My brother caught his wife! Update...

[Isla]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
This was wrong, plain and simple. it was a morally repugnant gesture on her part and any statement like "we aren't having body contact so it's not a problem" just is so outrageously ignorant,I can't see any hope for trust in this relationship ever again. A marriage without trust is just shacking up. That act she performed in front of a webcam------do you think it would be acceptable in heaven? If it isn't, I would submit this marriage should end, because it is no longer bound by heavenly law. Does anyone ever remember "Love, Honor, and Obey--until death do you part" in their marriage vows?How could this escape this women? It doesn't matter what her motives are, what drove her to do it,or anything. It is obvious the husband is upset and this behavior was not mutually acceptable in the marriage. It was done in secret. When men and women keep secrets of this magnitude, then the marriage is in deep, deep trouble. What tells me this? I have been around a long time, and grew up in the "free love" generation. That was a freaking myth, folks. A price will always be paid for deviant behaviour in a marrage. The price for this should be D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Sad. I feel sorry for both of them, and worse for his brother and best friend. Now they are burdoned with this knowledge and must act accordingly. The rest of us here won't have to deal with it at all. It will be a post in a thread and forgoten in a few hours or days. Sure does make you re-assess your values though, huh? Unless you are satisfied with your values already. Amish is his and so is Isla. That is fine. As long as there is no mystery with the spouses and there is mutual trust and honor and love, IMHO.

I agree that this was wrong, but I could not say there SHOULD be a divorce How can someone mandate an end to a relationship who is not in it? Also, you refer to a heavenly relationship. There is also the concept of repentence and forgiveness. If they should opt for reconciliation and make a genuine effort, who are we to say they cannot or should not try? God forbid that I should ever get what I deserve. I have screwed up many things over my lifetime, but when I was given a chance to make amends, I was glad for the opportunity, and the people who gave me a second chance were not disappointed.

Amen, Hayabusarider.

I've never said what she did was OK... I just remember a little verse about 'he who is without sin shall cast the first stone' and that is why I think the view that compassion rather than judgement is in order. I was alluding to what many guys do (porn, strip clubs) as being the same thing (cheating) to many people, and that unless you are totally pure of heart (who here is?) it's better not to get on any high horses. We all make mistakes and we all need to be forgiven.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Isla
What's the difference between her doing that and married guys looking at porn? Or married guys going to strip clubs?

If he doesn't look at porn or go to strip clubs, then he has a right to be upset. But if he gets his jollies checking out other nekkid chicks...

In all due respect, I think this is a little bit different. Looking at porn is a static, non-living object. Sure looking at it and getting your jollies off when you are in a relation ship is unhealthy, but it's QUITE different from participating in mutual masterbation with another living human being over a web cam.

I think there is a distinct difference.

I'm sorry, Vi, but that is the most insane thing I've ever heard....

1) Porn is static...

Not at a strip club or on video.

2) masturbation when you're in a relationship is unhealthy...

Maturbation is almost always a perfectly healthy form of sexual release. I've been married for 10 years now and NEVER would have made it w/o some personal lovin'.

amish

And would you have minded if your wife send videos of her masturbating allover the internet? Knowing she was masturbating to another guy?

 

[Isla]

Maybe I should clarify here.

A long time ago, my husband wouldn't come to bed with me. He would stay up until I fell asleep and then whack off to porn on the Internet. And sex betwen us was HIDEOUS. He wanted his penis to be a magic wand and for me to be under his amazing spell, swooning over the sheer gloriousness of his mightiness. Right.

So, I tolerated it (not much else I could do unless I wanted to get into a huge fight, and I was too beaten down already) and I bought myself a vibrator (a non phallic looking one... it's a 'massager'.)

I didn't feel any need to hide it so I left it around. And one day, he confronted me. Called me all kinds of horrible things and BROKE the massager over his leg. Plastic went flying everywhere. I thought he was going to hit me (it wouldn't have been the first time.).

So I said,

"That's nice. I can't break your hand, now can I?" For the rest of my life I will wish that I had a camera to catch the expression on his face. He went from bloody rage to shame in a heartbeat.

The point is, he thought I was being a slut and unforgivable by simply masturbating... when the TRUTH is, he was masturbating to porn! And making my life miserable by insisting I should have orgasms by penile penetration alone!

What he was attacking in ME was his own hatred of himself.

Ever since then, I am very sensitive to the fact that people will often condemn other who are 'guilty' of the same things they feel quilty for themselves.... and that includes me.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Isla
Maybe I should clarify here.

