My 4670k adventure begins....Gonna settle on 4.4ghz for now I guess

[Kenmitch]

My son wanted to build a gaming rig so I wound up selling him my 3470 rig to keep him within his budget....Didn't want him to go for a i3 or possibly the AMD way

My new rig:
Intel i5-4670k (Costa Rica)
Gigabyte Z87M-D3H
G-Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 (2x4GB)
Corsair Obsidian 350D
Corsair H100i
Roswill Capstone-450-M
His IceQ HD 7870
Samsung 830 128GB
Hitachi 1TB (Storage)

Wholly crap my uEFI needs a update as it's kind of wonky at times. Running with the launch version as the only other available is a beta....Might have to try it and see what gives.

After some initial trial and error I'm kinda getting the hang of it. The uEFI seems to have a mind of it's own at times and isn't cooperative 100% of the time.

I'm shooting for 4.5ghz I guess but may have to drop my goal down somewhat depending on temps. Damn stock fans on the H100i are load!

Initial result once I started to crank her up. Fans on the H100i locked at 1500rpm as it's about the loudest I want to go. Peaked at 90c during IBT runs.

Using a fixed vcore for now. The 1.25x strap works great on my motherboard once you figure out how to use it. Didn't have much luck with the 1.67x strap but didn't try it for long anyways.

What's the best way to test Haswell for stability? Only tried IBT so far as it's quick and dirty way to see and check temps under extreme conditions.

Updated my uEFI which seems to have cured most of the issues.

Think I'm just gonna stick with a safe low vcore, temp overclock for now. Not any tweaking other than setting the vcore to a fixed value was needed to achieve these results.



Temps running Intel Burn Test are in the low 80's on two cores. Running the LN2 geared Linpack 11 pushes the H100i to it's limit it looks like. One core did hit tjmax a couple of times, 1 other core came close to it a couple of times.

Figure everyday use the temps won't ever come close.

Guess I lost the thermal lotto on this chip

Thanks!

 

[adnank77]

For such a beautiful build, don't you think 8GB RAM is too little?

 

[ruhtraeel]

Wow, 90 degrees on an H100i. If this were Sandy Bridge, the same 4.5ghz OC would be around 50 degrees max.

 

[sm625]

Since when is wonkiness fixed by an update?

 

[CHADBOGA]

For such a beautiful build, don't you think 8GB RAM is too little?

This

 

[Kenmitch]

For such a beautiful build, don't you think 8GB RAM is too little?

Would be overkill for me currently.

Wow, 90 degrees on an H100i. If this were Sandy Bridge, the same 4.5ghz OC would be around 50 degrees max.

Yep. Maybe not 50c but a lot cooler. Temps might come down a little once TIM sets.

Since when is wonkiness fixed by an update?

The initial uEFI has more wonkiness than normal. Boots up in HD sometimes othertimes says not supported. Settings dont stick, mouse jumpy, etc. Kinda gotta reset defaults reboot then play around with settings to get results.

 

[Aikouka]

Since when is wonkiness fixed by an update?

My ASRock Z87 Extreme4 used to freeze almost every time you entered the BIOS, but it now works fine... I think. Wonkiness fixed.

 

[Kenmitch]

My ASRock Z87 Extreme4 used to freeze almost every time you entered the BIOS, but it now works fine... I think. Wonkiness fixed.

I updated my uEFI which looks to have fixed most of the issues I was experiencing. Brain farted when I checked the version on my motherboard. There was a newer one on Gigabytes website already. Tried the beta but it was xtra wonky on my rig for some reason.

Currently testing at 4.2ghz which seems stable so far. Temps peaked at 80c with IBT tho. The temps in the image are during AIDA 64 stress test.

 

[Sable]

For such a beautiful build, don't you think 8GB RAM is too little?

I've only got 8GB and can;t think of a single thing that would require me to buy another 8GB at the moment. It's not like the old days when going from 4MB to 8MB was like night and day.

 

[JimmiG]

Remember to run Aida64 with only FPU checked to stress-test the cooler. Intuitively, you would think checking both FPU and CPU would make the CPU run hotter, but that's certainly not the case.

