My car is officially broken

[ShawnD1]

I would have preferred it throwing a rod, but that's not going to happen on a Corolla. I guess we'll have to do with a busted transmission. <sigh>

I'm surprised the engine has lasted this long since the transmission is all too eager to redline the engine every single day. That manual Civic I had before this never once hit redline.

 

[KDKPSJ]

So..! Millions of Corollas out there driven by idiots who don't know how to drive automatic transmission properly and let computer do all the gear shifting (or "hunting" according to fleabag2) rarely have transmission failure in 10 years, but one Corolla driven by genius who knows how to drive properly with automatic transmission has transmission failure in 19 months, huh?

Sounds interesting and reasonable, right?

 

[alfa147x]

Newsletter sign up?

 

[Demo24]

I'm surprised the engine has lasted this long since the transmission is all too eager to redline the engine every single day. That manual Civic I had before this never once hit redline.

dude, seriously? Redline is not going to blow up your engine. Good to rev it up on occasion to burn some carbon off. I don't recommend sitting at 6k for an hr, but reving it generally won't kill it. No idea what your obsession with driving around in super low revs, you should get a diesel if you want to do that. Dragging your acceleration out in the lower bands isn't going to make it more efficient. Better to just get yourself up to speed at a reasonable pace and then stay there.

 

[mb]

what? I can't hear you over the sound of the transmission changing gears!

Anyway, I'll keep you guys up to date on what's wrong with it. Then in the future you can remember this when your wife says "let's get the Accord V6 with an automatic" and you'll say "NOOOOOOOOO"

lol, compared to your pos Crayolla, my V6 Accord: is larger and heavier, yet more powerful, quicker, gets better MPG, and has a smooth, silent auto transmission that has taken nearly 40k of aggressive driving like a champ.

You really are fleabag2.

 

[ShawnD1]

So..! Millions of Corollas out there driven by idiots who don't know how to drive automatic transmission properly and let computer do all the gear shifting (or "hunting" according to fleabag2) rarely have transmission failure in 10 years, but one Corolla driven by genius who knows how to drive properly with automatic transmission has transmission failure in 19 months, huh?

Sounds interesting and reasonable, right?

Absolutely. Even the US government agrees that automatic transmissions generate fuckloads of heat and are going to burn the oil just by using the car as a daily driver. Forget my autotragic corolla and look at my old 1992 Ford Tempo:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=1992&make=Ford&model=Tempo&hiddenField=Findacar
18mpg automatic vs 21mpg manual. Where do you think that extra fuel goes? It's heat in the transmission. Forget about how hot your exhaust system is, consider how hot the transmission is when 14% of the energy (3mpg out of 21) heats the transmission. That is why the ATF turns into black tar and that's why I had to sell my Tempo after 1 year of owning it.

The Crayola is the same story. Right in the first post of this thread I said it was burning 9.6L/100km in combination city/highway driving. When I first got it, it would burn about 7.6L/100km. Where is that extra 26% fuel consumption going? Heat into the transmission. It's a million degree blast furnace inside that transmission. No wonder the thing is fucking up. That's the energy equivalent of holding a blow torch to the transmission.


For comparison sake, my manual transmission Honda Civic had the same 7.6L/100km city gas mileage for the entire time I drove it, which was 3 years. The only reason I no longer have that car is because some kid t-boned it. After 50,000 miles (80,000km) it still had the original brake pads too. Honda = good. Toyota = proof that 2 atomic bombs was not enough.

 

[Demo24]

Absolutely. Even the US government agrees that automatic transmissions generate fuckloads of heat and are going to burn the oil just by using the car as a daily driver. Forget my autotragic corolla and look at my old 1992 Ford Tempo:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=1992&make=Ford&model=Tempo&hiddenField=Findacar
18mpg automatic vs 21mpg manual. Where do you think that extra fuel goes? It's heat in the transmission. Forget about how hot your exhaust system is, consider how hot the transmission is when 14&#37; of the energy (3mpg out of 21) heats the transmission. That is why the ATF turns into black tar and that's why I had to sell my Tempo after 1 year of owning it.