A long time ago, my husband wouldn't come to bed with me. He would stay up until I fell asleep and then whack off to porn on the Internet. And sex betwen us was HIDEOUS. He wanted his penis to be a magic wand and for me to be under his amazing spell, swooning over the sheer gloriousness of his mightiness. Right.

So, I tolerated it (not much else I could do unless I wanted to get into a huge fight, and I was too beaten down already) and I bought myself a vibrator (a non phallic looking one... it's a 'massager'.)

I didn't feel any need to hide it so I left it around. And one day, he confronted me. Called me all kinds of horrible things and BROKE the massager over his leg. Plastic went flying everywhere. I thought he was going to hit me (it wouldn't have been the first time.).

So I said,

"That's nice. I can't break your hand, now can I?" For the rest of my life I will wish that I had a camera to catch the expression on his face. He went from bloody rage to shame in a heartbeat.

The point is, he thought I was being a slut and unforgivable by simply masturbating... when the TRUTH is, he was masturbating to porn! And making my life miserable by insisting I should have orgasms by penile penetration alone!

What he was attacking in ME was his own hatred of himself.

Ever since then, I am very sensitive to the fact that people will often condemn other who are 'guilty' of the same things they feel quilty for themselves.... and that includes me.

Whoa Isla, that's some heavy duty stuff you are sharing.I do hope that some of the little idiots here don't repay your openess and efforts to educate them with the crude remarks and hostility that we've seen around here in the past!

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Isla
Maybe I should clarify here.

A long time ago, my husband wouldn't come to bed with me. He would stay up until I fell asleep and then whack off to porn on the Internet. And sex betwen us was HIDEOUS. He wanted his penis to be a magic wand and for me to be under his amazing spell, swooning over the sheer gloriousness of his mightiness. Right.

So, I tolerated it (not much else I could do unless I wanted to get into a huge fight, and I was too beaten down already) and I bought myself a vibrator (a non phallic looking one... it's a 'massager'.)

I didn't feel any need to hide it so I left it around. And one day, he confronted me. Called me all kinds of horrible things and BROKE the massager over his leg. Plastic went flying everywhere. I thought he was going to hit me (it wouldn't have been the first time.).

So I said,

"That's nice. I can't break your hand, now can I?" For the rest of my life I will wish that I had a camera to catch the expression on his face. He went from bloody rage to shame in a heartbeat.

The point is, he thought I was being a slut and unforgivable by simply masturbating... when the TRUTH is, he was masturbating to porn! And making my life miserable by insisting I should have orgasms by penile penetration alone!

What he was attacking in ME was his own hatred of himself.

Ever since then, I am very sensitive to the fact that people will often condemn other who are 'guilty' of the same things they feel quilty for themselves.... and that includes me.

Whoa Isla, that's some heavy duty stuff you are sharing.I do hope that some of the little idiots here don't repay your openess and efforts to educate them with the crude remarks and hostility that we've seen around here in the past!

That's ok. There isn't a thing that any of them can say that could hurt me.

If just one person gets what I am trying to say, it will be worth it.

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Whoa Isla, that's some heavy duty stuff you are sharing.I do hope that some of the little idiots here don't repay your openess and efforts to educate them with the crude remarks and hostility that we've seen around here in the past!

She's posted that before, I'm surprised you haven't read it...

In any case, if anyone gives her crap, they'll have to deal with you, me, and about a thousand other inteligent wise people who will kick their butts!

Isla, all I can say is, you poor thing... *hug* I know you're better now, but that must have been miserable, stupid men.

Grasshopper

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Isla

That's ok. There isn't a thing that any of them can say that could hurt me.

If just one person gets what I am trying to say, it will be worth it.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I'd equal looking at porn to fantasizing in general, while baring it all for someone else to masturbate to is something quite different in my opinion.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Isla

That's ok. There isn't a thing that any of them can say that could hurt me.

If just one person gets what I am trying to say, it will be worth it.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I'd equal looking at porn to fantasizing in general, while baring it all for someone else to masturbate to is something quite different in my opinion.

I would agree with you on that point.Also, women tend to be a bit different than guys,chances are pretty good if she went to the trouble of hooking up a web cam and all that this was some sort of ongoing relationship and not just some random thing,if that's the case chances are pretty good she's already emotionally checked out of the marriage.She and her hubby have a lot to discuss in any case.