As for RAM, unless you're doing heavy virtualization or similar, 8GB is more than enough. Most games today are written to work within 2GB of virtual address space in order to remain compatible with the huge installed base of 32-bit XP, Vista and even Win7.

 

[blackened23]

I've only got 8GB and can;t think of a single thing that would require me to buy another 8GB at the moment. It's not like the old days when going from 4MB to 8MB was like night and day.

Eh? 15 bucks. Might as well get 16GB, RAM is dirt cheap. One potential reason for 16GB:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-ram-endurance,3475.html

 

[cmdrdredd]

I can't find anymore of this Samsung 30nm DDR3 that I have or I'd have 16GB.

80c in IBT is expected. I see similar. Run Prime 95 for a while and see what it reports. Likely it'll be a good 5c cooler. Even then you wouldn't see those temps in day to day usage.

 

[Kenmitch]

Remember to run Aida64 with only FPU checked to stress-test the cooler. Intuitively, you would think checking both FPU and CPU would make the CPU run hotter, but that's certainly not the case.

As for RAM, unless you're doing heavy virtualization or similar, 8GB is more than enough. Most games today are written to work within 2GB of virtual address space in order to remain compatible with the huge installed base of 32-bit XP, Vista and even Win7.

During stress testing the temps get crazy even with the H100i. Might have to do with my case choice tho. The single 140mm intake in front I don't think is cutting it. I'm currently looking into replacement fans for the H100i as I don't like the sounds of the stock ones. Might be able to use them as intakes tho at lower speeds.

Eh? 15 bucks. Might as well get 16GB, RAM is dirt cheap. One potential reason for 16GB:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-ram-endurance,3475.html

Dirt cheap? Guess you live in gold country

Comparable ram going from 8gb to 16gb kit's is double the price. To me for my needs it wasn't worth the cost. Got my 8gb kit on sale for $63 at the time comparable 16gb kits were over double the price....Me doesn't do 4 sticks due to issues that tend to show up during overclocking, etc.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I've overclocked systems with all 4 banks filled, and did a 1366 build with all 6 filled and didn't have trouble getting stable. I just assumed things were worked out now and you didn't need to worry about how many banks were filled.

 

[Kenmitch]

I've overclocked systems with all 4 banks filled, and did a 1366 build with all 6 filled and didn't have trouble getting stable. I just assumed things were worked out now and you didn't need to worry about how many banks were filled.

I'm old school I guess. I tend to just get two sticks with the amount of ram I desire for the build. Looking at threads those running all banks full tend to have more stability issues. Of course it's gonna be hit and miss with ones motherboard and ram choices. It's just another Lotto or two a person must win to achieve there desired overclocking goal I guess.

My chip needs a delid job but I don't think I'm gonna risk it for a few hundred more mhz.

Trial and error overclock so far. I have zero issues cranking up the speed on my chip. I'm still trying to figure out how to crank up the uncore tho. Seems like when I use the 1.0x strap the uncore is locked at 3800mhz for some reason. If I use the 1.25x strap I have no issue upping the uncore to whatever I set in uEFI. Maybe my motherboard needs a uEFI update or I'm missing some setting?

Currently playing around at 4.5ghz again but using the 1.25x strap so I can play around with the uncore speed also. Only upped the uncore to 4ghz for now till I make sure it's stable still. Not sure what voltages I'd need to tweak to make it run 1:1 or if it's even possible with my chip.



Only been up to 4.6ghz with stability so far. Temps under stress testing get kinda nasty

 

[PPB]

Why the need to run Uncore 1:1 with core? Just up Uncore when you feel it's really bottlenecking your performance, otherwise, upping Uncore: more temps with negiglible more performance.

 

[Kenmitch]

Why the need to run Uncore 1:1 with core? Just up Uncore when you feel it's really bottlenecking your performance, otherwise, upping Uncore: more temps with negiglible more performance.

I doubt 1:1 will be needed but 4.5ghz core 3.8ghz uncore seems strange.

Testing at 4.5ghz/4.0ghz now. Only way I figure out how to do it so far on my motherboard is 1.25x strap which puts my memory out of spec. I either gotta run it slower or overclock it. Bumped it up to 2000mhz with looser timings which seem to be working so far.