The Crayola is the same story. Right in the first post of this thread I said it was burning 9.6L/100km in combination city/highway driving. When I first got it, it would burn about 7.6L/100km. Where is that extra 26% fuel consumption going? Heat into the transmission. It's a million degree blast furnace inside that transmission. No wonder the thing is fucking up. That's the energy equivalent of holding a blow torch to the transmission.


For comparison sake, my manual transmission Honda Civic had the same 7.6L/100km city gas mileage for the entire time I drove it, which was 3 years. The only reason I no longer have that car is because some kid t-boned it. After 50,000 miles (80,000km) it still had the original brake pads too. Honda = good. Toyota = proof that 2 atomic bombs was not enough.

Quoted, just because.



And that loss has very little (if anything) to do with heat, and everything to do with energy transfer slippage due to fluid dynamics. Very few cars these days show significant drops in fuel economy when going with the automatic. In Hondas case the manuals can actually have WORSE highway due to stupidly high gearing so they can pass without downshifting on the highway.


edit: you should probably take the hundreds of pounds of crap out of the trunk and watch those mpgs come back.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I called it. Fleabag2, CONFIRMED.

 

[ShawnD1]

And that loss has very little (if anything) to do with heat, and everything to do with energy transfer slippage due to fluid dynamics.

Slipping is what causes the heat. Automatics involve a lot of slipping, so they generally have enormous coolers on them. If you get a minivan or a truck with an automatic transmission, you also need to buy the "towing package" to prevent the transmission fluid from burning. Here's a little blip about it:

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2024905

What is a towing package on a Toyota?

Towing packages for Toyotas do more than just let the vehicles tow a trailer--they let the vehicles better cope with the stresses of pulling heavy loads. The specific components of a Toyota towing package depend on the vehicle, but many Toyota towing packages contain similar components.

Transmission Cooler
Towing heavy loads stresses all mechanical components of a vehicle, including the transmission. These increased stresses can heat the transmission fluid, which can lead to complete transmission failure. Some Toyota towing packages include transmission coolers, which help keep transmission fluid at its optimal operating temperature while under load, extending the life of the Toyota's transmission.

Very few cars these days show significant drops in fuel economy when going with the automatic. In Hondas case the manuals can actually have WORSE highway due to stupidly high gearing so they can pass without downshifting on the highway.

Fuel economy doesn't tell you the whole story. Manuals for most people get fairly good gas mileage but not great because people (the AT garage) love to run the engine at super high rpm all the time and refuse to upshift. In another thread I said I drove my manual Honda Civic in top gear at 40mph. To the AT Garage, doing this was just blasphemy; how dare I run the engine below 2000rpm. To car enthusiasts around here, it's fully expected that people run the engine at a minimum of 3000 or 4000rpm when it has a manual transmission and that high rpm is why the gas mileage is terrible. In a manual driven by someone from AT Garage, the excess heat is in the engine.

Automatics are the opposite. Automatics will go into the top gear at the earliest time possible then shift out as needed. If I'm going 40mph in my Corolla, it's already in top gear and it's running the engine lower than 1500rpm. During that time, the engine is nice and efficient and the torque converter is locked so cruising is very efficient in an automatic. Where the automatic really suffers is during acceleration. The torque converter is not locked during acceleration, so all of that extra fuel is being used to heat the transmission rather than the engine.

In the end, both are using the same amount of fuel. The manual has a hot engine because people are running it in third gear instead of fifth gear and the engine is always up around 3000rpm. The automatic has a cold engine because it always ends up crusing at 1500rpm but the transmission is hot because it's slipping during acceleration.

edit: you should probably take the hundreds of pounds of crap out of the trunk and watch those mpgs come back.

Surprisingly that weight in the trunk has almost no effect on gas mileage. The Civic didn't take a hit either. Of course that should be expected since a Corolla and a Camry get almost the same highway mileage despite one weighing 500 pounds more than the other in addition to having ~40&#37; more horsepower.

 

[coxmaster]

When left up to the automatic transmission, it shifts gears around 20 times per minute.

Your transmission has been shifting 3 seconds? Really?

 

[ShawnD1]

Your transmission has been shifting 3 seconds? Really?

Yep. The Ford Tempo did that as well. Everyone I knew said that's just the way automatics drive.

The only automatics I know of that don't drive like that are my parents boat cars from the 80s. They had V8 engines with no power but ungodly amounts of torque.