 

[CPUtrader]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Maturbation is almost always a perfectly healthy form of sexual release. I've been married for 10 years now and NEVER would have made it w/o some personal lovin'.

Damn straight! Masturbation is nevery "unhealthy". You tell them!

CPUtrader

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Isla

That's ok. There isn't a thing that any of them can say that could hurt me.

If just one person gets what I am trying to say, it will be worth it.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I'd equal looking at porn to fantasizing in general, while baring it all for someone else to masturbate to is something quite different in my opinion.

I would agree with you on that point.Also, women tend to be a bit different than guys,chances are pretty good if she went to the trouble of hooking up a web cam and all that this was some sort of ongoing relationship and not just some random thing,if that's the case chances are pretty good she's already emotionally checked out of the marriage.She and her hubby have a lot to discuss in any case.

Which brings up the question - did they even have a webcam before?
If so, did they use it to talk to family, or just for casual chat?
Or was this something she bought specifically for the purpose of "camming"?
IMO, pull the chatlogs to see how deep this goes.
An instance of "hey, we've both got webcams" while just as bad, is a little less perverse than "go out and buy a webcam and we'll have Cy83r $3cHs"

- M4H

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: CPUtrader

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Maturbation is almost always a perfectly healthy form of sexual release. I've been married for 10 years now and NEVER would have made it w/o some personal lovin'.

Damn straight! Masturbation is nevery "unhealthy". You tell them!

CPUtrader

What you guys said...

 

[virtuamike]

I wouldn't have a prob with my wife masturbating. But rest assured if someone guy was watching her I'd gouge his eyes out with a spoon. Besides if she resorts to camming that means something is lacking at home, spice it up some. Can't let sex become routine.

 

[Yeeny]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Isla

That's ok. There isn't a thing that any of them can say that could hurt me.

If just one person gets what I am trying to say, it will be worth it.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I'd equal looking at porn to fantasizing in general, while baring it all for someone else to masturbate to is something quite different in my opinion.

Why? Both are being disloyal sexually, if you are wanking it to a strange woman instead of going to bed with your wife, its really the same thing to me. Don't get me wrong, I think that woman was totally wrong to do what she did. But I also think men who sit up and would rather look at porn instead of being with the women they love are not being loyal either. Looking at it together, or when your wife is out of town, or not around is one thing. But when she is there, and you could be with her but instead choose a magazine, then that is just as bad, whether its an image, or a movie, or a webcam, the disloyalty is there in their heart.

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: GirlFriday

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Isla

That's ok. There isn't a thing that any of them can say that could hurt me.

If just one person gets what I am trying to say, it will be worth it.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I'd equal looking at porn to fantasizing in general, while baring it all for someone else to masturbate to is something quite different in my opinion.

Why? Both are being disloyal sexually, if you are wanking it to a strange woman instead of going to bed with your wife, its really the same thing to me. Don't get me wrong, I think that woman was totally wrong to do what she did. But I also think men who sit up and would rather look at porn instead of being with the women they love are not being loyal either. Looking at it together, or when your wife is out of town, or not around is one thing. But when she is there, and you could be with her but instead choose a magazine, then that is just as bad, whether its an image, or a movie, or a webcam, the disloyalty is there in their heart.

What about the times when both parties are present, but one is in the mood and one isn't??

amish

 

[Yeeny]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: GirlFriday

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Isla

That's ok. There isn't a thing that any of them can say that could hurt me.

If just one person gets what I am trying to say, it will be worth it.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I'd equal looking at porn to fantasizing in general, while baring it all for someone else to masturbate to is something quite different in my opinion.

Why? Both are being disloyal sexually, if you are wanking it to a strange woman instead of going to bed with your wife, its really the same thing to me. Don't get me wrong, I think that woman was totally wrong to do what she did. But I also think men who sit up and would rather look at porn instead of being with the women they love are not being loyal either. Looking at it together, or when your wife is out of town, or not around is one thing. But when she is there, and you could be with her but instead choose a magazine, then that is just as bad, whether its an image, or a movie, or a webcam, the disloyalty is there in their heart.

What about the times when both parties are present, but one is in the mood and one isn't??

amish

Then you couldn't be there with her/him, if they reject you, so it would be a different scenario I guess? I dunno, I just don't like the double standards being thrown around here, that its not ok for one party, but it is for another because they have a penis.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Kiyup
He got out of work early last week and she was camming. She said it's not cheating and that she'd never go meet someone for real.
He asked me and other people for their opinions and if he should forgive her.
I won't look at her the same that's for sure.