If I keep it at 4.5ghz I'd like the uncore to be around 4.2ghz I guess.

Stress tesing with AIDA currently max core temp 73c so far with a average package temp of 64.5c. Would be doable 24/7 I'd think as real world temps will never be close during my uses.

I shut down AIDA stess testing at about the 1hr 15min mark. Figured if it didn't bsod by now it won't and would be ready for real world testing anyways. After all it's the real world testing that matters the most.

Trial and error makes it somewhat challenging I guess.

My day off today so decided to save the profile and move up a notch.

Currently testing at 4.65ghz running uncore at 4ghz with memory running at 2000mhz. Testing with a 1.270v vcore currently.

I'm starting to think I got to play around with other than the vcore voltage. Yep it seems like it's the case. Tried upping the vcore but doesn't seem to be the issue. Guess I'll know in a little while longer.....Hmm

Guess I had to up the vRing as suggested in Haswell overclocking guides. Seems 1.150 is suggested but only bumped it up to 1.125 but wound up getting a bsod about an hr into AIDA stress test....Stress testing is a waste of electricity at times!

Corsair H100i on performance mode is noisy to say the least but is managing to keep the temps below 80c so far. Max package temp 78c. Only into AIDA stress test for 40 minutes so far but sure beats the bsods I was getting at 5 minutes.

 

[ehume]

The reason updating your BIOS to make problems go away is that the Gigabyte BIOS is immature. My GA-Z87X-UD4H shipped with an F3 BIOS. Many issues. Far better at F5, and I'm waiting for F6 to come out of beta. I here good things about the recent F6 betas.

LinX 0.6.4 ships with a Linpack pre-10 version. There are some builds with Linpack 10 floating around. That seems to have AVX on it. It makes the cpu run much hotter than plain LinX.

But Linpack 11 has AVX2. LinX will run one rep, then you get an error message. But if you disable HT and run Linpack 11 from its batch file, you will get a wild Gflops score, and a very hot cpu.

That is why I backed my 4770k down to 4.3GHz. It was stable at 4.7GHz, but that was with the original LinX 0.6.4 and AIDA64, etc, but Linpack throttles at 4.7GHz, and the Vcore I needed to get it there. I figure the last 400MHz s not worth it.

In essence, if you use the AVX2 codes to test with, you will be heat-limited, not stability-limited. Personally, I've had my rig up to 5.0GHz, just briefly, so I'm satisfied.

 

[blackened23]

I don't think there's a way to prevent temperatures from going nuts with stress testing and high (1.25V+) voltages. Some have stated that manual voltage prevents the +.1V, but that isn't the case with a lot of boards....ideally that would work, but Haswell's iVR has a mind of it's own.

I have mixed feelings on the entire stress test thing with Haswell. It's entirely possible to have a completely stable system with all of your applications, while prime95 will have insane (90C or so) temperatures. I really don't understand why AVX causes the iVR to overshoot the voltage, is there a technical explanation for that?

Anyway, 4.5 on a Haswell is pretty darn good - should be equal to a 4.9ghz IVB (obviously most IVB's can't reach that high, at least mine can't)

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Eh? 15 bucks. Might as well get 16GB, RAM is dirt cheap.

Haven't been checking RAM prices lately eh?

 

[Kenmitch]

In essence, if you use the AVX2 codes to test with, you will be heat-limited, not stability-limited. Personally, I've had my rig up to 5.0GHz, just briefly, so I'm satisfied

My motherboard did get the F6 uEFI update. It helped but don't think it's perfected yet. Tried the current beta but either I had a bad flash or it's f'd up.

The following results are with the H100i fans locked at 1350rpm.

I reset my rig to all stock settings and tested it with Linpack 11 as you suggested. It did finish the test and didn't throttle....But the temps did hover around 100c on a core or two. I don't see how intel plans on using the AVX2 extensions at all if this is the way it's gonna work. Pitty the fools with the stock heatsink. That xtra .1v's that kicks in is the killer I think.

I'm looking at Linpack 11 as a LN2 sport currently.

Going to try it with a fixed vcore and see how it responds.

My 4.2ghz profile with the vcore locked at 1.173v's. No other voltages tweaked.