 

[DivideBYZero]

...<snip> The torque converter is not locked during acceleration, so all of that extra fuel is being used to heat the transmission rather than the engine.

In the end, both are using the same amount of fuel. The manual has a hot engine because people are running it in third gear instead of fifth gear and the engine is always up around 3000rpm. The automatic has a cold engine because it always ends up crusing at 1500rpm but the transmission is hot because it's slipping during acceleration.



Surprisingly that weight in the trunk has almost no effect on gas mileage. The Civic didn't take a hit either. Of course that should be expected since a Corolla and a Camry get almost the same highway mileage despite one weighing 500 pounds more than the other in addition to having ~40% more horsepower.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Make it stop!!!!

 

[coxmaster]

Yep. The Ford Tempo did that as well. Everyone I knew said that's just the way automatics drive.

The only automatics I know of that don't drive like that are my parents boat cars from the 80s. They had V8 engines with no power but ungodly amounts of torque.

My old car (98 malibu) didn't have that problem.. neither does my brothers car, parents cars, or my current car.

Oddly i've actually never had that problem with any automatic. Perhaps the problem is the driver :thumbsup:

 

[ShawnD1]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Make it stop!!!!

Toyota: making it stop because the piece of shit automatic transmission doesn't work

about the weight thing:
Toyota Camry - 33mpg highway - 3263 pound car
Toyota Corolla - 35mpg highway - 2734 pound car

Oh noes!!! Adding 500 pounds of weight to the car drops the gas mileage by almost 6%!!! Shit! (35-33)/35 * 100 = 5.7%

 

[Demo24]

I called it. Fleabag2, CONFIRMED.

Good call. This all started out as somewhat believable, but now its just getting ridiculously stupid. Good for a laugh though. Although if it's by some minute chance serious.. and :'(

 

[HAL9000]

Toyota: making it stop because the piece of shit automatic transmission doesn't work

about the weight thing:
Toyota Camry - 33mpg highway - 3263 pound car
Toyota Corolla - 35mpg highway - 2734 pound car

Oh noes!!! Adding 500 pounds of weight to the car drops the gas mileage by almost 6%!!! Shit! (35-33)/35 * 100 = 5.7%

What? Those are different cars...?

 

[LTC8K6]

This is also what you get when you think spinning the tires like mad is the way to drive in the snow.

 

[Eli]

Toyota, overall, makes excellent automatic transmissions. On par with GM.

I glanced through the thread, and I really don't mean to flame you even though it seems like the popular thing to do, but you have some pretty wild conceptualizations of how things work. No offense, but they appear to be largely incorrect.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Yep. The Ford Tempo did that as well. Everyone I knew said that's just the way automatics drive.

The only automatics I know of that don't drive like that are my parents boat cars from the 80s. They had V8 engines with no power but ungodly amounts of torque.

You and everyone you "talked to" don't know crap about cars.
An automatic transmission doesn't shift 20 times a minute unless you are driving like a complete retard or something is wrong to begin with.

 

[ShawnD1]

My old car (98 malibu) didn't have that problem.. neither does my brothers car, parents cars, or my current car.

Oddly i've actually never had that problem with any automatic. Perhaps the problem is the driver :thumbsup:

Seems like a pretty standard problem. Google for "transmission gear hunting" and see how many trillions of results it finds. Lots of them almost look like they were written by me.... if I had a better job and drove more expensive vehicles :hmm:


http://forums.trucktrend.com/70/785...orqshift-transmission-gear-hunting/index.html

We recently purchased a 2009 F350 V-10 with the Torqshift automatic transmission and when pulling our fifth wheel travel trailer in tow/haul mode the transmission shifts into overdrive and the torque-converter clutch locks up. When we come to even a small hill the torque-converter clutch will unlock and then lock back up again after cresting the hill. Sometimes the transmission also shifts down into 4th (1:1) then back to overdrive and again the torque-converter clutch locks up until the next small incline. The transmission shifting is very sensitive to even a small power increase and will start shifting with only about 30% power. This constant shifting will drive a person nuts, if you pay any attention to it. According to Ford this is normal operation

lol. I guess Ford and Toyota are the same trash. Maybe the two companies are having a bet to see which transmissions can have more slip and burn up more ATF in the least amount of time.


