need the minimalistic answer to this question.

Okay, then to be as simplistic as possible:
A piano can play 88 different notes. Because the piano has been the standard tool of Western music for a few hundred years, the vast majority of Western music uses 88 or fewer different notes. How's that?

How many notes are on a music scale? Maybe thats what I need.

In a standard (Western) musical scale, there are 8 total notes, only 7 of which are unique. C Major is: C D E F G A B C. 7 unique pitches, but the C is repeated at the octave.

Each octave, though, has 12 unique pitches, the chromatic scale: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B.

 

[sumguy1]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: sumguy1

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Hmmm... maybe I am mixing notes with keys. How many strings does a guitar have, isn't that how many notes there are? Or is that a key?

Now I'm all confuzzled...

Your most common typical guitar has 6 strings. The notes of the strings when naturally tuned are (from fat string to skinny string) E A D G B E. The tones span 2 "octaves." There is some overlap in the actual notes that can be played on the different strings of a guitar. For example, if you press the 6th fret of the fat 1st E string, you are playing the same note as you'd be playing if you plucked the 2nd string without pressing any frets (A). The typical guitar has about 24 "frets" (those are the bumps on the neck of the guitar.) The lowest note on the guitar is sounded by plucking the fatest string while pressing no frets. The highest note on the guitar is sounded by plucking the skinniest string while holding it against the highest (24th counting from tuning knobs up the neck to the body of the guitar) fret. The total range of notes that can be played on the guitar described here is 4 octaves. An octive has 12 distinct tones or "notes." So 12 * 4 = 48 distinct notes that can be played on your typical 6 string guitar. It would appear to be more but don't forget to take into account that overlapping notes can be played on the different strings. Of those, 23 of them can be played only on the highest skinny string. That leaves 25 notes across the other 5 strings. 25 / 5 = 5 which, cooincidentally happens to be the number of fingers a normal person has on one hand.

Text

hehe next time you are at a party and somebody asks you why a guitar has 6 strings you can say "because your hand has 5 fingers" and then whip out this thread

EDIT: Somebody suggested earlier that you google the "wheel of fifths" which was a good suggestion. This is probably the closest most similar thing you could correlate to a color wheel.

 

[KC5AV]

A musical scale consists of 7 (8 if you consider that the top note repeats). Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So, La, Ti, Do.

If you're talking about how many combinations of major, minor, etc scales there are, that might require a little more digging. It's been several years since I looked at music theory.

 

[911paramedic]

OK, THIS says there are 12 notes. If I were to use that in an explanation (very basic one) would that be accurate enough?

This is simply for my artist statement for a benefit auction this weekend, I don't need to make it too complicated.

BTW, great answers and explanations so far, thanks a lot.

 

[SoulAssassin]

104

 

[KC5AV]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
OK, THIS says there are 12 notes. If I were to use that in an explanation (very basic one) would that be accurate enough?

This is simply for my artist statement for a benefit auction this weekend, I don't need to make it too complicated.

BTW, great answers and explanations so far, thanks a lot.

There are potentially 12 if you include sharps and flats that might occur in written music (they would be called accidentals). These are the same notes that would occur in a chromatic scale.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
OK, THIS says there are 12 notes. If I were to use that in an explanation (very basic one) would that be accurate enough?

This is simply for my artist statement for a benefit auction this weekend, I don't need to make it too complicated.

BTW, great answers and explanations so far, thanks a lot.

If you don't pick 42, you're DEAD to me!

 

[nanette1985]

No, you're missing a lot, unfortunately. Notes are vibrations. Vibrations have overtones - harmonics (look it up). It's the overtones that make different instruments sound different - and combinations of instruments have complementary or otherwise interesting combinations of overtones.

The scale as we know it - the major/minor scale - begins with a note. The first harmonic is an octave above it - marking the "top end" of the octave. As you go up in natural overtones, you get the 5th, the 3rd and so on.

Natural harmonics aren't exactly the scale we know - but we've trained our ears to use the system of breaking that octave into twelve equally-spaced notes. That is the white and black keys of the keyboard - the fingering in wind instruments - frets in strings - etc. Makes it easy for groups to play together!

However, it's a compromise.

The other thing to remember is that the music comes first, then comes notation. Notation is more of a guideline to what to play, than an exact recipe. When you talk about scales and notes, you're talking about notation - not about original music. Ask any musician about "bending" notes and so on.

If you want to simplify things and say that all music comes from the twelve tones on a keyboard, you can - but it's a metaphor, not a scientific fact.

Best of luck on your benefit auction!