Her response sounds like something Clinton would say....Therefore, he should have her begging for forgiveness everday for the rest of their marriage.

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: GirlFriday
Then you couldn't be there with her/him, if they reject you, so it would be a different scenario I guess? I dunno, I just don't like the double standards being thrown around here, that its not ok for one party, but it is for another because they have a penis.

What double standard? If I'm not in the mood and she is, and we're here together and all I want to do is sleep or watch a movie and she wants some loving, I don't mind if she spends some quality personal time with herself. She asked, I said no, what's the big deal?

If she's happy, that makes me happy...

Grasshopper

 

[SCSIfreek]

this is called cyber cheating. although she didn't do it in real person <---the intent was there. I would hate to say it but the relationship will never be the same again. let alone, the husband will forgive his wife. He'll always have that sense of his wife going out and banging some guy on the internet(for sexual pleasure=no love involved). If I caught my wife, first thing would be to kick her a$$ outta house and see her in the lawyer's office for a divorce. Although, If she was looking at playgirl or just some none interactive porno then I'll just laff it off. This isn't the same :|

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish


You can interact at strip clubs...

amish

Not in Utah The Bush just doesn't quite cut it.

 

[eakers]

i would say her actions show a disrespect for her husband.

she knew it would hurt him and she did it anyways.

you can argue til you are blue in the face about if its cheating or whatever but it was disrespectful.

for most men (and women) going to strip clubs is different, thats a social thing, they get together, have drinks and watch girls get naked. now you could argue the men that go in the back room for private dances its more than that and yah it prolley is ... but this situation is very different from watching some chick get naked for money.

 

[newbiepcuser]

Just read the update. Sorry to hear things were that bad. I wish your brother luck. A seperation is good idea at this time.

 

"Had a long talk going out to an early breakfast. I've never seen him so upset. He did some snooping around, and found real written letters and from several guys, oh jeez. It seems that a place called paltalk.com is where she has been meeting these men for almost a year, from what he can trace in the letters. A lot of you were right, there hasn't been much going on in the marriage for quite some time. My brother also confided that even with the trouble, he hasn't cheated yet but may have soon. He's going to leave her for definitely sure. My parents will be upset. Oh, and they didn't have children."

Yep, she does sound like a slut. At the same time, I think your brother was lacking in affections. But that isn't the source of her sluttiness. It's time for him to end it before any kids come into the pic.

Your brother is so childish for thinking it gives him the moral licence to cheat. If the contract's been breached by his so-called wife he should end it officially, not start to get even with her by cheating too.

What a childish mentality!!! Next thing you know we'll hear of a baby from a one night stand. :disgust:

"I've said it before, I'm never getting married."

Yep, I figured that's why you felt this way. Oh well! You'll probably some day find a good, decent lady who'll tempt you to say "I do".

 

[Storm]

Originally posted by: Kiyup


Update

Had a long talk going out to an early breakfast. I've never seen him so upset. He did some snooping around, and found real written letters and from several guys, oh jeez. It seems that a place called paltalk.com is where she has been meeting these men for almost a year, from what he can trace in the letters. A lot of you were right, there hasn't been much going on in the marriage for quite some time. My brother also confided that even with the trouble, he hasn't cheated yet but may have soon. He's going to leave her for definitely sure. My parents will be upset. Oh, and they didn't have children.

I've said it before, I'm never getting married. :|

Sorry to hear that.... So she receives real hand writtren letters from the men she meets online through paltalk.com... and then masterbates with them over the webcam... Now I wonder if she has actually met
any of these guys if they are close to her? Kiyup I think your bro needs to take the high road and divorce her before he starts dating again. Why stoop to her level?

Btw Isla, man your husband got so 0wned. I hope everythings better since then.

 

[Isla]

Sorry to hear it.

I hope that they BOTH consider getting some help before entering new relationships in the future. People tend to make the same mistakes over and over again until they finally deal with their own issues. Oh, you find someone else and think, "This is going to be different!" but it WON'T be different until YOU are.

<--been there, done that, never going back again

 

[Isla]

Storm, we are working on it. It's been a long hard road, but we've made progress.

Here's the thing:

Know yourself before you get married. This is easier said than done! And then, take a loooooong time to get to know your partner before making a committment.

I would say my relationship problems have a lot to do with how young I hitched up and how short my engagement was. I didn't know what I was getting into!

You Live, You Learn (Alanis Morrisette)