http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-for...n-poor-driveability-always-hunting-gears.html

I recently purchased a new 2007 [BMW] X3 3.0, xDrive, 6-speed automatic transmission. I’ve only driven it ~500 miles. I love the car, but, to me, the transmission is very difficult to deal with at low speeds. When accelerating or decelerating, the car is balky, surges, and seems to be ‘hunting’ for the right gear. I have two other BMW’s – a 2002 530i with 5-speed auto trans, and a 2003 M3 with 6-spd manual, so I’m familiar with BMW’s. It’s so bad, that I need to drive in the Sport Shift ‘semi-manual’ mode to enjoy the X3.

Remember the thread about the Honda Fit and I said the OP should make sure the car has lockable gears? This is why. Automatics drive like total shit otherwise.


http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...03-2008-5eat-severe-gear-hunting-problem.html

I have had this problem since day one. My tranny hunts on most inclines when I have the cruise control set and going at 70-75mph. The shift frequency is fast....it would start by shifting down to 4, then back to 5 without delay, then back to 4. On a small hill lasting no more than 30 seconds, my tranny would shift like 15 times.

Hey that sounds like Shawn's car. If I didn't know better, I'd say that all automatics drive like this and burning the ATF as well as the clutches is part of the game.

 

[yh125d]

Lets call in some korean engineers to fix this.


Also, have you inflated to max sidewall yet?

 

[LTC8K6]

Yep. The Ford Tempo did that as well. Everyone I knew said that's just the way automatics drive.

The only automatics I know of that don't drive like that are my parents boat cars from the 80s. They had V8 engines with no power but ungodly amounts of torque.

I've driven lots of autos, and never heard of such a thing. Including two different model years of Ford Tempos. Neither shifted that way. A 1984 and a 1991.

I have always owned and driven autos, except for the time I was in the Army, and no auto transmission ever acted the way you describe.

I currently still own a 1995 Tauris 3.8L with less than 60K on it. It doesn't shift the way you describe.

If I had a car that shifted the way you describe, it would be at the dealer getting repaired.

If your Corolla's auto was really shifting 20 times a minute, then it was broken.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Well you had better hope that the clutch in your automatic transmission hasn't failed, along with your cold engine.

 

[ShawnD1]

Toyota, overall, makes excellent automatic transmissions. On par with GM.

I glanced through the thread, and I really don't mean to flame you even though it seems like the popular thing to do, but you have some pretty wild conceptualizations of how things work. No offense, but they appear to be largely incorrect.

ok fine I'll stop trolling and trying to anger people.

I'll update this thread after I take the car in and get an assessment done. It's probably something simple like changing the ATF. What's weird is that I took the dipstick out yesterday and right on the handle of the dipstick it clearly says that the ATF should never need to be changed. That seems like a very strange thing for a company to say. Around the AT Garage it's assumed that people change the ATF every once in a while.

 

[LTC8K6]

Seems like a pretty standard problem. Google for "transmission gear hunting" and see how many trillions of results it finds. Lots of them almost look like they were written by me.... if I had a better job and drove more expensive vehicles :hmm:


http://forums.trucktrend.com/70/785...orqshift-transmission-gear-hunting/index.html

lol. I guess Ford and Toyota are the same trash. Maybe the two companies are having a bet to see which transmissions can have more slip and burn up more ATF in the least amount of time.


http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-for...n-poor-driveability-always-hunting-gears.html

Remember the thread about the Honda Fit and I said the OP should make sure the car has lockable gears? This is why. Automatics drive like total shit otherwise.


http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...03-2008-5eat-severe-gear-hunting-problem.html

Hey that sounds like Shawn's car. If I didn't know better, I'd say that all automatics drive like this and burning the ATF as well as the clutches is part of the game.

Tow/Haul mode locks out overdrive, so something is wrong with the story about the F150.

The others may have needed software updates or they may have needed to lock out overdrive. Typically the owner's manual tells you that if the terrain is causing gear hunting, you should lock out overdrive to prevent gear hunting.

Also, don't confuse torque converter locking and unlocking with shifting.

If you don't know how to drive, stay on the porch.