Performance Summary (GFlops)
Size LDA Align. Average Maximal
1000 1000 4 121.0076 126.3980
2000 2000 4 133.2985 134.1802
3000 3000 4 147.3949 149.3161
4000 4000 4 161.0403 161.4386
5000 5000 4 169.9271 170.4179
10000 10000 4 194.7773 194.8153
15000 15000 4 203.8188 203.8655
20000 20000 4 213.0128 213.0262
25000 25000 4 212.6363 212.7025
30000 30000 4 217.4731 217.4731

Hottest core hit 98c a couple of times.

My 4.2ghz profile pretty much feeds the chip the same vcore as it gets with the stock settings....Minus the xtra .1v's auto vcore gives it at times.

Tried a second time with my 4.4ghz profile. I have the vcore locked at 1.198v's.

Performance Summary (GFlops)
Size LDA Align. Average Maximal
1000 1000 4 110.5041 129.2243
2000 2000 4 134.4332 136.8609
3000 3000 4 143.3513 151.5262
4000 4000 4 165.8586 167.0480
5000 5000 4 174.4301 175.2604
10000 10000 4 200.6463 200.8733
15000 15000 4 210.9903 211.0676
20000 20000 4 220.8280 221.1093
25000 25000 4 221.1215 221.1513
30000 30000 4 225.3157 225.3157

Temps maxed out at the following using realtemp 98c 105c 103c 96c. The 105c was hit two or three times it looks like. That very last run is the one that'll kill overclocks, temps it looks like as it's a 1 minute plus severe load it looks like.

To me it looks like Linpack 11 is more of a cooler torture test than a stability test.

I used AIDA 64 stress test to tweak my vcore settings. Running it about 1.5hrs or so once I thought it was stable. I had to do no additional tweaking for the above two results to complete without errors.

I don't think there's a way to prevent temperatures from going nuts with stress testing and high (1.25V+) voltages. Some have stated that manual voltage prevents the +.1V, but that isn't the case with a lot of boards....ideally that would work, but Haswell's iVR has a mind of it's own.

I have mixed feelings on the entire stress test thing with Haswell. It's entirely possible to have a completely stable system with all of your applications, while prime95 will have insane (90C or so) temperatures. I really don't understand why AVX causes the iVR to overshoot the voltage, is there a technical explanation for that?

Anyway, 4.5 on a Haswell is pretty darn good - should be equal to a 4.9ghz IVB (obviously most IVB's can't reach that high, at least mine can't)

When I use a fixed voltage value the xtra .1v doesn't happen at all.

I'm still testing my chip but 1.227v's gets me 4.5ghz it looks like. Gotta play around some more to verify stability still. Think I gotta tweak other than the vcore voltage to make sure.

My normal uses I have no issues so far.

 

[Ed1]

So have you tested if 1.25x strap give performance increase with same clocks and same ram OC ?

I haven't seen any reviewers mentioning advantages other than its a feature .
Maybe more time is needed to test things out .

 

[SPBHM]

For such a beautiful build, don't you think 8GB RAM is too little?

more ram would give him a nice 0% improvement most of the time...
better overclock the CPU another 100MHz or something.

 

[Kenmitch]

So have you tested if 1.25x strap give performance increase with same clocks and same ram OC ?

I haven't seen any reviewers mentioning advantages other than its a feature .
Maybe more time is needed to test things out .

I'll try to test if I can make it a fair comparison.

1st issue is going to be memory speed. Will see how close I can get it both ways.

2nd issue is uncore speed. I can't figure out how to overclock it with my motherboard yet as settings dont stick. I don't have this issue when using the 1.25x strap tho.

If I can get it close enough to compare I will.

Any suggestions on what benchmarks to use?

 

[Ed1]

I'll try to test if I can make it a fair comparison.

1st issue is going to be memory speed. Will see how close I can get it both ways.

2nd issue is uncore speed. I can't figure out how to overclock it with my motherboard yet as settings dont stick. I don't have this issue when using the 1.25x strap tho.

If I can get it close enough to compare I will.

Any suggestions on what benchmarks to use?

I guess any of popular CPU benches , Cinebench , PCmark ,Super-Pi etc .
I don't think gaming ones would show it but i guess that depends on which one and res run , along with how good your vid is .